Cousins to the Lions: Mick McGuane claim on Sport 927

[bigcarl]

Honestly why would he go to a club that hasnt even started talking to him 2-3 weeks out from drafts. Lyon and the boys have done everything to get him here,had dinners and meetings. He has been seen out with some of our players and Nixon has applauded us in our dealings with him..

and we are the club with the detailed plan to mentor and support him.

... aren't we?

[markp]

Voss will be the next Tim Watson.

I don't believe so.

Even if Voss has the tactical capacity of a moth, he will still be a much better coach than Watson.

Just look at how they handle people. Voss is a leader of men, and his stirring speech for Harves at the Brownlow this year is just a snippet of that.

Watson, on the other hand, should not be on a morning show unless his secret plan is to make everyone to fall asleep at the wheel on the way to work.

As for Ben, if he wants to go to the lions, then good luck to him. A partnership between player and team is two way.

I actually thought his Harvey speech at the Brownlow was pretty bad, he looked very uncomfortable and seems to have a fairly limited vocabulary.

I'll be gob-smacked if he (or anyone) can make a go of it in an caper that gets more complex and demanding every year, without serving an apprenticeship first.

Tony Shaw was a leader of men too.... counted for little.

But regardless of all that, the uncertainty alone of a learner coach would have be a big negative in the pitch for Couisins.

[SainterK]

Voss will be the next Tim Watson.

I don't believe so.

Even if Voss has the tactical capacity of a moth, he will still be a much better coach than Watson.

Just look at how they handle people. Voss is a leader of men, and his stirring speech for Harves at the Brownlow this year is just a snippet of that.

Watson, on the other hand, should not be on a morning show unless his secret plan is to make everyone to fall asleep at the wheel on the way to work.

As for Ben, if he wants to go to the lions, then good luck to him. A partnership between player and team is two way.

I actually thought his Harvey speech at the Brownlow was pretty bad, he looked very uncomfortable and seems to have a fairly limited vocabulary.

I'll be gob-smacked if he (or anyone) can make a go of it in an caper that gets more complex and demanding every year, without serving an apprenticeship first.

Tony Shaw was a leader of men too.... counted for little.

But regardless of all that, the uncertainty alone of a learner coach would have be a big negative in the pitch for Couisins.

I disagree about his looking uncomfortable, IMO he seems to love the limelight. I really fail to see what a vocabulary has to do with it, he will either be able to motivate his players or not...

[markp]

Voss will be the next Tim Watson.

I don't believe so.

Even if Voss has the tactical capacity of a moth, he will still be a much better coach than Watson.

Just look at how they handle people. Voss is a leader of men, and his stirring speech for Harves at the Brownlow this year is just a snippet of that.

Watson, on the other hand, should not be on a morning show unless his secret plan is to make everyone to fall asleep at the wheel on the way to work.

As for Ben, if he wants to go to the lions, then good luck to him. A partnership between player and team is two way.

I actually thought his Harvey speech at the Brownlow was pretty bad, he looked very uncomfortable and seems to have a fairly limited vocabulary.

I'll be gob-smacked if he (or anyone) can make a go of it in an caper that gets more complex and demanding every year, without serving an apprenticeship first.

Tony Shaw was a leader of men too.... counted for little.

But regardless of all that, the uncertainty alone of a learner coach would have be a big negative in the pitch for Couisins.

I disagree about his looking uncomfortable, IMO he seems to love the limelight. I really fail to see what a vocabulary has to do with it, he will either be able to motivate his players or not...

I was referring to his speech at the Brownlow, obviously no-one should take that as an indication of his potential coaching ability.

[battye]

Similar to Perth AFL is not big and he would escape the lime light for sure, concentrate on his football career rather than dealing with the media and fanatical fans..

Yeah, it's virtually impossible for AFL to get a mention in the paper ahead of other Perth sports like rugby, soccer, darts, etc. Cousins never even rated a mention in the paper, in fact I had to go on to Wikipedia when I saw this thread to find out who he was.







How could you think for one second AFL is not big in Perth? I'll hazard a guess that it's bigger in Perth than Melbourne because there are just the two teams, Freo and West Coast, who are both very well represented in the media.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Voss will be the next Tim Watson.

I don't believe so.


...

...

I'll be gob-smacked if he (or anyone) can make a go of it in an caper that gets more complex and demanding every year, without serving an apprenticeship first.

Tony Shaw was a leader of men too.... counted for little.

...quote]

I disagree about his looking uncomfortable, IMO he seems to love the limelight. I really fail to see what a vocabulary has to do with it, he will either be able to motivate his players or not...

I was referring to his speech at the Brownlow, obviously no-one should take that as an indication of his potential coaching ability.

I think it would be fascinating to be a bug on the wall during a Cousins/Voss recruitment interview. It would almost definately flow both ways, as Cousins would need to resolve the very issues that are speculated on in this thread.

I'm not sure how Voss will go (I've certainly trotted out the Timmy Watson comparison a few times - much safer to predict failure than success), the thing that really shocks me about the hiring is that it flies in the face of most recent developments at AFL coaching level. The story seems to run that Voss was offered the job as the result of a handshake agreement that he had with the Lions that he'd be the next coach; he'd taken the role at WCE as part of an "apprenticeship".

It surprises me that the Lions AND Voss both decided the "apprenticeship" wasn't necessary. Essentially, Voss enters the coaching arena as a great unknown. He's now coaching players who were teammates not long before (and the only example I can think of for this in recent times is Roos - a success, I don't know if Worsfold coached any ex-teammates, but he'd also have to be considered a success, similarly don't know about Laidley who has a more mixed resume), with only a smattering on his resume that doesn't involve being a player or commentator.

His assistants have more coaching experience than he does.

His skills as a tactician, as a motivator (and motivating from the sidelines is different to leading on the field), as a list manager, as a long term strategic thinker are all unknowns, not just to us, not just to the Lions, but to himself.

Clearly he has convinced himself - and that's a start, if unsurprising - and the Lions. If he can convince Cousins, it might be a signal that he's got some of the skills necessary to the job. Similarly, if he simply drafts Cousins without much consultation, it may demonstrate him to be autocratic (with all the benefits and hindrances that come with that).

All we can say for sure is that Voss represents to the Cousins saga much what he does to the AFL coaching profession - a wildcard.

[Richter]

Why all the insecurity? We'll survive without him. Anyone would think we were talking about Judd.

Absolutely. I'd love to get Cousins. But even if we do get him, we are hardly a shoe-in for a flag, and without him we still have hope.

As I've argued before I look for every advantage the club can get - undoubtedly having him in the team would bolster the midfield. So we should push hard for him - AS WE ARE DOING.

But if we fail to land him - and we are NOT in the boxseat due to the draft order.... then s**t happens. We wear it and the world still turns........ We have still played in 3 prelims in the last 5 years and we will challenge again next year without him.....

[SainterK]

Voss will be the next Tim Watson.

I don't believe so.

Even if Voss has the tactical capacity of a moth, he will still be a much better coach than Watson.

Just look at how they handle people. Voss is a leader of men, and his stirring speech for Harves at the Brownlow this year is just a snippet of that.

Watson, on the other hand, should not be on a morning show unless his secret plan is to make everyone to fall asleep at the wheel on the way to work.

As for Ben, if he wants to go to the lions, then good luck to him. A partnership between player and team is two way.

I actually thought his Harvey speech at the Brownlow was pretty bad, he looked very uncomfortable and seems to have a fairly limited vocabulary.

I'll be gob-smacked if he (or anyone) can make a go of it in an caper that gets more complex and demanding every year, without serving an apprenticeship first.

Tony Shaw was a leader of men too.... counted for little.

But regardless of all that, the uncertainty alone of a learner coach would have be a big negative in the pitch for Couisins.

I disagree about his looking uncomfortable, IMO he seems to love the limelight. I really fail to see what a vocabulary has to do with it, he will either be able to motivate his players or not...

I was referring to his speech at the Brownlow, obviously no-one should take that as an indication of his potential coaching ability.

Sorry, I thought you were being general...

[sunsaint]

Why all the insecurity? We'll survive without him. Anyone would think we were talking about Judd.

snip.

But if we fail to land him - and we are NOT in the boxseat due to the draft order.... then s**t happens. We wear it and the world still turns........ We have still played in 3 prelims in the last 5 years and we will challenge again next year without him.....

and this year will be the first without Harvey...there is noone on our current list that will fill his boots, & if we want to improve on prelims we must get cuz.
However I stated in an earlier thread I think Brisbane are firming as big favourites for so many reasons.
- they can offer more with their salary cap, & obviously have higher picks than us
- QLD media are more focused on the broncos getting pissed at night clubs than afl players.
- it will be a marketing coup the lions need
- climate is very similar to perth
- SURFING, gold coast etc, [/u]

[uncle joe]

3 prelims in the last 5 years ..... no grand finals = not bloody good enough !!!!!

That's been the trouble with this club for years . . . .too many people are happy to go along just making the finals . Not enough care to want to actually WIN something .

That's why the trophy cabinet is as bare as a school hat stand in the holidays !!!

[bozza1980]

3 prelims in the last 5 years ..... no grand finals = not bloody good enough !!!!!

That's been the trouble with this club for years . . . .too many people are happy to go along just making the finals . Not enough care to want to actually WIN something .

That's why the trophy cabinet is as bare as a school hat stand in the holidays !!!

It is complete rubbish to say that our club has only won one premiership because our fans seem happy with near enough.

Do you really think players like Harvey, Burke, Winmar, Loewe, Barker etc were happy they didn't play in a premiership because the St Kilda fans were happy that they got close occasionally??

On the flip side has the Richmond culture of eating there own gotten them any closer to a flag since they last saluted in 1980??

We sometimes overestimate our affect or otherwise on the results on the park each Saturday. Whether our supporters were happy or otherwise with a prelim final berth this year doesn't change the fact that our players are filthy that they got blown away in the season's penultimate round. At the end of the day, they play footy to win premierships and that doesn't change with the supporters expectations.

[ThePunter]

Voss delivered a stirring speech? I thought it was embarrassing. Given I am an oratorical snob, but I think he can hardly put two words together. His insight during Channel 10 telecasts was average at best.

Compare him to Buckley. He was a revelation on Channel 7 this year. He provided useful insight, stuff the average punter may not have known. He will make a great coach one day, because you won't be thinking "this bloke can hardly talk".

Also, Voss seems to take his own counsel a little too often. He's too much of a my-way-or-the-highway kind of guy. I don't think he tolerates difference enough. He'll crash or crash through as a coach.

Don't get me wrong - I loved Voss the player. I have him #1 among those great midfielders of the 90s and early 00s. But I don't expect any great things from Voss the coach.

Oh, BTW, Cousins is coming.

[Cro]

but in terms of environment Brisbane wouldn't be too bad for Ben. Similar to Perth AFL is not big and he would escape the lime light for sure, concentrate on his football career rather than dealing with the media and fanatical fans..

Just had to point out how wrong this statement is..Don't know if you've noticed.. but AFL is huge in WA, heaps of media and fans, less teams. He had no where to hide.
At least in Vic there will always be other stories to keep some attention off him, unless of course he is making stories.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

...rather than dealing with the media and fanatical fans..

Are there any other type of fans??

[SainterK]

but in terms of environment Brisbane wouldn't be too bad for Ben. Similar to Perth AFL is not big and he would escape the lime light for sure, concentrate on his football career rather than dealing with the media and fanatical fans..

Just had to point out how wrong this statement is..Don't know if you've noticed.. but AFL is huge in WA, heaps of media and fans, less teams. He had no where to hide.
At least in Vic there will always be other stories to keep some attention off him, unless of course he is making stories.

We are talking about Ben Cousins here, the reality is that he is the lime light....

[st.byron]

Similar to Perth AFL is not big and he would escape the lime light for sure, concentrate on his football career rather than dealing with the media and fanatical fans..

Yeah, it's virtually impossible for AFL to get a mention in the paper ahead of other Perth sports like rugby, soccer, darts, etc. Cousins never even rated a mention in the paper, in fact I had to go on to Wikipedia when I saw this thread to find out who he was.

How could you think for one second AFL is not big in Perth? I'll hazard a guess that it's bigger in Perth than Melbourne because there are just the two teams, Freo and West Coast, who are both very well represented in the media.

You're on the money Battye. Maybe not bigger than it is in Melbourne, but it's definitely the #1 sport in WA by the length of the nullarbor. Only having two teams and it being so isolated makes it a total fishbowl of a place. They live and breathe everything that the Weagles and to a leser extent the Shockers, do.
Newspapers and TV give blanket coverage to WA teams and interstate teams rate a mention only when playing the WA teams. You're guaranteed to have an Eagles or Dockers, or both, photo in the West Australian every single day of the season. No exagerration.
TV news sport in season is nearly always headed by the Eagles or Dockers. Almost always. You don't really understand how over the top it is until you live here. A more one-eyed, blindly parochial, chip on the shoulder mob you'll struggle to find.

[st_nick]

It will probably come down to money when the crunch comes . It usually does , and I wouldn't have Cousins marked as having any special loyalty to us .

He has to name his price , and if Brisbane want him , and match what he wants , they have an earlier pick than us , and will get him .

He's 30 , hasn't played any football for a long time , and has just come off an addiction problem , (which must have taken some toll on his body ) .

Not so sure whether he signs with us matters much anyway .

I hardly think he's in any sort of position to name his price or terms. Whoever picks him up is throwing him a lifeline and I would think he should be thankful for pretty much whatever is offered to him.

[WayneJudson42]

Voss delivered a stirring speech? I thought it was embarrassing. Given I am an oratorical snob, but I think he can hardly put two words together. His insight during Channel 10 telecasts was average at best.

Compare him to Buckley. He was a revelation on Channel 7 this year. He provided useful insight, stuff the average punter may not have known. He will make a great coach one day, because you won't be thinking "this bloke can hardly talk".

Also, Voss seems to take his own counsel a little too often. He's too much of a my-way-or-the-highway kind of guy. I don't think he tolerates difference enough. He'll crash or crash through as a coach.

Don't get me wrong - I loved Voss the player. I have him #1 among those great midfielders of the 90s and early 00s. But I don't expect any great things from Voss the coach.

Oh, BTW, Cousins is coming.

I agree. It was a passionless repeat of an article he published in The Age a few weeks before. He struggles with the auto-cue.

Hird or Bucks would have done a better job IMHO. Or even Stewie Loewe.

[Pilgram]

"... and so, with this thought, I simply conclude, that Robert Harvey, was one of the toughest, and hardest, most single- minded footballers to have ever individually laced-on a boot...
.... and I'm Michael Voss!"

[Little Dozer]

Voss will be the next Tim Watson.

Just look at how they handle people. Voss is a leader of men, and his stirring speech for Harves at the Brownlow this year is just a snippet of that.

Stirring speech! That was the most cringeworthy piece of drivel seen in many a long year. Utterly unwatchable and embarassing. Voss was a great footballer no doubt about it, however, listening to the rubbish he came up with during his commentary stint, and his comments as Brisbane coach are that off an absolute fool. The bad news bears are back!

[groupie1]

I think that's why we're making as much room in the salary cap as we can, so he can nominate terms that nobody else can match. It doesn't mean we have to pay him that, because it's the NOMINATED total that is included in the cap, not any payments under. Alternatively, we may front-end his contract, giving him a truck-load this year, but something reduced significantly next year (if he lasts).

No
You don't front-end a contract for someone who might very easily wander away from commitments, get caught doing something wrong, or at 30 after a year off.

[4ever_saint]

So we're supposed to believe that earlier in the week Voss said he hadnt even spoken to Cousins and now Cousins will definately be going to the Lions? I don't buy it.

[Mr Magic]

Mickey Mcguane has just stated on 927 Sport, that he has it on good authority that Ben Cousins' preferred choice is now the Lions.

Shattering news, hopefully the Saints can have another crack at changing his mind.

Given that the Lions have publicly declared they will not be taking Cousins and also given that it appears that Cousins never spoke to Voss or anybody else up there, it would seem this 'good authority' may well have been nothing more than 'hot air'.

But then again, Mickey has been known to follow quite a few 'bad tips' in his time, so why should we really be surprized?