Would Carroll Really be that bad?

[Batnoe]

At the start i was very against the fact that we would pick up Carrol

I think he is an arrogant prick and has no place at St.Kilda, however as a back up backmen he surely would bring something

with our delistings this year and our lack depth with the new kids coming through he will be used (as depth only) he will not be our number 1 defender (like he was at Melbourne which made him look terrible, much like if Harley was used as number 1) but he will be more than adequate when and if we have injuries. I guess in the best world, not using him would be superb.

Melbourne are really going for youth and will not play him even if they needed him. They would rather play their best forward in Miller as a CHB just to prove a point that they are rebuilding.

Carrol is 28- he has only played 7 years and IMO if he can get his mind on track and his body he could be an ok asset as he will be cheap and we will be the only club looking at picking him up. He could still have 4 years in him, Melbourne still have to pay out his contract so he wont cost us much at all just to have some depth if say Max gets injured or Maguire doesnt come up....

If you think about it... is he really a bad pick up at $100k a year? he isnt our number 1 defender so what has he cost us? He isnt taking up a spot for a kid as could a first year player be thrown into the deep end and hold a key position? i know we should not rely on on Carrol doing much but surely he is more value than a 19 year old, and besides if he does nothing we can delist him next year

I say pick up both Cousins and Carrol in PSD

use 5 picks in draft and use 2 PSD, pick up Cousins first and then Carroll second

[saintsRrising]

THOUGHT: With Carroll being delisted.....it may be why Howard was delisted...to make room.

[SaintBot]

Well there are quite a few journalist reporting that he will be training with us now. (Still no word from the club or Carroll confirming this.)

I agree that we have a need for both a young key defender for development and a more mature backup from the draft. In terms of the mature recruit it looks like it could be out of Carroll and Alex Silvangni.

I'd take Carroll over Silvangni at this stage only because of his AFL experience and therefor lower risk to use as a backup.

So yes, for bottom base payment recruiting Carroll may not be such a bad thing. Can't see him being too popular amongst the fans though.

[St Fidelius]

Firstly Batnoe...

Has or will Cousins nominate himself in the ND??


The HeraldSun has only mentioned him in the PSD, but has/will he nominate himself for the ND as well???

I suspect we may have delisted Howard for a extra pick in the ND in order to select BC in the ND....and maybe pick up Howard as a rookie??

Yes, speculation, buy why drop Howard now??

IMO, It is some way to try to get in front of Brisbane (even thou they still have an extra pick in the ND)

Oh...

No to Carroll IMO

[S.A Saint]

If he cleaned up his act and didn't act like a prick i wouldn't mind seeing him at the saints...and only to be used as said before if injuries occur...

if i was ross i would tell him to have a decent hair cut and shave before every game and training session... ohh and if he did fcuk up then let maxxy knock the s*** out of him and place him on long term injury list...

[vacuous space]

...as a back up backmen [Carroll] surely would bring something.

I just don't understand the need. It's a position we already have a fair bit of depth at. After Hudghton and Blake we have Maguire, Fisher, Gilbert, Gwilt and Allen. Gram and Raph Clarke have both played good games at key back as well. Chances are Carroll will spend most of his time at Sandy in 09. I think the club would be much better served giving the spot on the list to a developing player. IMO the fact we're even considering Carroll says our list management and recruiting has a long way to go.

I could understand if Carroll were a better player. However, while he's played some good games - particularly the first half of 06 - he's played a lot more subpar ones. It's not like he's played his entire career in a bad team either. He's inconsistent and unreliable with not a lot of upside. It wouldn't be a disaster if we recruited him, but I think we can do better.

[jays]

would be a great back up for max and if we get him cheap who cares

[bozza1980]

He'll be a handy pick up for Sandringham.

[Legendary]

If Maguire doesn't come good and Hudghton at 33 does a hammy ... who is our big backman?

A 28 yr old Carroll is capable at AFL level and can provide a big body and reasonable defensive skills ... would be great insurance on our list for a couple of years at low cost until we develop another young defender.

[Batnoe]

3rd tall fwd?

191cm and a lot of weight, he could play that big fwd bullocking role. Maybe it is Melbourne coaching staff not playing him where they should!!

[maverick]

...as a back up backmen [Carroll] surely would bring something.

I just don't understand the need. It's a position we already have a fair bit of depth at. After Hudghton and Blake we have Maguire, Fisher, Gilbert, Gwilt and Allen. Gram and Raph Clarke have both played good games at key back as well. Chances are Carroll will spend most of his time at Sandy in 09. I think the club would be much better served giving the spot on the list to a developing player. IMO the fact we're even considering Carroll says our list management and recruiting has a long way to go.

I could understand if Carroll were a better player. However, while he's played some good games - particularly the first half of 06 - he's played a lot more subpar ones. It's not like he's played his entire career in a bad team either. He's inconsistent and unreliable with not a lot of upside. It wouldn't be a disaster if we recruited him, but I think we can do better.

I can't believe anyone would think we had FB covered without Max, Max and Roo are the two players we cannot cover structure wise.

Playing S Fisher or Bj as KPP hurts us elsewhere too much...

Not a fan of Carroll but we have no depth with key backs none at all.

The list above is laughable, not top 4 quality whatsoever....

[barks4eva]

Yes Carroll would be a bad decision, someone should start a petition against this!

[Richter]

...as a back up backmen [Carroll] surely would bring something.

I just don't understand the need. It's a position we already have a fair bit of depth at. After Hudghton and Blake we have Maguire, Fisher, Gilbert, Gwilt and Allen. Gram and Raph Clarke have both played good games at key back as well. Chances are Carroll will spend most of his time at Sandy in 09. I think the club would be much better served giving the spot on the list to a developing player. IMO the fact we're even considering Carroll says our list management and recruiting has a long way to go.

Hudghton - 33 and with dodgy hamstrings.

Blake - yes, but he's also a back up tagging mid, ruck and all round utility

Maguire - doubt he'll ever be back

Fisher - yes, but better value as a rebounding back

Gilbert - carved up by Williams in the prlim, imagine would Fev, Buddy, Barry Hall, Brown etc. would do. A 3rd backman at best

Gwilt - yep, I agree - thought he did ok in '07 as a back

Allen - as a backman! Nil experience

Gram and Raph have never played good games as key backs - passable at best - neither is accountable enough for that role - anyway I expect Raph to be rebounding half back and Gram through the midfield more this year.

So we do have a problem at FB if Hudghton goes down..... QED

[mick13]

Max is our most important player, equally with Roo.

We lost to the Eagles when he didn't play.

Nuff said.

We need backup, and Carrol's a decent FB. If we get him for barely anything, I dont mind. And if he has no off field issues, that would be good.

[saintly_safes]

Havent seen or heard much about him so I carnt call it either way.I suppose it will come down to how much he wants & if we can afford him.

[Duggie1]

Ricky Nixon is his manager I believe. Would Ricky have our best interests at heart, and better still should he?

[TassieJones]

Cain Ackland kicked 7 goals on him in the VFL this year.

CAIN ACKLAND!

Speaking of VFL, he couldn't get a game at melbourne this year and was delisted by them!

MELBOURNE! The worst team in the league! We made top 4 god damn it and we're gonna pick up their rubbish!

He lost his place to Stefan Martin and Matthew Warnock!

WARNOCK AND MARTIN! Who are they I hear you ask? Well lets just say I'd be embarrassed if they took my spot in Triabunna U8's!

AND DID I MENTION CAIN ACKLAND!!!?? 7 GOALS! ACKLAND! VFL! ARRRRGH!!!

Case closed. Carrol is not a 'decent' defender, or a 'decent back-up' defender. He isn't a decent anything, we may as well play Milney at full back because he'd conceed as many goals. It doesn't even matter that he's a s*** bloke and a pisshead, he could have the personality of a teetotaller Robert Harvey for all I care and I'd still be against us picking him up because he is just that s***. The thought of us paying this man thousands of dollars to 'play' VFL for us is sickening. Shout everyone on the list a Big Mac with the money instead, it'd do us just as much good o our flag chances.

[SaintBot]

Ricky Nixon is his manager I believe. Would Ricky have our best interests at heart, and better still should he?

All these recent St Kilda, Ricky Nixon connections is starting to worry me.

It seemed that every second player on contract negotiations was a Nixon client. The four Irish boys who are to train with us, including exclusive use of Tommy Walsh and the other highly rated fellow - set up by Nixon. Along with Cousins and Carroll.

He seems to be taking a very large "market share" in at St Kilda.
Is it in St Kilda's best interest if we have one dominant player manager? Genuine question.

[Mr Magic]

Ricky Nixon is his manager I believe. Would Ricky have our best interests at heart, and better still should he?

All these recent St Kilda, Ricky Nixon connections is starting to worry me.

It seemed that every second player on contract negotiations was a Nixon client. The four Irish boys who are to train with us, including exclusive use of Tommy Walsh and the other highly rated fellow - set up by Nixon. Along with Cousins and Carroll.

He seems to be taking a very large "market share" in at St Kilda.
Is it in St Kilda's best interest if we have one dominant player manager? Genuine question.

Nixon's busines, Flying Start Promotions have a lot of players 'on their books', not just Saints ones.
The fact that 2 of his clients from other Clubs are being mentioned as possibly coming to St Kilda doesn't change the fact that they were his clients at other Clubs.

Like all big Management Companies he speaks to the best 30-40 possible draftees before the draft and tries to sign them up as clients. Normally players will tend to stay with their initial manger as long as they are getting good deals done for them.

I know that at the Saints he handles
Roo
NDS
X
Raph
Gram
Birss (now gone)

I would think that the other big Managers (Pickering, Craig Kelly etc) would probably have similar numbers of players under management at the Saints and the other Vic teams - I reckon locally based agents
would have bigger representation at teh interstate clubs.

[Eastern]

Yes Carroll would be a bad decision, someone should start a petition against this!

Yes. The petition could then be placed in the coaches box at the MCG before the Rd 22 game v Melbourne.

Even better if it was to be placed in the coaches box in the Southern Stand. I know someone who knows someone who knows some whinger who has experience at burgling into that particular box !!

[St Fidelius]

Yes Carroll would be a bad decision, someone should start a petition against this!

Yes. The petition could then be placed in the coaches box at the MCG before the Rd 22 game v Melbourne.

Even better if it was to be placed in the coaches box in the Southern Stand. I know someone who knows someone who knows some whinger who has experience at burgling into that particular box !!

Either that or just walk around Elsternwick Park with you petition, or maybe wonder over to that supposed 18 hole golf course with it...

He could also get Rix and Fergus Watts to help him out

[nicola69]

Cain Ackland kicked 7 goals on him in the VFL this year.

CAIN ACKLAND!

Speaking of VFL, he couldn't get a game at melbourne this year and was delisted by them!

MELBOURNE! The worst team in the league! We made top 4 god damn it and we're gonna pick up their rubbish!

He lost his place to Stefan Martin and Matthew Warnock!

WARNOCK AND MARTIN! Who are they I hear you ask? Well lets just say I'd be embarrassed if they took my spot in Triabunna U8's!

AND DID I MENTION CAIN ACKLAND!!!?? 7 GOALS! ACKLAND! VFL! ARRRRGH!!!

Case closed. Carrol is not a 'decent' defender, or a 'decent back-up' defender. He isn't a decent anything, we may as well play Milney at full back because he'd conceed as many goals. It doesn't even matter that he's a s*** bloke and a pisshead, he could have the personality of a teetotaller Robert Harvey for all I care and I'd still be against us picking him up because he is just that s***. The thought of us paying this man thousands of dollars to 'play' VFL for us is sickening. Shout everyone on the list a Big Mac with the money instead, it'd do us just as much good o our flag chances.

I was tossing up his merits. But now I've read your post, it's better that he's sent to the knackery. Anyone who has 7 goals kicked on him by Cain Ackland is s*** as a full-back

[WayneJudson42]

Cain Ackland kicked 7 goals on him in the VFL this year.

CAIN ACKLAND!

Speaking of VFL, he couldn't get a game at melbourne this year and was delisted by them!

MELBOURNE! The worst team in the league! We made top 4 god damn it and we're gonna pick up their rubbish!

He lost his place to Stefan Martin and Matthew Warnock!

WARNOCK AND MARTIN! Who are they I hear you ask? Well lets just say I'd be embarrassed if they took my spot in Triabunna U8's!

AND DID I MENTION CAIN ACKLAND!!!?? 7 GOALS! ACKLAND! VFL! ARRRRGH!!!

Case closed. Carrol is not a 'decent' defender, or a 'decent back-up' defender. He isn't a decent anything, we may as well play Milney at full back because he'd conceed as many goals. It doesn't even matter that he's a s*** bloke and a pisshead, he could have the personality of a teetotaller Robert Harvey for all I care and I'd still be against us picking him up because he is just that s***. The thought of us paying this man thousands of dollars to 'play' VFL for us is sickening. Shout everyone on the list a Big Mac with the money instead, it'd do us just as much good o our flag chances.

I was tossing up his merits. But now I've read your post, it's better that he's sent to the knackery. Anyone who has 7 goals kicked on him by Cain Ackland is s*** as a full-back

The guy had a bad year. does not mean he can't play.

I'd say we've had a few worse players in 2007.

[WayneJudson42]

Yes Carroll would be a bad decision, someone should start a petition against this!

Yes. The petition could then be placed in the coaches box at the MCG before the Rd 22 game v Melbourne.

Even better if it was to be placed in the coaches box in the Southern Stand. I know someone who knows someone who knows some whinger who has experience at burgling into that particular box !!

Either that or just walk around Elsternwick Park with you petition, or maybe wonder over to that supposed 18 hole golf course with it...

He could also get Rix and Fergus Watts to help him out

Yup, and then they can go closer to the City... ummm.. the Junction Oval and get some more sigs.

Hang on, isn't that where Melbourne train?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

...as a back up backmen [Carroll] surely would bring something.

I just don't understand the need. It's a position we already have a fair bit of depth at. After Hudghton and Blake we have Maguire, Fisher, Gilbert, Gwilt and Allen. Gram and Raph Clarke have both played good games at key back as well. Chances are Carroll will spend most of his time at Sandy in 09. I think the club would be much better served giving the spot on the list to a developing player. IMO the fact we're even considering Carroll says our list management and recruiting has a long way to go.

I could understand if Carroll were a better player. However, while he's played some good games - particularly the first half of 06 - he's played a lot more subpar ones. It's not like he's played his entire career in a bad team either. He's inconsistent and unreliable with not a lot of upside. It wouldn't be a disaster if we recruited him, but I think we can do better.

I can't believe anyone would think we had FB covered without Max, Max and Roo are the two players we cannot cover structure wise.

Playing S Fisher or Bj as KPP hurts us elsewhere too much...

Not a fan of Carroll but we have no depth with key backs none at all.

The list above is laughable, not top 4 quality whatsoever....

The Saints don't have FB covered without Max whether they pick up Carroll or not. Quite simply, players like Max Hudghton are some of the most difficult to replace (2nd only to the superstars of the league).

For a brief period 2 years ago, Carroll looked like he was going to make his detractors eat their words, but he faded. Imagine what happens to St Kilda's backline if Max slips from being a top notch shutdown defender to just being an average one... whiel it isn't the whole story (or even the dominant one) that applies to Carroll and the Demons backline.

Jason Blake circa 2008 may not match up with Nathan Carroll circa '06, but I'd take him as a key back over Carroll at just about any other time - certainly now. Carroll's play in '07 as a FB was below that of Gwilt.

Carroll provides value in 2 areas - he takes the pressure off Maguire to get back quickly after his nightmare of injuries (and gives us the option to try Maguire as a leading forward too, though I'm certainly not predicting it), and he gives us another option to cover leading forwards with. At a stretch, we might use him if we want to run Sam Fisher through the midfield or elsewhere.

To take the tone of the post above - I can't believe anyone would think that the acquisition of Carroll would mean the Saints have FB covered without Max.