i think the original post was not having a go at brad howard or qriting him off. was simply asking the question. why 2 years and not 1 year? thats all.
kid could end up really good. just seems giving him until end of 09 would make sense. if he showed form and improvement we could have signed up for 2010 in mid 09. just seems odd. its not as if we will have othr clubs calling his agent every day offering him contracts.
so it sounds like he is a guy on the up. orginal post was just saying it seemed odd to do a 2 year contract for a bloke that hasnt played a game and has had a handful at vfl level.
in light of birss delisting seems weird. i hope hes awesome in 09. but even if he turns ou awesome it doesnt explain a 2 year contract. they seem to do funny things sometimes. i guess its performance based with a low base salary so probably does not mean much anyway.
Brad Howard...
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Con Gorozidis
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I was one of those complaining 66 but it had nothing to do with the player..my beef was if he was a smokie why would we have picked him at where JB rated him (27). Surely we could have got someone he rated 28 and the chances of getting Howard at a later pick would have been good.saint66au wrote:I was on here when he was selected in the draft
The moaning and groaning from a couple of the "I know better than the recruiting Dept" types was shocking
For that reason alone I hope he kicks ass in 2009
If you missed him so what you get a guy you rated 28 instead of 27, but if you did get him later u have a guy u rated 27 and the bonus of Howard at the later pick - 2 for the price of 1
This is what pssed me off..I was backed by the few with a brain all the others did not understand....
Once again it had nothing to do with the player, I'm like u and too hope he kicks ass....
At the time I said "hope our recruiting staff did not gamble because probabilities is not their forte".
How you going Joffa (my biggest critic at the time)?
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St Fidelius
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Yes, that was exactly my point...Con Gorozidis wrote:i think the original post was not having a go at brad howard or qriting him off. was simply asking the question. why 2 years and not 1 year? thats all.
I've got no beef with Howard, but I was just wondering why he was given a two year deal and whilst Eddy was given just the one year.
Eddy played 13 matches, whilst Howard didn't play.
It was just a question
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saintbrat
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there is no confirmation on how long Rob's contract is
of the three signed that day Milney, MG and Eddy only MG is alluded to- being 1 year
Milney's was alluded somewhere as being 2 years-
every possibility that Rob's would be the same-
Club- Archie has repeated several time lately on ask Archie that stating players contracts is NOt what they plan to do unless it suits all parties
of the three signed that day Milney, MG and Eddy only MG is alluded to- being 1 year
Milney's was alluded somewhere as being 2 years-
every possibility that Rob's would be the same-
Club- Archie has repeated several time lately on ask Archie that stating players contracts is NOt what they plan to do unless it suits all parties
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[quote="spiral2"][quote="saintsRrising"]I am not so worried where JB looked....it is just that way way too many of his selections have below average footskills.
Something in his latter years went wrong with his identification and screening process.[/quote]
yeah spot on, how did we get so many shite to average kicks?
still totally dumbfounds me how professional footballers who kick footballs thousands of times a week can struggle to kick with accuracy consistently.
I can understand some guys can kick further than others but surely you can learn accuracy...[/quote]
What worries me is how so many so called professional footballers can't kick well with BOTH feet.
They get paid typically $1000 per kick.
They get corralled by an opponent who knows which way they need to run around him because if they go around him the other way they can't straighten up and are forced to attempt to kick with the outside of their foot.
Even worse are the players on $500 per handpass, who handpass inside out because the can't hit a target with their other hand.
We regularly see our players stop running, turn 90 degrees, just so they can handpass with their preferred hand.
These guys should be kicking and punching balls with their wrong side 6 hours a day. Forget about boxing.
My 14 year old nephew plays soccer, he's good but will not make it to the A league.
He doesn't have a preferred foot he was drilled to kick with both from when he was old enough to kick.
The glass doors at the back of the house are ball proof.
They have to be. Whenever he's not doing schoolwork he is kicking a ball around inside and outside the house.
Our overpaid pisshead drunks should have no time left to go to a pub or take drugs and should be to exhausted if they do find time.
It is time they learnt to play football properly if they want their fat pay cheques.
The clubs total player payments should be and stay at 92.5% of the cap until players can disposed of the ball properly and accurately with BOTH feet and BOTH hands.
Something in his latter years went wrong with his identification and screening process.[/quote]
yeah spot on, how did we get so many shite to average kicks?
still totally dumbfounds me how professional footballers who kick footballs thousands of times a week can struggle to kick with accuracy consistently.
I can understand some guys can kick further than others but surely you can learn accuracy...[/quote]
What worries me is how so many so called professional footballers can't kick well with BOTH feet.
They get paid typically $1000 per kick.
They get corralled by an opponent who knows which way they need to run around him because if they go around him the other way they can't straighten up and are forced to attempt to kick with the outside of their foot.
Even worse are the players on $500 per handpass, who handpass inside out because the can't hit a target with their other hand.
We regularly see our players stop running, turn 90 degrees, just so they can handpass with their preferred hand.
These guys should be kicking and punching balls with their wrong side 6 hours a day. Forget about boxing.
My 14 year old nephew plays soccer, he's good but will not make it to the A league.
He doesn't have a preferred foot he was drilled to kick with both from when he was old enough to kick.
The glass doors at the back of the house are ball proof.
They have to be. Whenever he's not doing schoolwork he is kicking a ball around inside and outside the house.
Our overpaid pisshead drunks should have no time left to go to a pub or take drugs and should be to exhausted if they do find time.
It is time they learnt to play football properly if they want their fat pay cheques.
The clubs total player payments should be and stay at 92.5% of the cap until players can disposed of the ball properly and accurately with BOTH feet and BOTH hands.
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Eddy could be earning more in one year than Howard is earning during his two years as well.St Fidelius wrote:Yes, that was exactly my point...Con Gorozidis wrote:i think the original post was not having a go at brad howard or qriting him off. was simply asking the question. why 2 years and not 1 year? thats all.
I've got no beef with Howard, but I was just wondering why he was given a two year deal and whilst Eddy was given just the one year.
Eddy played 13 matches, whilst Howard didn't play.
It was just a question
Or perhaps he only wanted one year because he thinks he'll be a in a better position to negotiate a more lucrative long term deal at the end of next season.
We'll probably never know.
I'm going good.BallBanger wrote: How you going Joffa (my biggest critic at the time)?
Who was picked at 28 in that draft?
It wasn't the fact that Howard was picked at 27, it was the whining that was going on at the time, first off because we had chosen a Queenslander in Armitage, then the carry on when Howard was chosen was incredible.
JB may well have stuffed up, Howard may never make it, but I dont hear anyone complaining when he picked Joey at 37 and Sam Fisher at 53.
Hit and miss is the draft, but the instant experts were insufferable that morning.
I have little idea about draft picks, I dont see much TAC and the like, but I think it is poor form to dump on a 17 y.o. when they haven't even had a chance. You may think it is fine, but I dont.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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St Fidelius
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Joffa..joffaboy wrote:I'm going good.BallBanger wrote: How you going Joffa (my biggest critic at the time)?
Who was picked at 28 in that draft?
It wasn't the fact that Howard was picked at 27, it was the whining that was going on at the time, first off because we had chosen a Queenslander in Armitage, then the carry on when Howard was chosen was incredible.
JB may well have stuffed up, Howard may never make it, but I dont hear anyone complaining when he picked Joey at 37 and Sam Fisher at 53.
Hit and miss is the draft, but the instant experts were insufferable that morning.
I have little idea about draft picks, I dont see much TAC and the like, but I think it is poor form to dump on a 17 y.o. when they haven't even had a chance. You may think it is fine, but I dont.
All I know is that Reimers, Kurt Tippett, Josh Hill Alwyn Davey and Justin Westoff were picked after Howard....
and all have played more games...
again hindsight is fine but you have to mix that with foresight IMO...
Howard may well have been around at our next selection, but a second round pick should not be a "smokey" IMO...
Unless the Club has some "good oil" on the player...
But to date he has played just the two matches and did not play this year...
Time will tell...
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evertonfc
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I criticised the Howard decision at the time knowing there were still reasonable players in that draft who I felt we overlooked.
That's why I was critical. I'd give my left nut for him to become a hard-running, ball-winning midfielder, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Let's hope I'm very wrong.
That's why I was critical. I'd give my left nut for him to become a hard-running, ball-winning midfielder, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Let's hope I'm very wrong.
Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.
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MCG-Unit
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I also complained about the selection at the time - nothing against Howard - but for taking a project player at such a high pick, when there were more highly rated players available IMO
They could have taken him with the last ND pick or as a rookie
Anyway, I hope he plays 100 games
They could have taken him with the last ND pick or as a rookie
Anyway, I hope he plays 100 games
Last edited by MCG-Unit on Mon 10 Nov 2008 1:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Teflon
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I have a fundamental issue with selecting athletes over footballers......Howard can run.....so can Clint Jones.......Id really like to see someone who can get their own the ball AND hit a target.....IMHO THATS the skill we have lacked at St Kilda for some time.
Why do sides only bother to squash Dal Santo?
He hurts you by foot.
Lenny doesnt, Joey hit/miss, Ball bottom of pack, Gram (who knows whats coming off his boot to be honest), Sam Fisher? still a backman atm.......
In time Goddard will become their focus....he hurts sides by foot and is a penetrating kick.....just hope he can win enough of the footy, become elite runner, understand the defensive side of his game to become elite mid.
Theres a reason we looked so dangerous in 97 with a dead eye dick in Aussie Jones running off half back...it wasnt his toughness......it was his delivery.
Please look to footskills/decision making as a first followed by pace /athlete stuff.
Why do sides only bother to squash Dal Santo?
He hurts you by foot.
Lenny doesnt, Joey hit/miss, Ball bottom of pack, Gram (who knows whats coming off his boot to be honest), Sam Fisher? still a backman atm.......
In time Goddard will become their focus....he hurts sides by foot and is a penetrating kick.....just hope he can win enough of the footy, become elite runner, understand the defensive side of his game to become elite mid.
Theres a reason we looked so dangerous in 97 with a dead eye dick in Aussie Jones running off half back...it wasnt his toughness......it was his delivery.
Please look to footskills/decision making as a first followed by pace /athlete stuff.
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the shadow
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Brad Howard...
I'd like to clear up something about Brad Howard. He wasn't a "smokey", as many people keep asserting on this forum. He had attracted the interest of a number of clubs and JB had the mail that he would be picked up late 2nd/early 3rd round.
He came highly recommended and had been playing senior football in Queensland, which probably stood him in better staid than running around in a junior Qld. competition.
I believe it was Mark Browning (former Swan) who really backed him. As Browning was a highly respected former player, local coach and scout, I think there waas less risk in taking Howard than many think.
He was always going to be a "project player", in that his body and skills needed development, but the raw potential was there.
If you need a comparison, think back to a skinny kid we gave up an early pick for (I think it was no. 19 but if I'm mistaken, no doubt I'll be corrected). He came to us from Brisbane, via Gippsland and had shown very little in two years with the Lions. His first two years with us were less than spectacular, riddled by injury and lack of form.
I remember a few of us despairing at his selection and wondering why we took him at all. Many called for him to be cut. The following year, 2006, he suddenly appeared to have developed pace and an ability to kick long distances. His name is Jason Gram. One of our top-liners now.
I know Howard may still turn out to be a disappointment. Recruitment is as much an art as a science. So much can go wrong over the journey. I also know that Howard may not turn out to be as good as Jason Gram.
What I do know is that we have experienced and competent people making the calls. They see him every day, assess his potential on a number of things we never see, and they have seen fit to persevere with him for the next two years. He is still very young, both in age and a footballing sense.
Give the kid a break. Get behind him and you may be pleasantly surprised.
He came highly recommended and had been playing senior football in Queensland, which probably stood him in better staid than running around in a junior Qld. competition.
I believe it was Mark Browning (former Swan) who really backed him. As Browning was a highly respected former player, local coach and scout, I think there waas less risk in taking Howard than many think.
He was always going to be a "project player", in that his body and skills needed development, but the raw potential was there.
If you need a comparison, think back to a skinny kid we gave up an early pick for (I think it was no. 19 but if I'm mistaken, no doubt I'll be corrected). He came to us from Brisbane, via Gippsland and had shown very little in two years with the Lions. His first two years with us were less than spectacular, riddled by injury and lack of form.
I remember a few of us despairing at his selection and wondering why we took him at all. Many called for him to be cut. The following year, 2006, he suddenly appeared to have developed pace and an ability to kick long distances. His name is Jason Gram. One of our top-liners now.
I know Howard may still turn out to be a disappointment. Recruitment is as much an art as a science. So much can go wrong over the journey. I also know that Howard may not turn out to be as good as Jason Gram.
What I do know is that we have experienced and competent people making the calls. They see him every day, assess his potential on a number of things we never see, and they have seen fit to persevere with him for the next two years. He is still very young, both in age and a footballing sense.
Give the kid a break. Get behind him and you may be pleasantly surprised.
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saintsRrising
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Re: Brad Howard...
I am not sure on your source for Browning backing him...the shadow wrote:
I believe it was Mark Browning (former Swan) who really backed him. As Browning was a highly respected former player, local coach and scout, I think there waas less risk in taking Howard than many think.
.
But Gary Odgers the ex-Saint player and then Coach of Howard at Redlands was I believe the main guy pushing Howard's barrow..
http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/20 ... chance-fo/
Another who believes Howard will be heading south after today s draft is former St Kilda player Gary Odgers, who stumbled across the Toowoomba youngster while coaching Redlands this season.
Odgers has been singing the youngster s praises since.
"We'd heard about Brad, but he really came to notice when he played for Queensland Country this year," he said.
"Without wanting to be disrespectful to anyone else, he was the guy that really stood out and we encouraged him to test himself in the state league."
and in another article...
Redland coach Gary Odgers described Howard as "the complete package".
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I disagree, this is a perfectly good reason for your opinion. I too have the current opinion that he is not much good. I am happy enough though to give him another year and see what he can produce.Bernard Shakey wrote:Howard will never make it.
No reason for this statement, apart from what I have seen at St Kilda, Casey and training.
He is not up to it and should have been cut loose.
If he doesn't show anything this year though you'd have to say that he's beginning to live off borrowed time if he were to be kept on another year after that.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
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WE will decide who plays for this club... and the circumstances under which they play!tweedaletomanning wrote:No...I think he's john Howard's son...Moccha wrote:Isn't he Ron Howards son?
Interest rates will always be lower while St Kilda makes the finals.
Now, is the 2 year deal a "core" or "non-core" contract?
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.