Ben Cousins - Why Wouldn't We Want This?

[Saints Premiers 2008]

If he is still so good,
why does the club that knows the most about him,
the club that you could argue has a duty of care towards him,
why does that club TOTALLY DISOWN him ?

because the club wants to build a future away from the past, the past was a poor eagles (buzzword) culture...why would they go back to the future???

he will not be a part of their next premiership team

hopefully big benny c has cleaned himself up

[The Saintsational Man]

Do you expect his footspeed to improve now he is over 30 ?

No, not at all.

But.....his knowledge of the game would have matured though, as with many elite sportsman, once they get older they become much more wise and intune with their chosen sport.

[markp]

If he is still so good,
why does the club that knows the most about him,
the club that you could argue has a duty of care towards him,
why does that club TOTALLY DISOWN him ?

Don't you have ex-girlfriends that wont speak to you?!

Same thing.

[SENsei]

I'm worried what will happen should Cousins NOT come to St Kilda.

There will be some severely depressed people around here.

Like Carlton when they lost Goddard.

Could take years to get over the disappointment.

Anyway, if he comes, when he comes, if he doesn't...I wish him all the best in turning his life around. If it's at St Kilda, well and good. I'll support him to the hilt and hope his hammys stand up.

If it's elsewhere or not at all, I wish him the best. Everyone needs a second chance.

[Enrico_Misso]

Everyone needs a second chance.

Second ?????

[SENsei]

Everyone needs a second chance.

Second ?????

Whatever chance number. This is his second chance at football away from WA. That was what I meant.

Everyone deserves a chance Enrico, even you.

PS I am on record not wanting to recruit Cousins on football grounds. Nothing to do with off the field dealings. I have doubts on a 30yo coming back after 7 games in two seasons. If we pick him up, I hope to be proven wrong.

[Moccha]

Everyone needs a second chance.

Second ?????

Whatever chance number. This is his second chance at football away from WA. That was what I meant.

Everyone deserves a chance Enrico, even you.

PS I am on record not wanting to recruit Cousins on football grounds. Nothing to do with off the field dealings. I have doubts on a 30yo coming back after 7 games in two seasons. If we pick him up, I hope to be proven wrong.

What about Nathan Carroll. Does he deserve a 2nd chance?

[Batnoe]

i want him and i am getting moist thinking about seeing im play in the Red White and Black

I am a man and i am getting moist, serioulsy what type of oriface can go moist?!!!

[fingers]

i want him and i am getting moist thinking about seeing im play in the Red White and Black

I am a man and i am getting moist, serioulsy what type of oriface can go moist?!!!

Ok - first of all its "orifice" second of all - go take a shower.

[SENsei]

Everyone needs a second chance.

Second ?????

Whatever chance number. This is his second chance at football away from WA. That was what I meant.

Everyone deserves a chance Enrico, even you.

PS I am on record not wanting to recruit Cousins on football grounds. Nothing to do with off the field dealings. I have doubts on a 30yo coming back after 7 games in two seasons. If we pick him up, I hope to be proven wrong.

What about Nathan Carroll. Does he deserve a 2nd chance?

Sure he does. Doesn't have to be at St Kilda though. Carroll's second chance could be at VFL level.

Cousins can't play at any level at the moment.

Bit of a difference.

[SENsei]

i want him and i am getting moist thinking about seeing im play in the Red White and Black

I am a man and i am getting moist, serioulsy what type of oriface can go moist?!!!

I'm thinking you are drooling all over your keyboard.

[Teflon]

Do you expect his footspeed to improve now he is over 30 ?

Question is do you think he has to IMPROVE footspeed even at 30 to be in our top 3 mids at present?

I dont.

I think at 75% Cousins would be top 3 in our mids - hes more consistent than Dal, better than Montagna - only Ball/Hayes grunt make them remotely comparitive from a value perspective IMHO and even then Cousins ability to finish is much better.....

IF we get 15/16 games and some golden efforts in that this year with NO de-railments drug wise its a win.

[Cro]

I've just been given a Ben update of sorts.

A bloke I work with was at a function that Ben was MC'ing last night. Ben started with the joke "I'm sure most of you know who I am, if not, just watch crimestoppers"

Anyway the important bit! Apparently he looked thin, like too thin to be a tough midfielder. So he may have been working on his fitness but his muscle mass has gone down considerably. Obviously I didn't see this myself, but this guy does know footy, so it could be something to look out for. You can only put on so much weight over the pre season at his age. :/

[SENsei]

The only thing that tips the scales for me in favour of Ben Cousins is the opinion of the new development coach at Carlton.

"He could play for another 4 or 5 years".

If that could be guaranteed, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Where can I get a guarantee like that?

Am I asking too much?

[SAINT JUMP]

the opening sounds a bit smug. nothing to be proud of, what has happened him. dont think he, thinks hes done anything wrong. thats a worry.

[SAINT JUMP]

so what your saying with out the drugs, hes not as good a player.

[Batnoe]

so what your saying with out the drugs, hes not as good a player.

If you are referring to my statement, its not what i am implying

i am saying i would rather get caught with illicit drugs than performance drugs if i am in sport at the elite level


Marion Jones has been caught using steroids at the sydney olympics and is going to jail for 9 months, i bet if she was on speed... she wouldnt be going to jail for as long or even lose her medals as it doesnt enhance your performance

ben Cousins would be an athlete regardless, but how much better can one be if you use steroids and you are bigger than everyone else?

[Armoooo]

I was speaking to S.A Saint about this last night but I'll go into here aswell because I believe it is a valid point.

A lot of people are either
A) Expecting Cousins to come to us and be back at his brownlow form or
B) Come to us and be a shadow of his former self and be a waste of a pick.

My argument is that he doesn't need to be as good as he was a few years back he just needs to be a valuble contributor, the thing about Cousins is even with two years out of the game, he will get out number one tagger and he has the running abilities to be able to beat them. This then frees up Dal Santo, which means he will be marshaling a lot of our forward 50 entries which would lead to an improvement in output from both Riewoldt and Kosi (or whoever plays FF).

This domino effect would also see us win more clearences, which would put less pressure on our defense who I believe to have been the best performed in the whole league last season. Having less pressure on them and having the ball spend more time in the midfield or forward line also frees up Chips, Raph, Gram, Goddard, Gilbo et al to spend more time running through the midfield which would not only add some pace to our midfield but it would help us really grind down he oppositions midfielders, this could be potentially huge considering we will have had another pre-season under Misson and you could assume our fitness would go up a whole other level.

I was dead-set against getting Cousins at our club, but since reading that Harvey wants him here I've decided to change my tune, if a man who carried our club for 21 years thinks he has a place at our club, who are any of us to argue?...

The only problem with this scenario is it is the same one we have had for the past 5 years, we are unbeatable on paper but we struggle to put it into action...

If we got Cousins we would have the midfield to match the Hawthorns and Geelongs, but we just need to get it together!!

[Cro]

I've just been given a Ben update of sorts.

A bloke I work with was at a function that Ben was MC'ing last night. Ben started with the joke "I'm sure most of you know who I am, if not, just watch crimestoppers"

Anyway the important bit! Apparently he looked thin, like too thin to be a tough midfielder. So he may have been working on his fitness but his muscle mass has gone down considerably. Obviously I didn't see this myself, but this guy does know footy, so it could be something to look out for. You can only put on so much weight over the pre season at his age. :/

Speed masks steroids

i dont actually think Benny had a problem with speed but i think he didnt want to be caught with performance enhancing drugs hence why he took speed so his muscles looked natural

So would you prefer to be caught with steroids- performance enhancing drugs and never be able to play again or would you prefer to mask those steroids with an illicit drug?

So what makes you think he was on steroids?

All I've been told is he looks to thin to be a tough midfielder.

Also on the joke, he might not have opened with it, but it was one of the first things he said, again, not there, just had the info passed on to me.

[SENsei]

Interesting.

[Cro]

If he has lost weight it obviously means he is no longer on steriods and hence not needing to take speed to cover it up (which means he would be clean and can play again).... That is why i said he must have been on steroids in his peak as he was big and bulked up and took speed to cover that up!

He could also have stopped or lowered his weight training.

You may have correct info, I wouldn't have a clue. All I'm saying is he looked below a satisfactory size for a midfielder.

[markp]

I've just been given a Ben update of sorts.

A bloke I work with was at a function that Ben was MC'ing last night. Ben started with the joke "I'm sure most of you know who I am, if not, just watch crimestoppers"

Anyway the important bit! Apparently he looked thin, like too thin to be a tough midfielder. So he may have been working on his fitness but his muscle mass has gone down considerably. Obviously I didn't see this myself, but this guy does know footy, so it could be something to look out for. You can only put on so much weight over the pre season at his age. :/

deleted....

What a f***ing outrageous statement... should be deleted.

[SAINT JUMP]

to be quiet honest, im over all this bc stuff. been going on for 2 years now. i dont care anymore, things will take care, of themselves in the end.its his life, and its all up to him, what he does with it.

[SainterK]

There is a lot of "I thinks" and "don't you reckons" and "maybe" about this thread, truth is none of you really know...

[Batnoe]

It will be hard to find something saying directly that speed masks steroids as they dont want people to do that, they would much rather say that drugs can cover it up... they will not name the drug





Ben Johnson's personal physician today named eight substances that athletes are using routinely to hide the presence of anabolic steroids in their systems. A leading American expert in sports medicine said that current technology may not be sophisticated enough for laboratories to detect two of them.

Ben Johnson's personal physician today named eight substances that athletes are using routinely to hide the presence of anabolic steroids in their systems. A leading American expert in sports medicine said that current technology may not be sophisticated enough for laboratories to detect two of them.

In his third day of testimony before a Canadian government commission investigating the use of performance-enhancing drugs by athletes, Dr. George (Jamie) Astaphan said that the substances he mentioned, taken three to four days before a competition, would enable an athlete to pass any drug test without detection of the steroids. The substances work by delaying the release of traces of the steroid from the body, thus enabling the athlete to avoid a positive result in post-competition testing.

Astaphan also told the inquiry that laboratories have yet to develop a means to detect a ''group of dihydrotestosterone derivatives,'' which he said athletes used to enhance their performances.

If Astaphan's contentions are true, athletes intent on subverting the system may be much further ahead of drug testers than previously thought. Particularly Worrisome

Dr. Robert Voy, the former chief medical officer of the United States Olympic Committee, said from his clinic in Las Vegas, Nev., that two of the drugs Astaphan mentioned -Factrel and Pergonal - are particularly worrisome because they are forms of natural male hormones and, therefore, may be undetectable in lab tests.

''If they have gotten that sophisticated,'' Voy said, referring to the drug underground, ''we might be fighting a losing battle as far as testing is concerned.''

Voy was asked if these drugs could represent a major victory for drug-using athletes.

''They could be if they work,'' he said. Testing May Be Difficult

Dr. Donald Catlin, the director of the Los Angeles laboratory used by the U.S.O.C., agreed with Voy to a point.

''If it is a fact that they are agents that cut down on the excretion of steroids, yes,'' he said from Los Angeles. ''But from everything I know, they would have the opposite effect.''

''Either could be tested for,'' he added, ''but it would take some work. But I don't think there's going to be any demand to develop a test because there's no evidence that they work as blocking agents. Maybe Dr. Astaphan has done some studies.''

Voy said that the other drugs Astaphan mentioned - Uricovac, Uninorm, Desuric, Benzobromide, Anturan and one Astaphan called ''the golden boy of them all,'' Carinamide - work in a manner similar to a popular masking agent that drug testers began finding in 1987, Probenecid. By January 1988, Probenecid was placed on a list of banned substances by the International Olympic Committee. Well Known to Steroid Users

Voy said that Astaphan's claim that the dihydrotestosterone derivatives are undetectable ''is probably correct.''

''We've not found any,'' he said, ''and there's a whole list of them.''

All the drugs Astaphan named except for Factrel and Pergonal are well known to many steroid users. They are listed in The Underground Steroid Handbook II, a compendium of performance-enhancing drugs written by Dan Duchaine, who is serving a sentence in a California jail for his role in a steroid distribution ring. Astaphan Challenged

Later in his appearance before the inquiry, Astaphan found his credibility strongly challenged when Robert Armstrong, the inquiry's chief attorney, suggested that the doctor concealed the true identity of the steroids he was giving Johnson and other athletes.

Armstrong contended that Astaphan was actually supplying Johnson and the others with a substance that contained stanozolol, the steroid that was found in Johnson's urine at the Olympics in Seoul, South Korea.