Shane Birss delisting....

[groupie1]

I AGREE WITH YOU, SADLY, ON THIS:

He has averaged less than 0.5 goals, less than 14 possessions and less than 3 tackles per game. He does not win enough ball or make enough tackles to be an inside midfielder, but he is not truly fast enough or kick enough goals to be an effective outside midfielder or wingman. His disposal is reasonable, without being outstanding.

Fiora is faster, more damaging with the ball when in form, equally capable of kicking a goal (although his strike rate should be better) and is much better in the air. He had a shocking 2008, but is clearly (at least to my eyes) much more of an AFL standard player than is Birss.

Jones is a fairer comparison. I would rate Birss ahead of Jones in most areas except tackling and perhaps effort (and perhaps leg speed, although I've never been sure that Jones is really as fast as many people think: I'd love to see the results of some club tests). But Lyon sees a spot in his team for a less skilled hard-working tackler ahead of a relatively low output outside player. And I reckon he's right.


GOOD POINTS

HOWEVER, how do you compare Birss to L Fisher / Mcqualt

(Ignore this if those 2 had contract periods to run next year... which neither should have had)

[RBnW]

Remember he was picked up by Ken Sheldon in the trade week before Ross the boss was appointed as coach he was never a player that Ross the boss would have picked up and Drain was at the Dogs at that time and would have had something to do with him moving on.......
Not good enough to play finals and will not get picked up.....but not a bad VFL player.....
This will free up games for Stevens, Armo, Eddy and co has to be better for the club.......this is the right call.....

[saintly_safes]

Good to see a crap player get the boot, and it was a year late.

Your not Ross Lyon are you ?

[RBnW]

Good to see a crap player get the boot, and it was a year late.

Your not Ross Lyon are you ?

Are you Shane Briss...

[plugger66]

Remember he was picked up by Ken Sheldon in the trade week before Ross the boss was appointed as coach he was never a player that Ross the boss would have picked up and Drain was at the Dogs at that time and would have had something to do with him moving on.......
Not good enough to play finals and will not get picked up.....but not a bad VFL player.....
This will free up games for Stevens, Armo, Eddy and co has to be better for the club.......this is the right call.....

Can I ask why RL wouldnt pick up a player like Birss. His record so far suggests he will give players from other clubs another chance at the Saints.

[maverick]

Remember he was picked up by Ken Sheldon in the trade week before Ross the boss was appointed as coach he was never a player that Ross the boss would have picked up and Drain was at the Dogs at that time and would have had something to do with him moving on.......
Not good enough to play finals and will not get picked up.....but not a bad VFL player.....
This will free up games for Stevens, Armo, Eddy and co has to be better for the club.......this is the right call.....

Can I ask why RL wouldnt pick up a player like Birss. His record so far suggests he will give players from other clubs another chance at the Saints.

I thought he gave Birss a reasonable chance.
What's his best position?
Is he an inside mid, an outside mid?
Is he a mid at all or a defensive forward?
Can he play back?

Mini who is probably his closest comparison is a better tagger, harder at the ball and a better tackler. They probably get the ball the same amount of time, with Birss probably better skilled, although not much in it.

50/50 Mini or Birss I reckon, neither would have been a mistake IMO.

[plugger66]

Remember he was picked up by Ken Sheldon in the trade week before Ross the boss was appointed as coach he was never a player that Ross the boss would have picked up and Drain was at the Dogs at that time and would have had something to do with him moving on.......
Not good enough to play finals and will not get picked up.....but not a bad VFL player.....
This will free up games for Stevens, Armo, Eddy and co has to be better for the club.......this is the right call.....

Can I ask why RL wouldnt pick up a player like Birss. His record so far suggests he will give players from other clubs another chance at the Saints.

I thought he gave Birss a reasonable chance.
What's his best position?
Is he an inside mid, an outside mid?
Is he a mid at all or a defensive forward?
Can he play back?

Mini who is probably his closest comparison is a better tagger, harder at the ball and a better tackler. They probably get the ball the same amount of time, with Birss probably better skilled, although not much in it.

50/50 Mini or Birss I reckon, neither would have been a mistake IMO.

Easier to keep Mini as he isnt taking up a position on the main list where as Birss is.

[maverick]

Remember he was picked up by Ken Sheldon in the trade week before Ross the boss was appointed as coach he was never a player that Ross the boss would have picked up and Drain was at the Dogs at that time and would have had something to do with him moving on.......
Not good enough to play finals and will not get picked up.....but not a bad VFL player.....
This will free up games for Stevens, Armo, Eddy and co has to be better for the club.......this is the right call.....

Can I ask why RL wouldnt pick up a player like Birss. His record so far suggests he will give players from other clubs another chance at the Saints.

I thought he gave Birss a reasonable chance.
What's his best position?
Is he an inside mid, an outside mid?
Is he a mid at all or a defensive forward?
Can he play back?

Mini who is probably his closest comparison is a better tagger, harder at the ball and a better tackler. They probably get the ball the same amount of time, with Birss probably better skilled, although not much in it.

50/50 Mini or Birss I reckon, neither would have been a mistake IMO.

Easier to keep Mini as he isnt taking up a position on the main list where as Birss is.

Yeah maybe, but I thought Mini had to get upgraded or got cut, no more time on the rookie list????

[RBnW]

Remember he was picked up by Ken Sheldon in the trade week before Ross the boss was appointed as coach he was never a player that Ross the boss would have picked up and Drain was at the Dogs at that time and would have had something to do with him moving on.......
Not good enough to play finals and will not get picked up.....but not a bad VFL player.....
This will free up games for Stevens, Armo, Eddy and co has to be better for the club.......this is the right call.....

Can I ask why RL wouldnt pick up a player like Birss. His record so far suggests he will give players from other clubs another chance at the Saints.

I thought he gave Birss a reasonable chance.
What's his best position?
Is he an inside mid, an outside mid?
Is he a mid at all or a defensive forward?
Can he play back?

Mini who is probably his closest comparison is a better tagger, harder at the ball and a better tackler. They probably get the ball the same amount of time, with Birss probably better skilled, although not much in it.

50/50 Mini or Birss I reckon, neither would have been a mistake IMO.

Easier to keep Mini as he isnt taking up a position on the main list where as Birss is.

I think he did give him a chance but dont think he would have picked him up.....we needed and need run not more inside mids.....IMO....

[Gilbert=Legend]

Good to see a crap player get the boot, and it was a year late.

Your not Ross Lyon are you ?

If i were ross lyon, birss would never had played a game this year

[saintly_safes]

Good to see a crap player get the boot, and it was a year late.

Your not Ross Lyon are you ?

If i were ross lyon, birss would never had played a game this year

You must have been a gun in your day if you can bag Shane Birss. People love to ring up his stats as under performing , but they dont take into account how much game time he got.I thnk you will find that in 2008 that Birss was above the norm in possessions when he actually on the ground.

[saintspremiers]

I6t goes to show exactly how brutal the football industry is. Good Luck to him !!

Brutal or has RL just made a mistake?

I think the latter.

[remboy]

The decision to delist Birss didn't surprise me. It was quite easy to see during the year who Ross Lyon had time for and who he didn't simply by looking at the players who were selected each week.
That's not to say I agree with him but I think it was quite clear that the delisted players weren't part of RL's long term plans.

[saintly_safes]

The decision to delist Birss didn't surprise me. It was quite easy to see during the year who Ross Lyon had time for and who he didn't simply by looking at the players who were selected each week.
That's not to say I agree with him but I think it was quite clear that the delisted players weren't part of RL's long term plans.

I'm not suprised either just disapointed because I think that when he got his chance to impress he did pretty well but never seemed to get the credit for what he did. I suppose other people see the game different to me, & thats healthy for the game & the saints as well . What ever happens I would personally like to thank Shane for his work ethic & commitment to the club & all the best for what ever he tackle's in the future. Go Sainters

[Winmar]

He was unlucky... I would have kept him. They must be almost certain we will get Cuz...

Winmar's coming back? Yippee!

Birss was unlucky. He certainly wasn't the worst player in a St Kilda jumper this year. I can think of one in particular who stuffed up every time he touched it in the Collingwood final.

[MasonCJ2]

What does make me laugh is the odd post suggesting Birss did not pick up enough possessions. If you do the math on time on ground by possessions his average would be up there with Hayes. Obviously not a star, but please don't just use a straightforward stat to make the point that some people suggest they follow St Kilda but clearly don't watch too many games.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

What does make me laugh is the odd post suggesting Birss did not pick up enough possessions. If you do the math on time on ground by possessions his average would be up there with Hayes. Obviously not a star, but please don't just use a straightforward stat to make the point that some people suggest they follow St Kilda but clearly don't watch too many games.

I don't get why people are siting TOG stats with Birss. Going by herald sun, Birss averaged 82% TOG over 8 matches and Hayes averaged 77% over 24 matches... so if you do the math, his possessions would have been worse.

Birss actually had pretty good TOG in the matches he played. Ahead of Hayes, Ball, Harvey... not many AFL players go above the 85-90 range these days. 82% for a defensive forward is reasonable.

[Con Gorozidis]

Remember he was picked up by Ken Sheldon in the trade week before Ross the boss was appointed as coach he was never a player that Ross the boss would have picked up and Drain was at the Dogs at that time and would have had something to do with him moving on.......
Not good enough to play finals and will not get picked up.....but not a bad VFL player.....
This will free up games for Stevens, Armo, Eddy and co has to be better for the club.......this is the right call.....

Can I ask why RL wouldnt pick up a player like Birss. His record so far suggests he will give players from other clubs another chance at the Saints.

yeah. fair point. RL picked up charlie gardiner. i reckon some people bagging birss have never seen the guy play. i reckon he was ok. i know he is slow. but he was a fair player. always competitive. kept his feet. he was solid back up. seemed to be out of favur with the coach. but he did not do anything wrong. solid player who does not make mistakes. i think he was unlucky.. Fiora and leigh fisher certainly should have gone before him but were lucky to be kept because the saints were stuck with their contracts.

hope birss gets picked up. have to feel for the kid.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Remember he was picked up by Ken Sheldon in the trade week before Ross the boss was appointed as coach he was never a player that Ross the boss would have picked up and Drain was at the Dogs at that time and would have had something to do with him moving on.......
Not good enough to play finals and will not get picked up.....but not a bad VFL player.....
This will free up games for Stevens, Armo, Eddy and co has to be better for the club.......this is the right call.....

Can I ask why RL wouldnt pick up a player like Birss. His record so far suggests he will give players from other clubs another chance at the Saints.

yeah. fair point. RL picked up charlie gardiner. i reckon some people bagging birss have never seen the guy play. i reckon he was ok. i know he is slow. but he was a fair player. always competitive. kept his feet. he was solid back up. seemed to be out of favur with the coach. but he did not do anything wrong. solid player who does not make mistakes. i think he was unlucky.. Fiora and leigh fisher certainly should have gone before him but were lucky to be kept because the saints were stuck with their contracts.

hope birss gets picked up. have to feel for the kid.

Much as I feel for Birss, and for Attard, if/when Fisher goes at the end of next year, he'll be the one that I'll really think must feel unlucky.

He came back after nearly 2 years out, and looked like a star in the making through late '06 and then through early '07... but as the Ross Lyon defense has evolved, he's followed in the footsteps of Brett Voss and had not had the required skillset to contribute... or one that other teams sought enough to trade for.

I believe it's the '07 AFL prospectus that offers the advice to fantasty footy players that Fisher is "an emerging gun, get on him"... while after the first Hawthorn debacle of '07 we might have been nodding in agreement, I hope all here were off the bandwagon by the time this year started.

AFL's a tough game. Fisher had 10-15 games minimum far better than Birss best AFL game, and now looks pretty well done.

[bigcarl]

when Fisher goes at the end of next year, he'll be the one that I'll really think must feel unlucky. He came back after nearly 2 years out, and looked like a star in the making through late '06 and then through early '07.

agree. always thought he was okay.

reminded me of nathan burke a bit. nuggety and not afraid to put his body on the line. a good, solid type who i wouldn't write off just yet.

[jays]

cant believe he got dropped best player in seconds

[BAM! (shhhh)]

when Fisher goes at the end of next year, he'll be the one that I'll really think must feel unlucky. He came back after nearly 2 years out, and looked like a star in the making through late '06 and then through early '07.

agree. always thought he was okay.

reminded me of nathan burke a bit. nuggety and not afraid to put his body on the line. a good, solid type who i wouldn't write him off just yet.

Unfortunately for Fisher, the role in defense where he looked good seems to not exist anymore - taller, faster players are preferred: Dempster, Raph and Gilbert. Fisher's aerial capability and competent kicking are less important than the run and creativity to play the end-to-end game, and cover leading forwards (just look at the consideration Carroll is getting).

Perhaps an improvement in his gutrunning might win him the opportunity, but I doubt it.

As a midfielder, Fisher just hasn't got it, and if he's going to make it back that's where the opportunities lie... but he doesn't win the ball offensively or have the speed to tag effectively.

[bigcarl]

the role in defense where he looked good seems to not exist anymore - taller, faster players are preferred: Dempster, Raph and Gilbert.

we put a lot of talent in the back line, sometimes at the expense of other important positions.

goddard, s. fisher, gram, raph and gilbert were often used there in 2008 (not in key positions) while our midfield and forward line were being exposed.

i'm all for run off half back, but let's not neglect winning the midfield or putting a score on the board.

if players such as l. fisher, xavier clarke or farren ray can slot into the back line, it will free up some of the above for more offensive duties.

i'd try bj at full forward and add raph, gram and gilbert to the midfield rotation.

[saintbob]

Birss can consider himself very,very unlucky when the likes of Fiora and McQualter get retained.

Fiora - Sleeps with the light on I'm sure and is easily the most over rated player on our list. How he got a game against the Hawks still amazes me, would love to hear RL's explanation of this.

McQualter - The days of a tagger who can't get the ball or dispose of it effectively when he does get it are well and truelly gone, it's no longer good enough just to restrict your opponent and to be honest I can't think of to many that Mini beat one on one anyway!!!

IMO Birss was and still is clearly ahead of these two.

[bigcarl]

the role in defense where he looked good seems to not exist anymore - taller, faster players are preferred: Dempster, Raph and Gilbert.

we put a lot of talent in the back line, sometimes at the expense of other important positions.

goddard, s. fisher, gram, raph and gilbert were often used there in 2008 (not in key positions) while our midfield and forward line were being exposed.

i'm all for run off half back, but let's not neglect winning the midfield or putting a score on the board.

if players such as l. fisher, xavier clarke or farren ray can slot into the back line, it will free up some of the above for more offensive duties.

i'd try bj at full forward and add raph, gram and gilbert to the midfield rotation.

i forgot goose and baker.

if they can get back to anything near their best it would also help us to free up some very good players - bj, s. fisher, gram, raph, gilbert etc - for more attacking roles.