St Kilda list and Football Department changes

[nicola69]

.

...year we had RIX, FIORA, BIRSS, L. FISHER, C. GARDINER, McQUALTER, FERGUSSON, X CLARKE who have gone beyond development players - players who are never going to win you senior games of footy and are basically just clogging up the development of younger players.

Every year we keep these dead wood on the list puts the club another year behind they could have had developing a younger player.

SAINTS need to be smarter at the back end of their list and cull much earlier than they do!

How on earth can you include the X-Man on that list? He is star. He has just had some injuries. He gets injured because he really goes in for the ball. He shames some of the others with his endeavour.

I can't believe the posters who bag X. Don't you watch the games?

[Devilhead]

.

...year we had RIX, FIORA, BIRSS, L. FISHER, C. GARDINER, McQUALTER, FERGUSSON, X CLARKE who have gone beyond development players - players who are never going to win you senior games of footy and are basically just clogging up the development of younger players.

Every year we keep these dead wood on the list puts the club another year behind they could have had developing a younger player.

SAINTS need to be smarter at the back end of their list and cull much earlier than they do!

How on earth can you include the X-Man on that list? He is star. He has just had some injuries. He gets injured because he really goes in for the ball. He shames some of the others with his endeavour.

I can't believe the posters who bag X. Don't you watch the games?

Agree with you there Nic - when X is up and flying the guy is a potential match winner and gamebreaker

Unfortunately how long do you hold on to potential match winners who can never seem to get out onto the park

As annoying as it is for us to see him on the sidelines he must be 10 times as frustrated - really feel for him as his talent is there for everyone to see (well most people anyway )

Lets hope he can get himself right as it will be big step towards winning that elusive premiership

[sunsaint]

RIX ROX RUX

ROSS FUX RIX OFF

What worries me about dropping Rix, is the disappearing MG
9 games in two years is not a good return.
Ben McEvoy is not ready yet.
King did very well in his first year, but Im sure in '08 he had a big point to prove. If he goes down can we rely solely on MG?
And before everyone jumps in with "what about Kosi"? Rix was a better tap ruckman and the new throw in rule would have suited a quicker mobile ruckman in Rix.

[Devilhead]

RIX ROX RUX

ROSS FUX RIX OFF

What worries me about dropping Rix, is the disappearing MG
9 games in two years is not a good return.
Ben McEvoy is not ready yet.
King did very well in his first year, but Im sure in '08 he had a big point to prove. If he goes down can we rely solely on MG?
And before everyone jumps in with "what about Kosi"? Rix was a better tap ruckman and the new throw in rule would have suited a quicker mobile ruckman in Rix.

Maybe Ross is looking to recruit Barks to replace his idol

I heard he has some height about him - can anyone confirm??

[nicola69]

.

...year we had RIX, FIORA, BIRSS, L. FISHER, C. GARDINER, McQUALTER, FERGUSSON, X CLARKE who have gone beyond development players - players who are never going to win you senior games of footy and are basically just clogging up the development of younger players.

Every year we keep these dead wood on the list puts the club another year behind they could have had developing a younger player.

SAINTS need to be smarter at the back end of their list and cull much earlier than they do!

How on earth can you include the X-Man on that list? He is star. He has just had some injuries. He gets injured because he really goes in for the ball. He shames some of the others with his endeavour.

I can't believe the posters who bag X. Don't you watch the games?

Agree with you there Nic - when X is up and flying the guy is a potential match winner and gamebreaker

Unfortunately how long do you hold on to potential match winners who can never seem to get out onto the park

As annoying as it is for us to see him on the sidelines he must be 10 times as frustrated - really feel for him as his talent is there for everyone to see (well most people anyway )

Lets hope he can get himself right as it will be big step towards winning that elusive premiership

...and it was great to see Raph Clarke's strong finish to the season. BOG in our final win. Good stuff. Clarke brothers for ever.

L Fisher is a good backman. Got an attacking side to his back play too. Would be a pity if he goes.

The only reason to delist Attard would have to be a doctor's report. He was excellent in 2007 as a stone-cold stopper of small to medium forwards.

[meher baba]

Excellent decision-making by Lyon, Drain and whoever else was involved.

While feeling sympathy for the players cut, I couldn't be happier.

C Gardiner and Birss have both been around the AFL for years (correct me if I wrong, but I think it is 7 and 8 years respectively). The first clubs that recruited them were happy to see them go and asked for very little in exchange.

Neither of them could win a spot in the top 22 in a Sainters team in the finals that was missing X, Bakes, Goose, Ball, Dempster and Gehrig and which quite a few players who are not certain AFL quality were selected: Jones, Gwilt, Eddy, McQualter, Allen and Armo.

Ferguson has been around for 6 (?) years, was extremely lucky to be redrafted in 2006 when, among others, TS40 was cut. Like C Gardiner and Birss, it is now reasonable to conclude that - if he were ever going to make it into the club's top 25 - he would have done so by now.

Rix was never much good. Once they decided to keep MG (not necessarily a great idea IMO) it was a logical step to delist him.

Attard is a bit unlucky - I reckon that there is little between him, Geary, Eddy and McQualter - but he got injured at the wrong time and, given that the club wants Cousins, there wasn't anybody left to delist for him to be elevated. I reckon there's a reasonable chance he'll get redrafted.

The players that some on here would like to have seen delisted - Gwilt, X, Goose, Baker, L Fisher, Fiora - have all reached proven AFL quality and guaranteed top 25 status at the club for sustained periods (albeit that L Fisher and Fiora dropped away from this level in 2008). They have demonstrated that they have more upside than the 4 who were delisted.

So it's a good outcome. If Fiora and L Fisher can't lift their games, or if Goose, X and Baker can't find a way back from their injured status to their best form - then all of these will be at somerisk in 12 months time: as will the likes of Gwilt, Geary, Jones and Eddy.

Now we need to draft some reasonable players.

[St Fidelius]

RIX ROX RUX

ROSS FUX RIX OFF

What worries me about dropping Rix, is the disappearing MG
9 games in two years is not a good return.
Ben McEvoy is not ready yet.
King did very well in his first year, but Im sure in '08 he had a big point to prove. If he goes down can we rely solely on MG?
And before everyone jumps in with "what about Kosi"? Rix was a better tap ruckman and the new throw in rule would have suited a quicker mobile ruckman in Rix.

I've mentioned all along that the retention of MG signalled a danger in what is a very poor ruck division...

I was called "negative" even though I mentioned that MG has only played about 22 games in 5 years and his body is not getting any younger...

It's not "negative", it's fact... if posters believe that he is still going to improve at this late stage of his career and provide more output are simply fooling themselves IMO...

Rix was never the answer despite comments that RIX RUX ROCS...

He simply is not good enough at AFL level and despite the certain poster that raved on and on about him and yet NEVER seen him play in a VFL match either with Coburg or the Scorps, Rix is just another player that this poster has rammed down our throats for a few years along with Fergus Watts...

Thank F*** this poster is not a talent scout ...

We really need King to play a major part of next season, which, in respect was a through away from Geelong...

That just shows me where we stand in our ruck division ...

Kosi, Gardiner, Blake to be pinch hitters with McEvoy being tried...

No different, in fact worse than last year IMO

[sunsaint]

He simply is not good enough at AFL level and despite the certain poster that raved on and on about him and yet NEVER seen him play in a VFL match either with Coburg or the Scorps, Rix is just another player that this poster has rammed down our throats for a few years along with Fergus Watts...

Just to be very clear about this..you are replying to my post arent you???

[saintsRrising]

On rucks....

King has performed...and will again in 2009.

MG will be a worthy back up in 2009 (injury, suspension etc to King)...and MCEvoy is young and will get some gametime.

Kosi will mainly play forward...but with some spells in the ruck.

That is adequate depth for 2009

For infinity and beyond.......or rather 2011 and beyond no doubt amonst either the ND or the Rookies there will be another young ruckman tried.

Blake our NSW scholarship player may well get rookied...

On Mids

Cousins (we hope) and Ray will give us a welcome lift.

Steven is our one young hopeful of beinga future gun( way too early to call though)....with Armo, Geary, Eddy providing depth....plus the Jones boy..even with his limitations.

Gram will have learnt from his midfield time in 2008 and will be better for it.

BJ to star in 2009...but like Hodge will mainly stay back to set up play.

But we need MORE!!!!! For our 2009 chances it is VITAL that Ball gets fit...we need his grount...and that X-man at last delivers.

But we need more still!!!! So expect some mids in the drafts.


KPP's -forward
Allen is still an unknown.

Charlie was given a one year trial as that missing medium forward and we may not have hada choice as I suspect thta taking over his contract was part of the deal to land King).

Kosi may not bea gun forward...but with Roo a superstar..Kosi provides that other big forward option that you need.

The medium forward spot still has the VACANCY sign though.

KPP's - back

Can Maguire come back? We hope so....for if he can resume at CHB it frees up Fisher to be the creative and damaging player that we know he can be.

Max will be Max...but for how much longer.
Gilbert might have turned the corner late in 2008..but I hope he spends the summer on his kicking.


So one would expect a tall player or too amongst our picks....

Other??

We we still lack a small defender capable of shutting down class small forwards. An area that we struggled in in 2008. Baker???

Irish

Well a lucky dip here...but I would expect at least one Irish International Rookie to be listed. I would imagine that they will be quick.....but short or tall???

[St Fidelius]

He simply is not good enough at AFL level and despite the certain poster that raved on and on about him and yet NEVER seen him play in a VFL match either with Coburg or the Scorps, Rix is just another player that this poster has rammed down our throats for a few years along with Fergus Watts...

Just to be very clear about this..you are replying to my post arent you???

I was referring to your whole post and not that snippet you quoted ...

part of my post refers to another poster....

sorry for the confusion

[St Fidelius]

On rucks....

King has performed...and will again in 2009.

MG will be a worthy back up in 2009 (injury, suspension etc to King)...and MCEvoy is young and will get some gametime.

Kosi will mainly play forward...but with some spells in the ruck.

That is adequate depth for 2009

Just why do you consider that is adequate depth ????

When teams should improve each year, just why do you consider

"what we had last year will improve next year"??

The Saints signaled their intention in securing Cordy for their first round draft pick, then rebutting the Bulldogs efforts of securing for a second rounder...

And you really think that is adequate depth for 2009???

Obviously the Saints didn't and missed out on a ruck

and your "adequate depth" this year is NOT "adequate depth" next year IMO

Unless McEvoy improves big time, we are worse off IMO...

I just can't believe you still rate MG as our improving answer...

Yes, you have devoted a thread of his developments that lasted about 7 pages in last years off season, but, really get a grip, he is not the answer and to secure him for another season means we are in trouble in the ruck IMO...

He is getting older and time to forget what he was 5 or 6 years ago...

he will never get to that stage, if so the club would have grabbed him for a 3 year deal....

[To the top]

What amazes me is that in "debating" matters here certain people totally disregard what the Coach says about players.

In re-signing M. Gardiner the Coach said he played 16 games for the season and showed what the Club wanted to see, mentioning particularly the Sydney game until a calf injury took him from the field and interrupted his season. M. Gardiner was a good player in a poor team that night and was pulling St Kilda back into the game.

I did not say that, the Coach did.

But still you get rubbish peddled on this site. And I thought getting "The Age", where the Coach's comments were published, thrown over the fence was part of the Membership package.

Perhaps some on here just can not read.

Lyon also said last year that he saw Gilbert and R. Clarke as 6' 3" running types in the mid-field and the future of the side.

But we see the banging on re R. Clarke and, to a lesser extent, Gilbert.

Perhaps some of you could comment on the Coach's views instead of making things up like M. Gardiner "only played X number of games in whatever".

It is what he showed the St Kilda Football Department in the 16 games Lyon referred to.

And we had better hope he can continue to show it in 2009 - plus improve to another level because he is a big, strong, determined ruckman with some mongrel and a hard body - and a fair bit of ability.

[iceman]

Those who are supriesed at L. Fisher, I think form memory he signed a 3 year deal after playing all games last season, so he still has 2 years remaining on his contract, there is no way a player will be paid out for 2 years when your on 200k+ a year

That's not what is mentioned on the Saintsational Web forum...

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=34394

It states that his contract expires 2008

If L Fisher's contract expires this year, he is very lucky and Birss is so unlucky IMO

Birss had a far better season than L Fisher

I think you will find that he still has time remaining on his contract... that's from the horses mouth, if you don't want to belive me then that's up to you

[Teflon]

Of those who stayed:

McQualter - I was disappointed in his delisting last year but it looks like he's just not good enough. Too small, slow, etc.
Fiora - Who gave him a two-year deal? Crazy.
Gwilt - I don't think he'll ever be a frequent contributor.
L Fisher - Hardly played this year. Was he contracted? Should have been cut if not.

Agree, these players would never be on a strong list.
No weapons

Double agree.

Mqualter gives you little.
Fisher = plodder
Fiora - well documented.
Gwilt I reckon could....id have kept him he looks ok fwd.....

I wouldve kept Birss but the rest Ive n problem with.

Geez we got some quality issues. Hawks/Cats must be shaking in their boots.......

Anyone still saying this list is 2004 quality? or its "all coach game plan related?"

Keep turnig them over Ross.....the ship has a way to go to right the sins of recent past drafting yet IMHO.

[skeptic]

I just don't see how you could keep a player like Jones and delist a player like Birss...

very unhappy with that

otherwise, the rest are about right

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Of those who stayed:

McQualter - I was disappointed in his delisting last year but it looks like he's just not good enough. Too small, slow, etc.
Fiora - Who gave him a two-year deal? Crazy.
Gwilt - I don't think he'll ever be a frequent contributor.
L Fisher - Hardly played this year. Was he contracted? Should have been cut if not.

Agree, these players would never be on a strong list.
No weapons

Double agree.

Mqualter gives you little.
Fisher = plodder
Fiora - well documented.
Gwilt I reckon could....id have kept him he looks ok fwd.....

I wouldve kept Birss but the rest Ive n problem with.

Geez we got some quality issues. Hawks/Cats must be shaking in their boots.......

Anyone still saying this list is 2004 quality? or its "all coach game plan related?"

Keep turnig them over Ross.....the ship has a way to go to right the sins of recent past drafting yet IMHO.

the boss has had a few years to draft stop gap measures whilst he figured out who could and who couldnt play

the fact that we made the prelim shows how good we can be...even with a very ordinary bottom portion of our list

[plugger66]

Of those who stayed:

McQualter - I was disappointed in his delisting last year but it looks like he's just not good enough. Too small, slow, etc.
Fiora - Who gave him a two-year deal? Crazy.
Gwilt - I don't think he'll ever be a frequent contributor.
L Fisher - Hardly played this year. Was he contracted? Should have been cut if not.

Agree, these players would never be on a strong list.
No weapons

Double agree.

Mqualter gives you little.
Fisher = plodder
Fiora - well documented.
Gwilt I reckon could....id have kept him he looks ok fwd.....

I wouldve kept Birss but the rest Ive n problem with.

Geez we got some quality issues. Hawks/Cats must be shaking in their boots.......

Anyone still saying this list is 2004 quality? or its "all coach game plan related?"

Keep turnig them over Ross.....the ship has a way to go to right the sins of recent past drafting yet IMHO.

the boss has had a few years to draft stop gap measures whilst he figured out who could and who couldnt play

the fact that we made the prelim shows how good we can be...even with a very ordinary bottom portion of our list

Yes he has had some stop gap players since taking over. We have now delisted 5 players he recruited from other clubs or our own club in 2 years. Just proves getting ordinary or semi retired players in a waste of a draft pick. Is Ray and Cousins going to go the same way?

[Solar]

good decisions

basically it can also come down to who is out of contract. birss was cut and fiora survived because of fizz's form in 2007. Strange decision to give fiora a two year contract at his age and background. It was not that we would have been worried about him leaving for another side.

With dempster going down fish has survived. Mini keeps his spot for doing some really good jobs as a tagger. But by the end of 2009 there might be only one spot avaliable between mini, fish and baker.

I'm glad charlie was cut, no real upside. he's a VFL standard player.

On those others wanted gone.....

eddy had a really good first season. Works his arse off, is one of the few who can gut run and has learnt what is need physcially to play at the highest level. Jones worked hard but as others have suggested, this was because steven was too young, xavier was injured and others did not get to that level. Can he turn into a GOP or a turn over king. Will be interesting to watch.

geary went backwards a little but the kid has class. I would like to see us pump games into him, howard and steven during the pre-season and do not be suprised if a couple push themselves into the starting 22.

finally on the whole rucking situation. As I have banged on for months, our game plan needs big ruckman. We cannot get through a season without one of gardiner or rix as the back up to king. The coaching panel saw more in gardiner (was pushing hard for selection, ross said he was a week away during the pelim week) so he got the contract and rix got the boot.

If I hear the likes of st fid bleat on about games played once more I will just put them in the "barks: thus ignore them" basket. If games played in the past was a pre-req then baker, goose, x would all be gone before birss, charlie and rix......

[St Fidelius]

Those who are supriesed at L. Fisher, I think form memory he signed a 3 year deal after playing all games last season, so he still has 2 years remaining on his contract, there is no way a player will be paid out for 2 years when your on 200k+ a year

That's not what is mentioned on the Saintsational Web forum...

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=34394

It states that his contract expires 2008

If L Fisher's contract expires this year, he is very lucky and Birss is so unlucky IMO

Birss had a far better season than L Fisher

I think you will find that he still has time remaining on his contract... that's from the horses mouth, if you don't want to belive me then that's up to you

If that's true, it shows very poor list management IMO

[borderbarry]

Correct me if I am wrong......
We now have 4 picks in the National Draft, one probably to be used on Cousins, so only three youngsters are going to be added to the Senior List.
With only Miles and McQualter being retained as Rookies, we can recruit 4 youngsters as rookies, one of whom will probably be Neel McKeever, the 195cm Irishman. We will probably also add Blake McGrath, the 208cm NSW boy, who will I imagine, join Haretuku outside the rookie list.
So, we have added an outside mid, (Farren Ray), will pick up an inside mid (Ben Cousins), and add to the rookie list a 195cm Irishman said to be a mid, and a 208cm ruck.
With our three Senior list and three rookie picks I would like to see another mid, a KPD, a KPF, another ruck, and a nippy aboriginal type forward, and a utility type.
Anyone agree?

[older saint]

Lets see if any delisted players get picked up by any other clubs, then you have an agrument they may have been hardly done by. As supporters we tend to overrate some players and bag the cr*p out of others.