Xavier CLARKE ? !!

[Con Gorozidis]

ok if his only issue is soft tissue injury - why was he not slected in our top 22 against the hawks??? he was not injured. he was no selected due to FORM!! not injury.

That's right it was his form, I know I wouldn't be playing my best football if my father was lying half dead in hospital, yes r was playing, but different people react differently

explain that shakey. or you now reckon you know more than the selection panel and coach???

Obviously you believe you know more than the selection panel and the coach, because they obviously want to keep him as he has a place in our top 22

secondly "putting on weight" has nothing to do with strength - maybe stan alves just had an old fashioned viewof physiology and bulking up (which u seem to have)

you can get strong and no put on weight (in fact that is the ideal).
so you are telling me matty lappin did not improve strength? trust me will find out his charts. i can guarantee he improved his strength a lot.

either way matty lappin is not relevant.
Matty Lappin is actually relevant, he actually bulked up when he went to Carlton, not much, but enough for him to lose pace and agility, he then lost the weight and kept playing
not sure what games you have been watching if u reckon X hasnt got a strength issue. Let me guess. You are telling me hes an awesome player only curtailed by injuries? that he has nothing to work on? that he cant improve? that he just needs some luck with injuries???



you guys can just keep fantasising about how great your hack players are.

Maybe a troll slip of the tongue
i am so sick about hearing about potential an never hearing about actual performance. face facts. X was not injured in the last month of the season and was completely hopeless. could not get a kick. he wasnt injured in his casey games. hes was just not up tp afl standard.
See above
are you saying he doesnt have a weakness in his game? just injuries???
if so you are one deluded mofo. if u reckon x and kosi do not have MASSIVE weaknesses in their game you are deluded. i can assure that they would both acknowledge they have a lot of work to do off the field.
Massive weaknesses,no, weaknesses yes, for you to say they are massive shows that you are deluded
if this if that if this if that.. you are so full of lame excuses. the fact is the guy is not that good. he needs to work hard to improve.

and he is actually that good, but yes he does need to improve, mainly consistency, which will come from getting an injury free run hopefully

as in people seem to have "favourites" that arent based on reality. how the F*** is matty lappin in 2000 relevant to x in 2009.

calling me a troll. how old are you? 9?

im sure hes a wonderful bloke - but he his body strength is a major issue. deny it all you like. live in hope all you like. but head in the sand and wishful thinking wont make it better.

some players dont take strength training seriously and just go through the motions in their weights/strength sessions. i suspect x is one of them. and tell that attitude changes he will not improve. injuries and consistency aside

i cant handle this passive attitude about just waiting. his only way out of his slump is to work his ass off.

and yes his dad is sad- but dont try to use that to discredit me. thats low dude.

look at a guy like joel selwood. already better than x. and u guys continually say we just need to wait - and wait for a miracle to happen.

and he wasnt in the team last game and was avaliable. and the coaching staff shopped him around. and he was not offerd a contract until the last minute.

so no. i think i am pretty in sync with what the coaches think.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

ok if his only issue is soft tissue injury - why was he not slected in our top 22 against the hawks??? he was not injured. he was no selected due to FORM!! not injury.

look at a guy like joel selwood. already better than x. and u guys continually say we just need to wait - and wait for a miracle to happen.

and he wasnt in the team last game and was avaliable. and the coaching staff shopped him around. and he was not offerd a contract until the last minute.

so no. i think i am pretty in sync with what the coaches think.

Well, no.

There seems to be a huge gap between the Con Gorozidis view of Xavier Clarke and the coaches view of Xavier Clarke as I read it in this thread. In the CG view of X, X is not a member os St Kilda's best 22 because he's too weak due to a bad attitude to strength training. Also because he's not Joel Selwood.

In the selection panel view, they selected him for a qualifying final when he'd missed a lot of time due to injury - one would have to suppose on the thought that he was talented enough to possibly make a difference. This against one of the strongest teams in the AFL.

A view of X's strength may be relevant (though hard to quantify in a player who hasn't strung the games together to tell), but while disingenuously linking not playing a player who's proven unfit to unsubstanciated theories about how seriously he takes weight training is an interesting read, we can only hope that it doesn't represent the thinking of the St Kilda coaches. I would hope they actually have some plans in place to get him fit, and help him make good on what they saw to make them select him from nowhere to play Geelong.

[Con Gorozidis]

ok if his only issue is soft tissue injury - why was he not slected in our top 22 against the hawks??? he was not injured. he was no selected due to FORM!! not injury.

look at a guy like joel selwood. already better than x. and u guys continually say we just need to wait - and wait for a miracle to happen.

and he wasnt in the team last game and was avaliable. and the coaching staff shopped him around. and he was not offerd a contract until the last minute.

so no. i think i am pretty in sync with what the coaches think.

Well, no.

There seems to be a huge gap between the Con Gorozidis view of Xavier Clarke and the coaches view of Xavier Clarke as I read it in this thread. In the CG view of X, X is not a member os St Kilda's best 22 because he's too weak due to a bad attitude to strength training. Also because he's not Joel Selwood.

In the selection panel view, they selected him for a qualifying final when he'd missed a lot of time due to injury - one would have to suppose on the thought that he was talented enough to possibly make a difference. This against one of the strongest teams in the AFL.

A view of X's strength may be relevant (though hard to quantify in a player who hasn't strung the games together to tell), but while disingenuously linking not playing a player who's proven unfit to unsubstanciated theories about how seriously he takes weight training is an interesting read, we can only hope that it doesn't represent the thinking of the St Kilda coaches. I would hope they actually have some plans in place to get him fit, and help him make good on what they saw to make them select him from nowhere to play Geelong.

ok ill put it in plain english


was not selected the last time we played (against hawks) despite being avaliable and injury free.

was picked against cats based on some ok casey form but struggled when stepping up to afl level

has been in afl system for 6 years and is still physically weak.

simple. which bit of the above is in dispute???

mate if all these guys were as good as you like to think wed win the flag every year. now im not a critical or negative prick but everyone is way too ready to excuse players and hero worship them based on "potential" rather than actual performance.

im also the first to dip my hat when someone works their butt off and improves. blake, raph and milney come to mind as guys i have criticised in the past but who have put their heads down and bums up and improved.

what culture do you support?

[sainteronline]

as in people seem to have "favourites" that arent based on reality. how the F*** is matty lappin in 2000 relevant to x in 2009.

Matty Lappen is relevant because they are roughly the same type of body size, everybody criticised Matty Lappen early on in his career being under weight, the same as you're doing now, that is what these arguments about isn't it, his lack of strength, some people take longer to develop
calling me a troll. how old are you? 9? No that is your IQ

im sure hes a wonderful bloke - but he his body strength is a major issue. deny it all you like. live in hope all you like. but head in the sand and wishful thinking wont make it better.

some players dont take strength training seriously and just go through the motions in their weights/strength sessions. i suspect x is one of them. and tell that attitude changes he will not improve. injuries and consistency aside you suspect the truth is you have no idea what he's weighttraining regime is
i cant handle this passive attitude about just waiting. his only way out of his slump is to work his ass off. How do you know he's not?

and yes his dad is sad- but dont try to use that to discredit me. thats low dude. If you recollect I said that I would find it hard to play football under those conditions , that must be a hell of a load in itself, just for him and his brother to be able to get out there, is a feat in itself.jmho

look at a guy like joel selwood. already better than x. Selwood is better than a lot of players, not just X and u guys continually say we just need to wait - and wait for a miracle to happen.

and he wasnt in the team last game and was avaliable. and the coaching staff shopped him around. and he was not offerd a contract until the last minute.

so no. i think i am pretty in sync with what the coaches think.

I think you're delusional

[stinger]

i like x ...and i don't give a f*** if others don't.........he was always going to be on our list next year ...he was never going anywhere.....and i am so happy about that i could just s***.........

[Iceman234]

i like x ...and i don't give a f*** if others don't.........he was always going to be on our list next year ...he was never going anywhere.....and i am so happy about that i could just s***.........

Will second that.

And a fantastic person to boot.

An extreme quality individual to have on our list, and hope like hell he comes back and blitzes in 09.

[evertonfc]

i like x ...and i don't give a f*** if others don't.........he was always going to be on our list next year ...he was never going anywhere.....and i am so happy about that i could just s***.........

Will second that.

And a fantastic person to boot.

An extreme quality individual to have on our list, and hope like hell he comes back and blitzes in 09.

Add me to that list of X-backers.

Big talent, great guy, offers a tremendous amount when fit.

So get fit, X

[SainterK]

ok if his only issue is soft tissue injury - why was he not slected in our top 22 against the hawks??? he was not injured. he was no selected due to FORM!! not injury.

explain that shakey. or you now reckon you know more than the selection panel and coach???



secondly "putting on weight" has nothing to do with strength - maybe stan alves just had an old fashioned viewof physiology and bulking up (which u seem to have)

you can get strong and no put on weight (in fact that is the ideal).
so you are telling me matty lappin did not improve strength? trust me will find out his charts. i can guarantee he improved his strength a lot.

either way matty lappin is not relevant.

not sure what games you have been watching if u reckon X hasnt got a strength issue. Let me guess. You are telling me hes an awesome player only curtailed by injuries? that he has nothing to work on? that he cant improve? that he just needs some luck with injuries???



you guys can just keep fantasising about how great your hack players are.


i am so sick about hearing about potential an never hearing about actual performance. face facts. X was not injured in the last month of the season and was completely hopeless. could not get a kick. he wasnt injured in his casey games. hes was just not up tp afl standard.

are you saying he doesnt have a weakness in his game? just injuries???
if so you are one deluded mofo. if u reckon x and kosi do not have MASSIVE weaknesses in their game you are deluded. i can assure that they would both acknowledge they have a lot of work to do off the field.

if this if that if this if that.. you are so full of lame excuses. the fact is the guy is not that good. he needs to work hard to improve.

You said:

you guys can just keep fantasising about how great your hack players are.

That about sums up this post, how come they are "our" players and not "yours"

Because we are supporters, you are?

[Eastern]

Did I miss something? Has X re-signed? Bloody alzymers (or is that OLD TIMERS) !!

[SainterK]

I don't think his been delisted?

[Eastern]

I don't think his been delisted?

That doesn't mean anything until 31 October !!

[SainterK]

Very true...

I am only contributing to this thread, as a post particularly annoyed me.

Also the general irony of how some players in this age group are constantly slammed for not reaching their "potential" while others are defended....I can't work it out?

[nicola69]

X is a star. Will be great next year with 2008's impact injuries behind him.

[Bernard Shakey]

I don't think his been delisted?

That doesn't mean anything until 31 October !!

Doesn't mean anything full stop.

Please write in English.

What the hell does the word "his" mean in this context?

[SainterK]

Now that's not very nice....but you never really are?

[Con Gorozidis]

as in people seem to have "favourites" that arent based on reality. how the F*** is matty lappin in 2000 relevant to x in 2009.

Matty Lappen is relevant because they are roughly the same type of body size, everybody criticised Matty Lappen early on in his career being under weight, the same as you're doing now, that is what these arguments about isn't it, his lack of strength, some people take longer to develop
calling me a troll. how old are you? 9? No that is your IQ

im sure hes a wonderful bloke - but he his body strength is a major issue. deny it all you like. live in hope all you like. but head in the sand and wishful thinking wont make it better.

some players dont take strength training seriously and just go through the motions in their weights/strength sessions. i suspect x is one of them. and tell that attitude changes he will not improve. injuries and consistency aside you suspect the truth is you have no idea what he's weighttraining regime is
i cant handle this passive attitude about just waiting. his only way out of his slump is to work his ass off. How do you know he's not?

and yes his dad is sad- but dont try to use that to discredit me. thats low dude. If you recollect I said that I would find it hard to play football under those conditions , that must be a hell of a load in itself, just for him and his brother to be able to get out there, is a feat in itself.jmho

look at a guy like joel selwood. already better than x. Selwood is better than a lot of players, not just X and u guys continually say we just need to wait - and wait for a miracle to happen.

and he wasnt in the team last game and was avaliable. and the coaching staff shopped him around. and he was not offerd a contract until the last minute.

so no. i think i am pretty in sync with what the coaches think.

I think you're delusional

never said he was underweight. said he wasnt physically strong. quad/core area to be precise. strength is more important than weight.

ok. answer this. when was his last good game for the saints? give me a date please?

al im saying is he has a weakness in his game and should work on it. thats it. you seem to refuse to acknowledge any weakness any insist "hes a star". well hes nowhere near a star. hes fringe 22 in the saints.


he seems like a top bloke. but there are lots of top bokes out there. you dont keep guys on cos they are top blokes.

whats the point of this forum ? is it just about hero worship and saying everyone is awesome like teenage girls and little kids?

im trying to be objective. not many other clubs would rate him.

it is called constructive criticism.

i identified an area of weakness;; AND
suggested a remedy/course of action for improvement.

[Con Gorozidis]

You said:

you guys can just keep fantasising about how great your hack players are.

That about sums up this post, how come they are "our" players and not "yours"

Because we are supporters, you are?

dude. noone likes a pedant.

[SainterK]

Hey dude, don't call me dude

[stinger]

You said:

you guys can just keep fantasising about how great your hack players are.

That about sums up this post, how come they are "our" players and not "yours"

Because we are supporters, you are?

dude. noone likes a pedant.

for the ignorant amongst us......



"Definitions of pedantic on the Web:

* academic: marked by a narrow focus on or display of learning especially its trivial aspects
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* A pedant, or pædant, is a person who is overly concerned with formalism and precision, or who makes a show of learning. The corresponding (obsolete) female noun is pedantess. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedantic

* Like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning; Being showy of one’s knowledge, often in a boring manner; Often used to describe a person who emphasizes his/her knowledge through the use of vocabulary; ostentatious in one’s learning; Being finicky or picky ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pedantic

* too concerned with details or fine distinctions and too ready to criticize minor errors ( disapproving )
encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861702240/scholastic.html

* a term used to describe writing that borders on lecturing. It is scholarly and academic and often overly difficult and distant
kmhs.typepad.com/parrott_ap_english_langua/files/rhetorical_terms.doc

* bookish and scholarly in tone, often boring and dull due to little interest on the part of the listener
fc.fms.k12.nm.us/~lfleming/AP%20Vocab.htm

* characterized by narrow concern for book learning and formal rules
www.tutorsite.com/tutor/sat040.htm

* overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.
jennielyse.com/"





lolololololololol.......................

[Con Gorozidis]

drafted in 2001. thats 7 years in the afl system. and you guys are still waiting. hes "gunna" be a star. are will all little star struck kids and teenage girls?

i will happily and readily admit i am wrong that he is a struggling fringe player with major flaws on the brink of de-listing if someone can give me a reasonble answer to the following 2 questions:

1. why was x dropped in the pre-lim final against the hawks??

2. what was the exact date of X's last good game for st kilda FC??

[SainterK]

I was only highlighting that we have certain expectations of some 25-26 year old players, and not others?

That there is no consistency in who is going to reach their "potential" or not, should you have already "made it' by this point?

Oh, and I am glad that my "pedant' ways could be a source of amusement for so many on here

[Con Gorozidis]

I was only highlighting that we have certain expectations of some 25-26 year old players, and not others?

That there is no consistency in who is going to reach their "potential" or not, should you have already "made it' by this point?

Oh, and I am glad that my "pedant' ways could be a source of amusement for so many on here

i think after 7 years you are no longer an apprentice. you are a senior player.

[spiral2]

1. why was x dropped in the pre-lim final against the hawks??

2. what was the exact date of X's last good game for st kilda FC??

can't answer 2. but in answer to 1. I think he looked unfit. was at the game he looked slow over the ground and just generally sluggish.
my feeling is they brought him back too soon and he wasn't ready for the physical tempo of an afl final.

I'm not sure that he's weak over the ball, I think he was too knackered and wasn't ready for the intensity to compete in that game.
Along those lines he did have a bad habit last season? when coming back into the side of going to ground when he arrived at the ball or was being chased. he seemed to iron that out after a few games.

I'm a fan of X, his skills and dash are badly needed in the side but if he can't get fit, stay fit and develop this year then I can't see the point of having him on the list. he's had a lot of chances and needs to deliver consistently in 09.

[sainteronline]

never said he was underweight. said he wasnt physically strong. quad/core area to be precise. strength is more important than weight.

ok. answer this. when was his last good game for the saints? give me a date please? Obviously the coaching staff see fit to play him in a quarter-final, against the team that finished on top of the ladder, when he hadn't played for 15 weeks beforehand, and once again have kept him on our list

al im saying is he has a weakness (correction perceived weakness, perceived by you) in his game and should work on it. thats it. you seem to refuse to acknowledge any weakness any insist "hes a star" (when have I said that he is a star? Don't be putting words in my mouth). well hes nowhere near a star. hes fringe 22 in the saints.
When fully fit is easily in our first 22

he seems like a top bloke. but there are lots of top bokes there. you dont keep guys on cos they are top blokes.

whats the point of this forum ? is it just about hero worship and saying everyone is awesome like teenage girls and little kids?

im trying to be objective. not many other clubs would rate him.
Plenty of other clubs would love to have him

it is called constructive criticism. No it's not it's called bagging a player, because honestly you have no idea of his weight training, do you? What if he is doing exactly as the fitness advisers tell him, should he listen to you instead, get real

i identified an area of weakness (you identified an area you perceive as a weakness;; AND
suggested a remedy/course of action for improvement.

about this "remedy/course of action for improvement"?

What exactly is x's current weight training regime?

And exactly how would you improve on it?

[sainteronline]

drafted in 2001. thats 7 years in the afl system. and you guys are still waiting. hes "gunna" be a star. are will all little star struck kids and teenage girls?

i will happily and readily admit i am wrong that he is a struggling fringe player with major flaws on the brink of de-listing if someone can give me a reasonble answer to the following 2 questions:

1. why was x dropped in the pre-lim final against the hawks?? Because he hadn't played seniors 15 weeks before the Geelong game and obviously wasn't ready to use in a prelim final
2. what was the exact date of X's last good game for st kilda FC??

X has played plenty of good games, not many outstanding ones, but plenty of good serviceable games, otherwise he still wouldn't be here would he