Magpies out of Cousins race

[Solar]

yet we would be laughing along with everyone else if we didnt want to sign cousins

cousins has the guts to confront his demons because football was taken away from him...if it wasn't taken away from him he wouldnt be confronting anything....

guts? or is he trying to get one last cash grab before disappearing into the night.

who knows?

i certainly have no respect for the liar he has proven to be over the years.

even getting his father to lie for him.

dan, meet you and think your a lovely guy. respect your opinions but have you ever had to deal with someone who was addicted? alcohol and gambling is bad, drugs are a step worse. People try to hide their demons and lie to get themselves out of embaressing situations. This hurt those around them. I would be guessing a few of us on here have gone through similar situations.

But there is guts in facing your demons over a year, and a key is being supported to do something you are passionate about. Everyone deserves a second chance IMO. My scorn is more at the west coast eagles who knew the problems and refused to do anything about it while winning flags.....

plugger66, I would like to see cousins get a second chance, even if it's at brisbane with vossy. But it's hard not to join the dots.....

If channel 9 did show that footage then it's a disgrace, unless it has any relevence to a current issue (say a court case) all it is doing is bringing the guy down.....

also not sure why collingwood had to go public, they could have easily just said they were not interested and left it at that....

[Teflon]

It will be interesting to see how much support Ben gets in here if he ends up at another club.
For the record i dont believe any other club would draft him.Which highlights why we would be looking to draft him.

What i meant by planned is this.
A well run club would have a few spokes in the fire so to speak. It would be drafting and developing raw talent all the time.By drafting and developing raw talent you wouldnt have to be chasing players who have been discarded from their clubs for one reason or another.
Theyre either too injury prone(Gardiner.King), too lazy(Schneider), too unskilled(I can run off a whole list), can't kick(again), can't run(McGough), pea hearts(Ackland) bring the game into disrepute( Cousins)
So a team full of discards is going to take the competition by storm is it?

A well planned assault on a flag is drafting well, developing well and managing a list well.

Yup, we are sh1t... did you just work that out?

Should we bottom out now?

Give up?

WTF..........

Getting back to "planning" .
You do realise the club will be drafting 17 and 18 year olds again this year don't you?
Some will be drafted from the country, others from interstate.

They have families and parents.

I'm not sure if you if you have kids of your own?

Secondly we are bolting sponsors names to anything and anyone that enters the club.

Again, desperately seeking bandaid approaches because the hard decisions have not been made only serves to lengthen the process.

The more King and Gardiner are sought the longer there is no young ruckman coming through.
The more BC is sought and played the longer midfield development and recruiting shortfalls are wallpapered.

Lack of planning for the future has massive shortcomings.

I do not get your logic at all.

We have kept all nat draft picks to use on youth, recruited a youthful Farren Ray who may play 100 + games , have under Lyon used the rookies for kids to the max, played more of the Gwilts, Fergs, Mqualters than ever and are talking about using 1 pick in the PSD to get a a gun mid to the club. yes he has baggage so what?

Suggesting we are not planning for the future while we draft a Cousins is scare mongering at it best.

It really is Rodgerfoxlike.

[St Igmata]

How is it scaremongering?
Have you watched FR play football?
He is another that was traded for a reason.
One pick in the top 45 picks in one of the best drafts 2 rounds deep ever?
And certainly the last uncompromised draft in a while.

Whats coming through that makes you sleep well at night?
Cousins will play in the place of Banger and whats coming through behind them?

[markp]

It will be interesting to see how much support Ben gets in here if he ends up at another club.
For the record i dont believe any other club would draft him.Which highlights why we would be looking to draft him.

What i meant by planned is this.
A well run club would have a few spokes in the fire so to speak. It would be drafting and developing raw talent all the time.By drafting and developing raw talent you wouldnt have to be chasing players who have been discarded from their clubs for one reason or another.
Theyre either too injury prone(Gardiner.King), too lazy(Schneider), too unskilled(I can run off a whole list), can't kick(again), can't run(McGough), pea hearts(Ackland) bring the game into disrepute( Cousins)
So a team full of discards is going to take the competition by storm is it?

A well planned assault on a flag is drafting well, developing well and managing a list well.

Yup, we are sh1t... did you just work that out?

Should we bottom out now?

Give up?

WTF..........

Getting back to "planning" .
You do realise the club will be drafting 17 and 18 year olds again this year don't you?
Some will be drafted from the country, others from interstate.

They have families and parents.

I'm not sure if you if you have kids of your own?

Secondly we are bolting sponsors names to anything and anyone that enters the club.

Again, desperately seeking bandaid approaches because the hard decisions have not been made only serves to lengthen the process.

The more King and Gardiner are sought the longer there is no young ruckman coming through.
The more BC is sought and played the longer midfield development and recruiting shortfalls are wallpapered.

Lack of planning for the future has massive shortcomings.

So in your words, we will be drafting 17 and 18 year olds again this year, but we are not not planning for the future....

[St Igmata]

It will be interesting to see how much support Ben gets in here if he ends up at another club.
For the record i dont believe any other club would draft him.Which highlights why we would be looking to draft him.

What i meant by planned is this.
A well run club would have a few spokes in the fire so to speak. It would be drafting and developing raw talent all the time.By drafting and developing raw talent you wouldnt have to be chasing players who have been discarded from their clubs for one reason or another.
Theyre either too injury prone(Gardiner.King), too lazy(Schneider), too unskilled(I can run off a whole list), can't kick(again), can't run(McGough), pea hearts(Ackland) bring the game into disrepute( Cousins)
So a team full of discards is going to take the competition by storm is it?

A well planned assault on a flag is drafting well, developing well and managing a list well.

Yup, we are sh1t... did you just work that out?

Should we bottom out now?

Give up?

WTF..........

Getting back to "planning" .
You do realise the club will be drafting 17 and 18 year olds again this year don't you?
Some will be drafted from the country, others from interstate.

They have families and parents.

I'm not sure if you if you have kids of your own?

Secondly we are bolting sponsors names to anything and anyone that enters the club.

Again, desperately seeking bandaid approaches because the hard decisions have not been made only serves to lengthen the process.

The more King and Gardiner are sought the longer there is no young ruckman coming through.
The more BC is sought and played the longer midfield development and recruiting shortfalls are wallpapered.

Lack of planning for the future has massive shortcomings.

So in your words, we will be drafting 17 and 18 year olds again this year, but we are not not planning for the future....

indeed.
Of course!

one teen in the first 50 odd and then a few from around 50 through to whatever -to add to the Jarrad Allans and the Connors
As Farren Ray comes in with the other early picks Brookes Fiora Gardiner King Watts - all early picks with their clubs and trades.

Thats planning!

[Legendary]

Taking out Harvey and Gehrig, we have one of the younger lists in the AFL.

Add in another 4 new young draftees this year, and we'll have about 1/3 of our list under the age of 21.

That's pretty good stuff IMO.

[Teflon]

It will be interesting to see how much support Ben gets in here if he ends up at another club.
For the record i dont believe any other club would draft him.Which highlights why we would be looking to draft him.

What i meant by planned is this.
A well run club would have a few spokes in the fire so to speak. It would be drafting and developing raw talent all the time.By drafting and developing raw talent you wouldnt have to be chasing players who have been discarded from their clubs for one reason or another.
Theyre either too injury prone(Gardiner.King), too lazy(Schneider), too unskilled(I can run off a whole list), can't kick(again), can't run(McGough), pea hearts(Ackland) bring the game into disrepute( Cousins)
So a team full of discards is going to take the competition by storm is it?

A well planned assault on a flag is drafting well, developing well and managing a list well.

Yup, we are sh1t... did you just work that out?

Should we bottom out now?

Give up?

WTF..........

Getting back to "planning" .
You do realise the club will be drafting 17 and 18 year olds again this year don't you?
Some will be drafted from the country, others from interstate.

They have families and parents.

I'm not sure if you if you have kids of your own?

Secondly we are bolting sponsors names to anything and anyone that enters the club.

Again, desperately seeking bandaid approaches because the hard decisions have not been made only serves to lengthen the process.

The more King and Gardiner are sought the longer there is no young ruckman coming through.
The more BC is sought and played the longer midfield development and recruiting shortfalls are wallpapered.

Lack of planning for the future has massive shortcomings.

So in your words, we will be drafting 17 and 18 year olds again this year, but we are not not planning for the future....

Thats the part I dont get....weve kept our picks, recruited a young player and are using a PSD pick on a player that IF he perfoms at 60% of what he used to will improve our midfield from the first bounce in 09.

The list has a coreofplayers in their prime NOW - you either delist, start again or decide you can improve this, continue to bring in youth and make your run at a flag now.....we arent in Melbournes easy decision.

Many said if we recruit Kerr and trade Dal we havent improved our midfield. Well we've kept Dal and co and added a players who despite his issues we all know can play. Hes not in Stuart Dew shape FFS and akin to Harvey in the running stakes AND kicks a goal......

bizarre to not see for a psd pick thats not worth the risk given where we are at.

[St Igmata]

Taking out Harvey and Gehrig, we have one of the younger lists in the AFL.

Add in another 4 new young draftees this year, and we'll have about 1/3 of our list under the age of 21.

That's pretty good stuff IMO.

Yes, but how good are they?
If you dont have the mindset to draft and develop your own,like Hawthorn and Geelong you will struggle.

[Legendary]

We clearly do have the mindset to draft and develop our own.

Since Lyon has come to the club we've added 10 players under the age of 21 to the list.

Quality is irrelevant ... unless we tank and finish down the bottom for a couple of years, it's difficult to be guaranteed quality youngsters.

But we continue to blood youth - we had 4 AFL debuants this year.


IMO it's about balance.

[Teflon]

Taking out Harvey and Gehrig, we have one of the younger lists in the AFL.

Add in another 4 new young draftees this year, and we'll have about 1/3 of our list under the age of 21.

That's pretty good stuff IMO.

Yes, but how good are they?
If you dont have the mindset to draft and develop your own,like Hawthorn and Geelong you will struggle.

get off the grass.

Ask yourself are we in the same spot right now that Hawthorn have been for the last 5 years, sitting on the bottom stock piling draft picks?

or Geelong living off their fortunate father son gene pool?

FFS statements like that without context for where WE are as a club are ludicrous.

Cousins TEH FOOTBALLER adds to our midfield easily. OUR job as a club is to manage him off field. I think the club, the coach have shown some balls to take St Kilda fwd - they clearly believe we can challenge for a flag and good on them for that.

[SainterK]

Not that I am all for BC coming to St Kilda....

I do know however that he comes across as both proud and arrogant, which may actually be traits that will serve him well should he make a comeback to football!

He is going to need a thick skin.

[Richter]

It amazes me on this forum how things change about a player if he may be coming to the Saints. So they showed old footage of Cousins on Channel 9 news and we say Maguire organised that. I didnt know he also organised channel 10 news. I hope everyone who thinks the old footage of Cousins is disgusting feels the same way next time we see Wayne Carey in the news and they show old footage or when they talk about Barry Hall and they show him hitting Brent Staker.

I was hoping we wouldnt recruit Cousins because of his age, not drug habits, but now I hope we dont recruit him because all we will hear is whinging about showing old footage of one of our players.

Speaking of whinging.....

Nothing like someone who whinges endlessly about the endless whinging...

[Richter]

Cousins THE FOOTBALLER adds to our midfield easily.

Quite simply we as a club have the most of all the AFL teams to gain from "topping up". Our core is coming to the ripe age over the next 2 - 3 years (25-28 - from Riewoldt, 26 yesterday to Goddard, 23).

For the next 2-3 seasons we'd like the addition of a ready-to-go medium CHF and 2 mids to maximise our chances of a flag over that period. After that we're into the usual restocking of lists that all clubs go through continually.

IMO with Ray and the likely addition of BC that's 2/3. I'd be stoked if we can pull it off.

[Teflon]

Cousins THE FOOTBALLER adds to our midfield easily.

Quite simply we as a club have the most of all the AFL teams to gain from "topping up". Our core is coming to the ripe age over the next 2 - 3 years (25-28 - from Riewoldt, 26 yesterday to Goddard, 23).

For the next 2-3 seasons we'd like the addition of a ready-to-go medium CHF and 2 mids to maximise our chances of a flag over that period. After that we're into the usual restocking of lists that all clubs go through continually.

IMO with Ray and the likely addition of BC that's 2/3. I'd be stoked if we can pull it off.

Ia gree Richter.

I mean wed all like to always be the "upcoming young gun" side of a few years back but facts are the wheel turns...sadly thats now Carlton....

We are a maturing side with a core in their prime.

IMHO our greatest weakness rears its head next season with the loss of Hudgton - HUGE hole Im not sure Maguire (as some think) can fill....

Im not into top ups but I really see little other option than to go after Cousins given where we are at - really whose gonna wait 3 years till this draft crop can help out a 29/30 yr old Nick Riewoldt?

1 player in Cousins wont get us a flag - his input to the midfield will be handy but its more hes another player opposition have gotta stop that takes some of the heat off others that I like.

M Gardiner has to come good and look out...

IMO we have to take a bit of a punt - Collingwood on the other hand simply have to many kids so that drafting a cousins, outside some exprience factor, was ridiculous to me.

[SAINT JUMP]

he was a gun. 2 years out of football, and all the other issues, is he still one.

[Teflon]

he was a gun. 2 years out of football, and all the other issues, is he still one.

or is the question that at say 70% is Ben Cousins in our top 22?

Ahead of Mqualter, Birss, Fiora, Jones et al? for the cost of a PSD pick?

[SAINT JUMP]

we know what weve got with the likes of birris ect. do we know what we are going to get with bc. remember this is a guy, who didnt think he had a problem.

[St Igmata]

Taking out Harvey and Gehrig, we have one of the younger lists in the AFL.

Add in another 4 new young draftees this year, and we'll have about 1/3 of our list under the age of 21.

That's pretty good stuff IMO.

Yes, but how good are they?
If you dont have the mindset to draft and develop your own,like Hawthorn and Geelong you will struggle.

get off the grass.

Ask yourself are we in the same spot right now that Hawthorn have been for the last 5 years, sitting on the bottom stock piling draft picks?

or Geelong living off their fortunate father son gene pool?

FFS statements like that without context for where WE are as a club are ludicrous.

Cousins TEH FOOTBALLER adds to our midfield easily. OUR job as a club is to manage him off field. I think the club, the coach have shown some balls to take St Kilda fwd - they clearly believe we can challenge for a flag and good on them for that.

Yes. Geelong have their father sons .
Thats funny.

Priority Pick Riewoldt.
#1 Kosi

Priority Pick Luke Ball /pick 2 overall
#pick5 X Clarke

Pick 1 Goddard.

Also brought in by finishing low. Hamill/Gehrig/Black

That far outweighs any father son advantage Geelong had.

Add to that Brookes as afirst and second round pick trade for the Eveerrit deal.
Ackland
McGough
Penny
Guerra
Watts
Gram
Birrs
Schneider
Dempster
Ray

Etc

Want to work out how many first second and third round picks that makes up?

And with whats left.There iare few earlish picks- Which brings us to "not alot coming through" but yes Geelong had it gifted to the have they?

How many picks have Geelong traded away ?

Keep in mind that the best kids are in the first couple of rounds.

But also there has been little success with later picks and rookie picks.

Sure there are a few kids.
The quality is on the poorer end.

So thats why the club prefers to chase veteran 'seconds' players .

Noone has stuck to a plan.

GT spoke about not trading early picks but the lure of the 'sirens' have led the club astray.
Easy options!

It's a mindset.

[joffaboy]

Priority Pick Riewoldt.
#1 Kosi

2001 - 7 years ago

Priority Pick Luke Ball /pick 2 overall

#pick5 X Clarke

6 years ago

Pick 1 Goddard.

Goddard was pick 3 because Carlton lost their first two

5 years ago

Also brought in by finishing low. Hamill/Gehrig/Black

That far outweighs any father son advantage Geelong had.

7 years ago

Ablett, Ablett, Scarlett, Hawkins - all still playing except N Ablett.

Comparing apples to oranges but carry on..........

Add to that Brookes as afirst and second round pick trade for the Eveerrit deal.
Ackland
McGough
Penny
Guerra
Watts
Gram
Birrs
Schneider
Dempster
Ray

Bolded are gone unbolded play a part in our seniors. I dont get your point. Do we never ever trade for other players???

Want to work out how many first second and third round picks that makes up?

Its your argument, you go and find what we traded and how those players are going for their club. Salopek is the only one I can remember. We got Penny for 17 whom the Dogs used on Faulkner. Hows he going? Who did the Dogs pick up wit #43 for Birss? You saying Gram is no good? Who did Brisbane draft with his pick.

We got Schneider and Dempster for # 26. Who did Sydney get for that pick and how did he go this season? We got great service from Dempster until his knee and Schneider was OK.

You come up with the rest

And with whats left.There iare few earlish picks- Which brings us to "not alot coming through" but yes Geelong had it gifted to the have they?

Is this in English?

How many picks have Geelong traded away ?

You tell us. How did Ottens go? How did Moloney go for the Dees??

Keep in mind that the best kids are in the first couple of rounds.

But also there has been little success with later picks and rookie picks.

Oh look what an Einstein Ahem Montagna, Fisher (AA B&F) to name just two.

Geary, Eddie, Milne, Attard, McQualter have come off the rookie list, all except Milne under the new coach. Considering the coach from three season back never had rookies how can you elevate any off it?????

Fair dinkum

Sure there are a few kids.
The quality is on the poorer end.

HTF would you know? Steven is quality, Eljay will be good, Armo will be very good, McEvoy will take time to develop, Howard is still coming along.

Just a BS statement.

So thats why the club prefers to chase veteran 'seconds' players .

Noone has stuck to a plan.

Apart from Doc Clark ( a fill in after Ackland left) and King who is 28, who has been drafted by Lyon over the age of 23 or 24?

GT spoke about not trading early picks but the lure of the 'sirens' have led the club astray.

Who gives a F*** about Gt he went years ago. Wake up

It's a mindset.

The only mind set is yours that wants us to have 22 18 y.o's in the seniors getting pumped every game for five years.

You really dont understand football very well.

As I said your motherhood statements dont hold up to even the most smallest scrunity.

Really your argument doesn't make sense. You say we should never trade for players. You argue that we have traded dps for players and we would have been better off with those dps, but you can tell us who was taken with those dps and how their careers have fared.

You have 20/20 hindsight that stretches back 7 full years

Really you have no clue. And that is not an opinion, that is not subjective, that is an inarguable fact.

[St Igmata]

Teflon , i think you answered all of the questions and didnt even understand them.

There has been a significant break down in forward planning .
Cousins will not make a difference.
The difference is Cousins will be playing for St Kilda because NOBODY else will touch him.
He will only be wanted here because of the desperation due to the negligence of forward planning over a period of time.
If the ;ist management had of been more prudent there would be no need to chase Cousins.

Cousins was and might be a wonderful footballer but he is one man. He will not be the difference in whether there will be a flag.
The total list will be the difference.

A list that has a very high proportion of FAILED players that have been brught in from other clubs .
The list is totally unbalanced.
Since the Goddard draft apart from Sam Fisher there is nothing there to show for a multitude of National drafts.
One reason for it is the 'mindset' and concentration of ready made duds who have costed the club picks ,(Ive listed them) list space spots and a mindset of drafting and development to a flag.
Cousins or not, the flag looks further away today than it did 5 years ago.

You must build from the foundations up.

Cousins is a massive risk!

He is seen as toxic and all other clubs have refused looking at him.
There are various reasons for this.

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

Message to members from the CEO

4:39 PM Fri 17 October, 2008

Collingwood CEO Gary Pert


Dear members,

In response to the many emails and letters I’ve received from members and supporters regarding whether the Collingwood Football Club plans to recruit Ben Cousins, I would like to clarify the club’s position.

As you would be aware Collingwood has a very clear recruiting strategy to invest in the development of young talent which has been in place for a number of years. While the club will always explore specific opportunities to bring in experienced players to bolster the team, our overriding preference is to recruit youthful talent that will be with the club for the next 10 years.

As highlighted during the recent trade period we evaluated all the potential trade options but refused to compromise our early draft picks, and as a result we will have four picks inside the top 50 (11, 29, 45, 46) in the upcoming AFL draft.

We believe these players along with our existing crop of young stars will form the basis of our next premiership team. For this reason, Ben Cousins is not part of our considerations and draft plans in preparation for the 2009 season and beyond.

Gary Pert
Collingwood Football Club CEO
collingwoodfc.com.au

What a joke... they're trying to throw the whole stinking mess in reverse and claim he's simply too old now... like they only just realized his age.

Oh dear... what's going on down there?

It's called spin MarkP....u know....Warney?? Blowin' smoke outta da a55?? Get over it......



Maybe they think they r not a realistic premiership chance in 2009/2010 and with 4 picks inside 50 and with GC17 on the doorstep it sits well with me.

Tell me...is your premiership window open for the next 1? 2 years?

I know who's youth I'd prefer......therein lays the future.

Cuz = proven champion/extractor/skills in abundance. Weigh that up against one year out of game (not much admittedly), obvious issues which hopefully he is defeating, 30 (nearing 31), hammies - well known.

Scales tipping towards the "do not recruit" side.


Having read this and 1001 other threads to do with Cuz too many assume/generalise/speculate about the so called facts at hand too much when at the end of the day does anyone know what's happening?

MarkP don't need to reveal my sources et al however there is that much spin out there that it would put Warney to shame.

I will patiently await the outcome.

Oh and maybe your WA posters can enlighten u about his "continued" contact with Johnny and Victor Kizon.

Over and out.

[Mr Magic]

Budgie,
You're correct about one thing for sure - none of us know exactly what si going on.

What we do know are the 'facts leaked to the media'.

We also know that your Club, aka Eddie Everywhere's Spin Machine, has so often in teh past 5 years tried to cover-uo, spin and control so many 'off-field' disasters that no=one other than Filth Followers actually believe anyting official coming out of the Lickar$e Centre anymore.

How can you put out a 'presser' stating that you've decided not to pursue BC because of his age, after you've spent weeks and who knows how much money privately investigating his lifestyle? WHat his age wasn't an issue 4 weeks ago but it is now because he's 4 weeks older? COme on Budgie, not even you believe that twaddle being peddled.

And admit it, deep down you know your Club has been 'sticking the knife into Benny-Boy' all week in a very puiblic way so that it can 'appear' not to have again been unable to secure a 'high-profile' recruit.

IMHO, your Club lost all right to wave the moral/ethical finger at teh rest of the Football World when it did nothing about Didak last year. By doing nothing it was tantamount to condoning his actions because he was a very good player.

You may well have the better youth at your Club at this moment in time, but what is not in dispute is the fact that they are being tutored/mentored (whatever term you use) by a bunch of morally bankrupt/corrupt leaders.

There appears only 1 rule at Collingwood - if the player is good enough we'll cover-up anything.

How on earth is Didak still at your Club?
How many last chances has he had?

If I hear/see Eddie bleating with crocodile tears about porr Alan anymore I'll puke.
Wasn't the Millane diaster enough to teach those in charge at Collingwood that you cannot change these guys habits unless you punish them properly for unacceptable behaviour?

The biggest loss you've suffered this season is Scott Burns. At least he appears to be a person of strong character and good morals/ethics - a true role model for your younger players.
What have you got left?
No Buckley
No Clement
No Wakelin
No Burns

All you've got left is Didak!
and Chariman Mickey and Eddie Everyehere

[markp]

It's called spin MarkP....u know....Warney?? Blowin' smoke outta da a55?? Get over it......

You can call it spin on a filth forum if you like, and I can call it what it truly is here... horsesh1t. You get over it.

Spining them like Warney are they???

More like the bowling of our dearly departed little Johnny.... at least his effort landed on the pitch.

"Oh we just worked out he's too old.... "

Pathetic.

[JeffDunne]

Why do people bother debating with this moron?

[plugger66]

Why do people bother debating with this moron?

I didnt say anything.