Brad Howard...

[saint66au]

Yes, I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but what about foresight???

The club needs to spend more money in the recruiting department IMO...

A second round draft pick is very high IMO and I hope Howard gets their...

But players that were picked up after him have already played good senior footy...

Reimers, Kurt Tippett, Josh Hill, Alwyn Davey and Justin Westoff to name a few.

We've got to spend more money in this area IMO

Good point Fid..and on that is be addressed AFAIK. The recruitment Dept's budget under RB was a fraction of what the WCE/Crows/Collingwood were spending. No flitting around the country in chartered light aircraft for us.

[evertonfc]

I was of the impression that we did indeed boost funding for recruitment?

Could one of the club posters please clarify?

[True Blue Sainter]

I was of the impression that we did indeed boost funding for recruitment?

Could one of the club posters please clarify?

We did too I believe Ev. I think it came in when Westaway was elected - which means that was after the draft where we picked up Howard...

[Mr Magic]

I was of the impression that we did indeed boost funding for recruitment?

Could one of the club posters please clarify?

I'm pretty sure that was one of teh first things FFS did after gaining power.
They appointed Peake, kept Bevo onas a consultant and I think increaded spending around the country on part time spotters?

They haven't as yet gotten to CollingFilth's level of sending Emirates Airbus' to wine and dine prospective draftees or Carlscum's use of the Visy private jet, but we're getting there.

I believe they've enquired from Richard Branson about the avaialbility of one of his hot-air balloons?

[SENsei]

As long as the balloon isn't from Steve Fossett's collection.....

[Mr Magic]

As long as the balloon isn't from Steve Fossett's collection.....

I believe there is one avaialable, although it's a little worse for wear!

[B W and R all over]

As long as the balloon isn't from Steve Fossett's collection.....

I believe there is one avaialable, although it's a little worse for wear!

And it wasn't that easy to find.

[duckduckduckgoose]

and by balloon you mean airplane

[saintsRrising]

I was of the impression that we did indeed boost funding for recruitment?

Could one of the club posters please clarify?

We did too I believe Ev. I think it came in when Westaway was elected - which means that was after the draft where we picked up Howard...

No...no no!!!!

Our increased recruiting spend started BEFORE Westaway and FF got in...though hopefully they have upped it???


ie NSW Development Coach appointed a while back with part of his responsibilities to spot NSW talent.

Extra funding to test and screen WA players with own testing...ie Clinton and others were tested..

Hiring the recruiter from the Cats...Peake.

[saintsRrising]

I was of the impression that we did indeed boost funding for recruitment?

Could one of the club posters please clarify?

I'm pretty sure that was one of teh first things FFS did after gaining power.
They appointed Peake, kept Bevo onas a consultant and I think increaded spending around the country on part time spotters?

?

Peake was hired before FF...

Peake was in pace in time to fully evaluate last years draft..

FF only took the reigns late in 2007.

http://www.saints.com.au/Season2007/New ... wsId=42453

Saints appoint Recruiting Manager Vanessa Gigliotti
5:16 PM Wed 02 May, 2007

St Kilda Football Club is pleased to announce the appointment of John Peake as the Club’s Recruiting Manager.

Previous Recruiting Manager, John Beveridge is slightly easing up on his recruiting workload and will take up a role in a Recruiting Advisor capacity, after 24 years at the Saints.

[BigMart]

I do not have a problem with JB and not with BH.....in general, it was

JB made the call on Sam Fisher at #55
Gwilt at #63
Sweeney at #71
Raymond #63
Connors #7?

The pick up of Sam Fisher almost makes up for all the bomb outs...

All seculative selections, not out of the professional TAC cup, or the state league teams where kids show their desire to succeed....Talant is one thing, disciplined talant another....generally elite kids go through elite programs....

Infact JB has almost shunned the TAC cup since 2000....his teams have been Northern, Gippsland, Sandringham...and that's it....was our budget poor....Loads of Qlders, couple of SA's......

Drafting is a science now, not an art IMO....

[spiral2]

I do not have a problem with JB and not with BH.....in general, it was

JB made the call on Sam Fisher at #55
Gwilt at #63
Sweeney at #71
Raymond #63
Connors #7?

The pick up of Sam Fisher almost makes up for all the bomb outs...

All seculative selections, not out of the professional TAC cup, or the state league teams where kids show their desire to succeed....Talant is one thing, disciplined talant another....generally elite kids go through elite programs....

Infact JB has almost shunned the TAC cup since 2000....his teams have been Northern, Gippsland, Sandringham...and that's it....was our budget poor....Loads of Qlders, couple of SA's......

Drafting is a science now, not an art IMO....

I agree that Howard was a poor selection at 27 but those other guys (Gwilt etc) were worth a gamble at those picks. TAC guys at those pics rarely work out either.

if you think we're doing bad have a look at other clubs and the number of high draft picks they ditch (Coll - Egan, Ess - Bradley, Geel - Tenace (soon) etc)

[BallBanger]

I do not have a problem with JB and not with BH.....in general, it was

JB made the call on Sam Fisher at #55
Gwilt at #63
Sweeney at #71
Raymond #63
Connors #7?

The pick up of Sam Fisher almost makes up for all the bomb outs...

All seculative selections, not out of the professional TAC cup, or the state league teams where kids show their desire to succeed....Talant is one thing, disciplined talant another....generally elite kids go through elite
programs....

Infact JB has almost shunned the TAC cup since 2000....his teams have been Northern, Gippsland, Sandringham...and that's it....was our budget poor....Loads of Qlders, couple of SA's......

Drafting is a science now, not an art IMO....

I agree that Howard was a poor selection at 27 but those other guys (Gwilt etc) were worth a gamble at those picks. TAC guys at those pics rarely work out either.

if you think we're doing bad have a look at other clubs and the number of high draft picks they ditch (Coll - Egan, Ess - Bradley, Geel - Tenace (soon) etc)

Agree that most clubs have misses but hey our list is as long as your arm...Brooks, Watts etc etc

JB looked outside the main

[saintsRrising]

I am not so worried where JB looked....it is just that way way too many of his selections have below average footskills.

Something in his latter years went wrong with his identification and screening process.

[spiral2]

I am not so worried where JB looked....it is just that way way too many of his selections have below average footskills.

Something in his latter years went wrong with his identification and screening process.

yeah spot on, how did we get so many shite to average kicks?

still totally dumbfounds me how professional footballers who kick footballs thousands of times a week can struggle to kick with accuracy consistently.
I can understand some guys can kick further than others but surely you can learn accuracy...

[vacuous space]

I am not so worried where JB looked....it is just that way way too many of his selections have below average footskills.

I disagree with the footskills thing. Even JB's smokies had pretty good footskills. Gwilt, Sweeney, Howard - of all their flaws I wouldn't say that kicking was one of them. Gilbert's an ordinary kick, but he makes up for it in other ways. Rix and McGough were later picks in weak drafts. Mini's not the greatest distance kick in the world, but he generally hits a target.

Perhaps if we had cast a wider net in recruiting we'd have found some better players. We might have benefitted from pumping more money into recruiting and actually scouting Western Australia. I'm still of the opinion that our drafting even as late as last year reeks of a club that didn't know what was going on outside its own backyard. I'm hoping that changes this year.

[BigMart]

Seriously, if they were any good, generally they are in a state leauge or the TAC cup. And are well known 4 years before they are drafted, in the 15 state champs....just recruit them out of elite backgrounds, the you will hit more than miss, because the have already passed several squad selections....and must have something.

The word 'smokey' makes me wonder WHY a player is unheard of, and what don't we know.......ie/ Sweeney

[kosifantutti23]

He will be 22 next year and from what I hear he has signed a two year contract, when Eddy was only offered 1...

So, if that's correct, Howard's contract will expire when he turns 24...

Born 21/12/87
He is currently 20
In another 2 years he will be 22.
Not sure when contracts officially expire so he may be 23 at the end of the contract but at the end of the 2010 footy season he will only be 22.

[Spinner]

I am not so worried where JB looked....it is just that way way too many of his selections have below average footskills.

Something in his latter years went wrong with his identification and screening process.

Just a thought ----->

Hawthorn - Every player on that list can kick.

Dew and Guerra - headhunted and re-known for their kicking!!!

[spiral2]

Hawthorn - Every player on that list can kick.

except the most important one

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I do not have a problem with JB and not with BH.....in general, it was

JB made the call on Sam Fisher at #55
Gwilt at #63
Sweeney at #71
Raymond #63
Connors #7?

The pick up of Sam Fisher almost makes up for all the bomb outs...

All seculative selections, not out of the professional TAC cup, or the state league teams where kids show their desire to succeed....Talant is one thing, disciplined talant another....generally elite kids go through elite programs....

Infact JB has almost shunned the TAC cup since 2000....his teams have been Northern, Gippsland, Sandringham...and that's it....was our budget poor....Loads of Qlders, couple of SA's......

Drafting is a science now, not an art IMO....

Personally, I take almost a reverse view but come to the same conclusion re: drafting being a science. My view of drafting is "throw enough mud at the wall, some of it's bound to stick". I credit weight of numbers and opportunity for the number of success stories at Hawthorn, rather than genious. I take the same view of ourselves as to how good the Saints drafting looked in 2004.

My philosophy on smokies however does leave me a bit concerned. Smokies are fine when you've got the sheer number of picks up high. You can get Brett Kirks or Sam Mitchell's off rookie lists, James Hirds low in drafts, or our own Sam FIsher at #55. That's known, that's great. But if we look at the smokies above, in the end it still balances out - if you take the low percentage pick, you may get the upside from time to time, but you're more likely to miss completely or find a borderliner like Gwilt. You've got to put more development into them, and spend 2 years just working out if you've got anything.

The trouble for St Kilda is that for the last 4 years, we've had lower picks to begin with, and haven't been taking a lot of them. While seeking high upside to force it's way into a good team has some appeal, if we're running 4 year development timeframes, it makes progress slow... and 1 Sam Fisher only fills 1 list spot compared to the failed developments of TS40, Matty Ferguson, Barry Brooks, Fergus Watts, and others who would have been seen at one time as "safe" bets.

The pipeline looks okay at the moment, if we're really taking 3-5 picks, we do have room for a smokey... but if we do that smokey needs to be surrounded by safe picks.

That's just playing the odds, and numbers are the basis of making drafting a science.

[saintsRrising]

I am not so worried where JB looked....it is just that way way too many of his selections have below average footskills.

I disagree with the footskills thing. .

Well it is a forum and so you are free to disagree....so if they have good footskills as a group (which I personally do not think they do) how do you explain that so many of them during games do not hit targets as well as other teams do....and also how as a unit that our midfielders have little ability to kick goals on the run?

Take Hayes as a case in point. With good footskills he could be top 5 in the competition...but his footskills let him down.

[BigMart]

Sam Mitchell was taken at #36 in the national draft - not off a rookie list.

The recruitment of Hird, came at a time when the draft was a lottery, and players were drated out of leagues from here say, mates in the know or who many times they got in the paper.

Nowadays - you fill up with talanted kids, drop the ones off who cannot handle the heat of senior footy, and go again next year...

A former coach of our club, who shall remain nameless - told me that for sustained success, you need to keep bringing in talant at the bottom, and the top will take care of itself.

[Bernard Shakey]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me, Big Mart.

[vacuous space]

...if they have good footskills as a group... how do you explain that so many of them during games do not hit targets as well as other teams do?

We did better than most other teams by foot, particularly in the second half of the season. The ability is definitely there.