team round 1 for 2009

[To the top]

R. Clarke is a vital part of the rotations thru the mid-field, attack and defence. He is a class player.

Milne is 28 years of age and, yes, he potted 60 goals for the season but his effort is not consistent and, whilst he improved his football after being dropped he remains limited by the "specialist small forward" description afforded to him.

We have to have the maximum number of players capable of being rotated thru the mid-field and I have a view that the days of the "specialist small forward" are limited.

Football evolves, and when you are 29 years of age (in 2009) and limited to one position being a forward pocket, well, it will not be long and what we need to improve is for Steven to deliver and stamp his presence.

Time waits for no-one, not even Harvey who has now retired.

IF Steven can push Milne aside, we are on the way.

Armitage looks laboured accross the ground, as did Powell before him. Needs to lift from very good at VFL standard to very good at AFL standard and I would have him in the hands of a running coach working on his sprinting.

Blake on a half back flank, but who do you drop?

And Riewoldt is the class player.

We have to build, not languish.

[Solar]

R. Clarke is a vital part of the rotations thru the mid-field, attack and defence. He is a class player.

Milne is 28 years of age and, yes, he potted 60 goals for the season but his effort is not consistent and, whilst he improved his football after being dropped he remains limited by the "specialist small forward" description afforded to him.

We have to have the maximum number of players capable of being rotated thru the mid-field and I have a view that the days of the "specialist small forward" are limited.

Football evolves, and when you are 29 years of age (in 2009) and limited to one position being a forward pocket, well, it will not be long and what we need to improve is for Steven to deliver and stamp his presence.

Time waits for no-one, not even Harvey who has now retired.

IF Steven can push Milne aside, we are on the way.

Armitage looks laboured accross the ground, as did Powell before him. Needs to lift from very good at VFL standard to very good at AFL standard and I would have him in the hands of a running coach working on his sprinting.

Blake on a half back flank, but who do you drop?

And Riewoldt is the class player.

We have to build, not languish.

TTT

how about this. It would be fantastic to see steven being played for a majority of the NAB cup. He has a chance to kick milne out of that position, similar to working howard, geary and ray through the running half back position during the preseason cup.

I would love to see us develop allen and kosi, which would allow roo up the field. His leadership on the ball during that first quarter and a half against the hawks was one of the reasons they burried us. We were leaderless and ran around like chickens with their heads cut off.

armo has the ability to be the inside/outside midfielder but might spend the season working with ball as inside midfielders. This relies on how the rest of our midfield stocks are developed. He kicks a nice goal btw.

[bigcarl]

Montagna Hudgden Gilbert
S. Fisher Maguire Gram
Riewoldt Goddard Hayes
X. Clarke Koschitzke xxxxxxxx
Steven Allen Ball
M. Gardiner DalSanto Cousins

R. Clarke King xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

no milne. schneider or riewoldt in the forward line. c'mon, you're kidding here. between them they kicked 150-odd this season.

the forward line won't improve if we take the reliable avenues to goal out of it.

forward line i'd like to see in 2009:

hf: milne, riewoldt, dal santo
f: kosi, goddard, schneider

all use the ball very well and that's crucial when trying to kick winning scores.

forward line we're likely to get:

hf: gwilt*, riewoldt, schneider
f: kosi, allen#, milne

* like james as a player, but doesn't kick enough goals nor seem likely to begin any time soon. half back or wing i think.

# a likely type, but just 23 goals in a lesser competition this season doesn't bode well. i want to see a lot more in the way of goals before he's considered in one of the most important key positions on the ground.

....

the actual cattle we have forward is only half of the puzzle though. we need to rethink the "numbers behind the ball" thing as half the time our supposed half forwards have chased their opponents into the opposition forward line and we're left with no one forward of the ball.

in general we need to focus less on what our opponents are doing and more on making the play ourselves.

[To the top]

Yep, Solar.

It would be absolutely terrific if players could develop and give us flexibility and attacking avenues accross the park, and Steven could push Milne out.

Because Steven is the future of the club. And Armitage (who is OK on goal and likes one).

Whilst we sit with the view that Riewoldt is our CHF because he kicks 60 goals and Milne is our FP because he kicks 60 goals and Goddard plays accross half back etc. etc. we are not going to challenge and progress.

We need 6 (SIX) players in our forward line at any given time who are ALL capable of scoring mutiple goals and "hero worship" of the 2 who gave us 60 goals each in 2008, dominating our scoring and making us that predictable come the crunch, is not going to achieve that.

You put the acid on others, as Harvey's absence will put the acid on the mids and why it is Goddard's time.

I am certain we have the core cattle ex 3 or 4, it is just a matter of tweaking them and challenging them to deliver - and not in the comfort zones of the positions they have always played in but trying to bring that bit extra to the team so we can progress by an extra week in 2009.

You tread on toes, but that is how you get somewhere.

Those who do not like their toes trodden on are not the ones we want.

WE want those who accept the challenge and return fire, in spades.

So let's ask the questions and get out of the comfort zones.

Because in that final against Hawthorn we were just too predictable and just too easily countered.

We have to take the attack to the competition and have the tools to put other sides on the defensive because they do not know what is coming next.

[bigcarl]

We need 6 (SIX) players in our forward line at any given time who are ALL capable of scoring mutiple goals and "hero worship" of the 2 who gave us 60 goals each in 2008, dominating our scoring and making us that predictable come the crunch, is not going to achieve that.

there's no "hero worship" from me, just the knowledge that these guys are proven goal-kickers.

we need to add others to the equation, not subtract milne and riewoldt from it.

using riewoldt on the wing (or on ball) would leave us without a gun key forward and hawthorn (with two guys who kicked 190 between them) has reminded the competition how important they are.

[To the top]

Take your point Big Carl, but we need to find out what others have got in those positions - Koschitzke may really "fire" further out from goal and Allen may equally "fire" at FF.

And if we have the class running around in the mid-field, giving these players the opportunity because the ball keeps on going in there with purpose, who knows what we may find that we have got?

It is time to put the acid on and not sit with the "knowns".

Sam Fisher came as a CHF from West Adelaide but can St Kilda play him there?

The answer according to certain is "No, because Riewoldt plays CHF".


And that is what I am driving at.

We have to give opportunity and we have to find out.

The team I put says that we find out that we have the ability to structure our side that way - and therefore compete at the next level up.

Whilst we sit there and say "Riewoldt is our CHF and Milne is our forward pocket because they kicked 60 goals each" we are not going to find out if others on our list can deliver the same or similar results - plus Riewoldt will continue to make a presence on the score sheet because he can drift forward, or buttress our defence or be a mid-field target coming out from defence - and then deliver, because Harvey's delivery will be absent and at St Kilda he had no peer.

Sad but true, which is where Goddard becomes so important also.

[crackers35]

If everything goes according to plan with no new injuries and discounting any new arrival accept ray this is how i would like the team to line up come round 1.

FB: Gilbert Hudgton R.Clarke
HB: Fisher Maguire Baker
C: Gram Hayes Goddard
HF: Montagna Riewoldt Armitage
FF: Schneider Allen Milne
RR: King Ball DalSanto

Int: Kochitzke X.Clarke Ray Blake

Emg: Eddy Jones Geary Steven McEvoy

Interesting.

I'd make these swaps
BJ and Joey
Bakes and Raph
Kosi and Allen
and it will be tough to bring back Dempster with that promising backline (bench maybe)

[Spinner]

St Kilda Football Club - 2009

FB: Gilbet Hudghton R Clarke
HB: S Fisher Maguire Gram
C: Dal Santo Hayes X Clarke
HF: Ray Riewoldt Goddard
FF: Montagna Koschitzke Milne
R: M Gardiner Ball Baker
INT: King Blake Schnieder Armitage

Dempster a certain starter bar injury.

Not much else to look forward to once past best 22.

Sidelines: Gwilt, Eddy, McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Allen, Conners, Howard.

Interested in McEvoy, Geary & Steven to see how they progress

[crackers35]

St Kilda Football Club - 2009

FB: Gilbet Hudghton R Clarke
HB: S Fisher Maguire Gram
C: Dal Santo Hayes X Clarke
HF: Ray Riewoldt Goddard
FF: Montagna Koschitzke Milne
R: M Gardiner Ball Baker
INT: King Blake Schnieder Armitage

Dempster a certain starter bar injury.

Not much else to look forward to once past best 22.

Sidelines: Gwilt, Eddy, McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Allen, Conners, Howard.

Interested in McEvoy, Geary & Steven to see how they progress

I reckon if we use that line-up we are destined to go far.

Spinner u genius!

[Spinner]

St Kilda Football Club - 2009

FB: Gilbet Hudghton R Clarke
HB: S Fisher Maguire Gram
C: Dal Santo Hayes X Clarke
HF: Ray Riewoldt Goddard
FF: Montagna Koschitzke Milne
R: M Gardiner Ball Baker
INT: King Blake Schnieder Armitage

Dempster a certain starter bar injury.

Not much else to look forward to once past best 22.

Sidelines: Gwilt, Eddy, McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Allen, Conners, Howard.

Interested in McEvoy, Geary & Steven to see how they progress

I reckon if we use that line-up we are destined to go far.

Spinner u genius!

You have learnt quickly my friend!

[Unforgiven]

Attard when fit is in our best 22. He will be on the list next year ( as they would have cut him last year if they were going to get rid of him ). He will have a full pre season and some NAB games under his belt going into the 09 Season. Was a very handy back pocket in 07', was in our best 22 then, Dempster took over his role this year, and now hopefullyAttard will fill the void that was once being filled for him.

[Con Gorozidis]

If everything goes according to plan with no new injuries and discounting any new arrival accept ray this is how i would like the team to line up come round 1.

FB: Gilbert Hudgton R.Clarke
HB: Fisher Maguire Baker
C: Gram Hayes Goddard
HF: Montagna Riewoldt Armitage
FF: Schneider Allen Milne
RR: King Ball DalSanto

Int: Kochitzke X.Clarke Ray Blake

Emg: Eddy Jones Geary Steven McEvoy

i like it a lot. looks very decent. i am worried that bakes and maguires injuries are quite serious. not sure they will be 100% in round - if ever. hope so though.

i think swap x for cousins . steven and ray will both be chances to be in the 18...

out: x
in: cousins

[bigcarl]

B: Baker (if fit), Hudghton, X. Clarke
HB: Gram, Maguire (if fit), S. Fisher
C: Blake, Hayes, Gilbert
HF: Milne, Riewoldt, Dal Santo
F: Koschitzke, Goddard, Schneider

Foll: King, R. Clarke, Ball
Inter: Montagna, C. Jones, Armitage, Ray.

obviously you'd find a place for cousins if we get him

[Saints94]

FB: S.Fisher M.Hudgton J.Gram

CHB: R.Clarke M.Maguire S.Gilbert

C: B.Goddard L.Hayes L.Montagna

CHF: A.Schnieder N.Riewoldt X.Clarke

FF: S.Milne J.Kozchitzke C.Jones

FOLL: S.King L.Ball N.Dal Santo

INT: M.Gardiner F.Ray J.Blake R.Eddy

EMG: B.Mcevoy J.Steven J.Gwilt

[crackers35]

St Kilda Football Club - 2009

FB: Gilbet Hudghton R Clarke
HB: S Fisher Maguire Gram
C: Dal Santo Hayes X Clarke
HF: Ray Riewoldt Goddard
FF: Montagna Koschitzke Milne
R: M Gardiner Ball Baker
INT: King Blake Schnieder Armitage

Dempster a certain starter bar injury.

Not much else to look forward to once past best 22.

Sidelines: Gwilt, Eddy, McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Allen, Conners, Howard.

Interested in McEvoy, Geary & Steven to see how they progress

I reckon if we use that line-up we are destined to go far.

Spinner u genius!

You have learnt quickly my friend!

I dont know what it was about the team who suggested but it just clicked in mind.
i was gettin all sorts of visions of the great things that could happen with that team.
SUGGEST IT TO ROSS LYON!!!

[Solar]

couple of thoughts over the weekend TTT

the idea of playing chips at CHF is growing on me more and more. We could have him and roo rotating between the 40 metre line out to the wing. Would be a lovely option as a lead up third tall. He reads the play very well, good mark and uses the ball well. Forwards are usually sent down back to learn to read the play and add a defensive side to their game. But it would rely on us being able to replace him on half back.

this is where 3 players will be keys depending on how they come back from injury. I personally like the backline of max and blake as our two shut down tall backs. gilbert is the understudy and will take the third tall. Need to find match ups that compliment his defensive work, ie. a lead up marking forward, not clever small forward. attard or baker are good options to shut down this damaging small forward most good teams have.

So thats our 4 shut down backs, then we need two running creative backs who will float over and cut off thrusts also. Raph showed some great run and creativity from half back and played his best game for the club in this role against the pies. My second option is not BJ, not gram.... it's goose.

maguires skills was always centred around his pack marking, strong hands and long kicking. Does he have the mobility to play as a shut down key back, I'm guessing the injury will never let him get this back. But perhaps the role of loose HB, floating across kicks into the forward line and cutting them off. See gilberts game against the pies as an example of how effective this can be.

This might not come off, baker and attard might never become the backs they were, goose might struggle to get back to AFL level. But having these guys in the roles I gave them would release our B&F down forward in a damaging role, gram to give us run and carry and BJ a whole season to take the comp but the scruff of it's neck......

But agree, we have to not only further develop these players but find the positions that not only suit their strenghts but become a more dangerous unit.

[bob__71]

B: Gilbert Max Baker

HB: Fiora Blake Ray

C: Goddard Hayes Joey

HF: X Roo Raph

F: Milne Fisher Schnider

Fol: Kosi, Ball, Cousins

Int: King, Gram, Armitage, Gwilt


I had a go...this would seem a fair side to me. If Fiora cant stand up to a half back role then he has little to offer. We need some of the lesser lights to stand up and be quality halfbacks.

[Quixote]

B: Gilbert Max Baker
HB: R Clarke Maguire Fisher
C: Gram Ball Goddard
HF: Schnieder Kosi Montagna
F: Milne Roo Allen
Foll: King Hayes Cousins
Int: Dal Santo Blake Ray Armitage


Emg: M Gardiner X Clarke Eddy Jones


(Assuming Dempster out injured till mid-year..)

[milney044]

Roo and Milne out of the forward line? ahh i needed a laugh thanks for that.
We really struggled for goals this year and these 2 were the only ones able to deliver on a regular basis. Milne also contributed a fair bit in the midfield, and enough of calling him inconsistent, he was goaless once the entire season, what more do you want?
I agree we need to get game time into Steven, but i believe he can play in the team with Milne. That way he can ease his way in with pressure released (opponents focused on shutting down milne) meaning by the time Milne retires, Steven will have a lot of experience under his belt rather than putting him straight into the spotlight.

Riewoldt poses the biggest threat in the forward line, honestly when opponents see him lining up on the wing they must be breathing a huge sigh of relief. It's like when Buddy plays up the ground, sure he can still be damaging but it's nothing to what he can do withing range of the goals.

[bigcarl]

Riewoldt poses the biggest threat in the forward line, honestly when opponents see him lining up on the wing they must be breathing a huge sigh of relief. It's like when Buddy plays up the ground, sure he can still be damaging but it's nothing to what he can do withing range of the goals.

yes, a good reason for playing your better players close to goal ... that is where they can hurt the opposition most.

imo, three cheap kicks or possessions across half back is worth one within scoring range.

we've plenty of defensive pressure, how about some scoreboard pressure?

trouble is that most of our forward line is behind the ball most of the time. there's no-one left to kick it to.

[plugger66]

Riewoldt poses the biggest threat in the forward line, honestly when opponents see him lining up on the wing they must be breathing a huge sigh of relief. It's like when Buddy plays up the ground, sure he can still be damaging but it's nothing to what he can do withing range of the goals.

yes, a good reason for playing your better players close to goal ... that is where they can hurt the opposition most.

imo, three cheap kicks or possessions across half back is worth one within scoring range.

we've plenty of defensive pressure, how about some scoreboard pressure?

trouble is that most of our forward line is behind the ball most of the time. there's no-one left to kick it to.

No its because Rooy is a natural forward and should always play there not like others who we try to make into forwards. Having said that didnt you want Rooy on the wing?

[bigcarl]

didnt you want Rooy on the wing?

only if we had capable replacements at chf and ff, and we don't.

he'd play wing beautifully, but playing him there would leave us without any good key forwards.

the premier and benchmark team, on the other hand, has two who kicked 190 between them

[spiral2]

No its because Rooy is a natural forward and should always play there not like others who we try to make into forwards. Having said that didnt you want Rooy on the wing?

what's the definition of a 'natural forward'?
can they only see in one direction? longer hair on one side of their body?

wasn't Kosi a "natural backman" when we got him? g train a wingman?
robert harvey a ruckman?

surely a good player is a good player and good players are versatile and can either immediately apply their skill and brains in different parts of the ground or adapt to playing in new parts of the ground?
Sam Fisher was a forward when recruited, if anything I'd say he had to learn how to be a backman. BJ recruited as a midfielder, now playing back, etc...

[bigcarl]

surely a good player is a good player and good players are versatile and can either immediately apply their skill and brains in different parts of the ground or adapt to playing in new parts of the ground?

agree. they're more versatile than many think. the very good ones usually can play at both ends. it's a matter of whether than can play or not in many cases.

[spiral2]

No its because Rooy is a natural forward and should always play there not like others who we try to make into forwards. Having said that didnt you want Rooy on the wing?

what's the definition of a 'natural forward'?
can they only see in one direction? longer hair on one side of their body?

wasn't Kosi a "natural backman" when we got him? g train a wingman?
robert harvey a ruckman?

surely a good player is a good player and good players are versatile and can either immediately apply their skill and brains in different parts of the ground or adapt to playing in new parts of the ground?
Sam Fisher was a forward when recruited, if anything I'd say he had to learn how to be a backman. BJ recruited as a midfielder, now playing back, etc...

agree. they're more versatile than many think. the very good ones can usually play at both ends.

i agree too. you and I are so freakin right!