3rd Tall Forward ? !!

Eastern · Post: # 662353Post **Eastern** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:02pm

Could we play Sam Fisher in that role? I reckon we could, but a lot of cards would have to fall in our favour to enable it;

Raph Clarke & Sam Gilbert would need to continue to develop as defenders

Goose would need to come back at or near his absolute best

Max would have to stay injury free

Jarryd Allen continues to develop, with a flexibility to play at both ends of the ground

Yes, I am interested in others thoughts !!

Armoooo · Post: # 662355Post **Armoooo** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:06pm

I believe so, he is a good mark and one of our best kicks... Ideally we would play Goddard there but he is needed too much in the centre of the ground...

If Maguire and Hudghton could play a full season each I would have thought that Sam Fisher would be almost certain to spend time up front with Raph and Gilbo playing his role down back...

Dam having another Goddard are two would be nice wouldn't it

iceman · Post: # 662365Post **iceman** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:21pm

i think he is far too valuable as a defender, but would be happy for us if it were to happen to great success. I agree with most of your post, except when Jarryd Allen played in defence at Casey he was next to absolutely embarrassing. I think the inroads he made this season up forward (which he did improve remarkably) are far to important to be trialled down back again.

Armoooo · Post: # 662366Post **Armoooo** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:23pm

Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?

I think his stopping abilities aren't that great and if he were put on a top quality forward we would get beaten more often than not.

IMO his biggest strength was always setting up the play and hitting up his target as well as going for runs... playing on a HFF he is able to do all o that, and maybe even hit a forward on the chest, wouldn't that be nice

plugger66 · Post: # 662370Post **plugger66** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:27pm

Armoooo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?

I think his stopping abilities aren't that great and if he were put on a top quality forward we would get beaten more often than not.

IMO his biggest strength was always setting up the play and hitting up his target as well as going for runs... playing on a HFF he is able to do all o that, and maybe even hit a forward on the chest, wouldn't that be nice

Far from overated unless you think our coaching panel know nothing. Unlike some here I think he should always play back as he is nearly the best in the AFL at getting on his own and setting up play so why do we want to move him to the forward line or in the midfield just in case he is good in those positions. Play your best players in their best positions.

iceman · Post: # 662372Post **iceman** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:32pm

it's my opinion that he does his best work 30m from the opposition goal to the 50m arc at our end, so being a '3rd tall' would be irrelevent if he as to do what you want him to do Armooo and can be extremely beneficial on a HBF. he shouldn't have, however was unfortunate enough to have CHB for the majority of the year, so being on a HBF he wouldn't be required to take opposition 'top quality' forward.

He won our B&F in the backline and I think he is far too valuable there.
But as i said, sometimes these things pay off. I wouldn't touch a thing though at this stage. Not while he's playing like he is.

Otiman · Post: # 662374Post **Otiman** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:34pm

Armoooo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?

2008: AA, B&F.

Armoooo · Post: # 662375Post **Armoooo** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:35pm

I don't believe he should be played in a key back role unless we are desperate.

I also believe that we have players who could do his role well (not as good) on a half back flank...

The way I look at it is playing Raph or Gilbert on the flank were Chips would play will decrease our backline say 10% but if may increase our forwardline 20% if that were the case it would definitely be worth it...

I wouldn't mind seeing it tried out in the NAB cup just to see if it would work...

Otiman · Post: # 662376Post **Otiman** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:36pm

Jason Blake?

Armoooo · Post: # 662377Post **Armoooo** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:39pm

Otiman wrote:
Armoooo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?
2008: AA, B&F.

I'm not saying he's not a great player, I just don't believe his one on one shutdown abilities are as good as they're made out to be...

Con Gorozidis · Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:47pm

i really think jarryd allen is the most important piece of the saints puzzle next year.

if he is no good we will really struggle. if he is decent then we will be pretty good.

we have tried raph, gwilt, c gardner.

fact is on 2004 when we wre good - the g train kicked a ton. so thats 100 goals we need to find - with no real additions to the forward line since then.

so jarryd allen needs to step up. if hes no good we are in trouble.

i really hope hes good.

putting sam fisher up there would be robbing peter to pay paul. we need an extra good player,

Armoooo · Post: # 662380Post **Armoooo** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 6:49pm

We may be in trouble because I don't think Allen is going to kick a tonne next year...

Otiman · Post: # 662385Post **Otiman** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 7:01pm

Armoooo wrote:
Otiman wrote:
Armoooo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks as a defender Sam Fisher is overrated?
2008: AA, B&F.
I'm not saying he's not a great player, I just don't believe his one on one shutdown abilities are as good as they're made out to be...

Has had some reasonable scalps this year.

Pavlich, Lucas, probably more that I can't think of off the top of my head.

Otiman · Post: # 662386Post **Otiman** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 7:03pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:we have tried raph, gwilt, c gardner.

C. Gardiner fair enough as that's the role he has been playing for years.

Raph and Gwilt have been backmen and then thrown into the role. Raph did alright, for what it's worth.

saintsRrising · Sat 11 Oct 2008 7:46pm

3 tall fowards are too cumbersome unless they are all like Roo..

What we need is a medium forward.

I would love O'Keefe...but it is not going to happen..

Mr Magic · Post: # 662397Post **Mr Magic** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 7:59pm

saintsRrising wrote:3 tall fowards are too cumbersome unless they are all like Roo..

What we need is a medium forward.

I would love O'Keefe...but it is not going to happen..

But Sam Fisher could play the O'Keefe role if you could release him from his role down back.

IMHO Gilbo doesn't have his kicking or marking skills, but certainly has his pace and run.
Raph is slightly deficient in comparison with his marking and kicking skills (better than Gilbo's) but doesn't have anywhere near his pace and run.

The player that we are looking for is another Sam Fisher - 190cms of marking. kicking, running and 'footy smarts'.
Maybe it's Luke Miles off our Rookie List?

Raven · Post: # 662398Post **Raven** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 8:01pm

Why is it that every time one of our players has a good period or year we want to move him forward?

Con Gorozidis · Sat 11 Oct 2008 8:09pm

Raven wrote:Why is it that every time one of our players has a good period or year we want to move him forward?

cos we are desperate for a forward since we no longer have the g train and kosi is not as good as wed hoped.

Con Gorozidis · Sat 11 Oct 2008 8:10pm

Armoooo wrote:We may be in trouble because I don't think Allen is going to kick a tonne next year...

dont need a ton. but 35-50 would be nice.

jackal · Post: # 662407Post **jackal** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 8:11pm

Gilbert will make a better forward then backman and you would suspect that he will play more up the ground next year if we have a fit Maguire and (hopefully touch wood) Luke Miles (looked like he could make the grade from what i have seen).

Gilbert can kick goals and wil put pressure on inside 50 but he has troubole on quality small forwards (see Williams and S.Johnson ).

He is actually quite good at reading the ball in the air and has good hands but s***s himself when he knows the opposition mids are going to kick to his opponent one out.

skeptic · Post: # 662408Post **skeptic** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 8:11pm

IMO we're seriously wasting Sam giving him an easy role down back. We need someone to step up forward and I think he's the man.

We just desperately need a player to fill that void

dcstkfc · Post: # 662410Post **dcstkfc** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 8:13pm

GODDARD

FortiusQuoFidelius · Sat 11 Oct 2008 8:13pm

If any of our backmen go forward I would suggest it be Goose...

bigcarl · Post: # 662419Post **bigcarl** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 8:37pm

we need to find a goal-kicking full forward if we are to challenge the reigning premier and benchmark team hawthorn.

they had two key forwards who kicked 190 goals between them.

we had one who kicked 60-odd.

i'm not convinced allen is the answer, at least not yet.

he's a likely type, but kicked just 23 goals for casey last season.

i'd like to see more in the way of goals before we throw him into one of the most important key positions on the ground.

there's a good argument for playing one of your best players at full forward.

hawthorn does it.

it's not a position to be taken lightly or just filled with someone who cannot cut it for a spot on the half back line.

if it were my choice, i'd have goddard there.

bj would make us look that much more potent scoring-wise.

i reckon can we cover him in the midfield and we must if we are to challenge free-wheeling and high-scoring teams such as hawthorn and geelong.

ross has been in the job long enough now to start taking some chances and to try to win a few matches with his better players in attacking positions rather than trying to lock teams down all the time.

the forward line i'd like to see:

hf: milne, riewoldt, dal santo
f: kosi, goddard, schneider

spiral2 · Post: # 662444Post **spiral2** » Sat 11 Oct 2008 9:13pm

I think the key is versatility
if some of our backmen are capable of playing forward when the match-ups suit then why not? goddard, gilbert, raph, chips, goose and even grammy could all be damaging in the front half. I'm not suggesting all the time but if we can mix it up and throw these guys around then why not?

the most dangerous aspect of Hawthorn's forward line was the number of options - Buddy, Roughhead, Williams, Rioli, Brown

don't forget Frase was full back before he was a dual coleman medalist
how do we know that Sam wouldn't make a better forward than backman? he was a forward when recruited.
I think anything is worth a try and I'm desperate to see some quality support for Roo in the forward line. It's far to easy to shut our forward line down at the moment - stop Roo and Milne = stop St Kilda kicking a decent score.

if we can cover chips down back then why not throw him forward at times? he's got all the skills to be a quality forward.