the myth about our bottom six....

[stinger]

well....myth or no myth.....our bottom six or seven from the finals this year should be replaced next year by cousins, ray, ball, baker. dempster, maguire and a fit x......


......that's an extra 80 odd kicks or handpasses going into the forward half of the ground....


...the futures not all bad....

[Eastern]

Good point, although Dempster will miss a large chunk of the year and big ?'s hang over the fitness of Maguire & Baker !!

[stinger]

Good point, although Dempster will miss a large chunk of the year and big ?'s hang over the fitness of Maguire & Baker !!

he thinks he will be back sooner...rather than later...take your point on the other two......but i'm an optimist at this time of the year.....

[Eastern]

Good point, although Dempster will miss a large chunk of the year and big ?'s hang over the fitness of Maguire & Baker !!

he thinks he will be back sooner...rather than later...take your point on the other two......but i'm an optimist at this time of the year.....

As we all are................Hold On......As most of us are..............Hold On......As some of us are !!

[mick13]

Bottom 6: Eddy, McQ, Jones (?), Fiora...

Who else?

[Eastern]

Bottom 6: Eddy, McQ, Jones (?), Fiora...

Who else?

For a while Raph & Gilbo. They may have jumped up after their finals performances !!

[stinger]

i said it was a myth...never thought we had six who weren't up to it....well not against the filth anyway.....

[Otiman]

That's six not including dempster.

Harvey retired
Fiora played in the prelim
Jones
Eddy
McQualter
Gwilt

[dcstkfc]

i think we're jumping the gun a tad on cousins.
would be great to have him though.

[Saintforever]

Fiora will maybe play one or two games next year!Ammo and Ray will get more games...Attard will release Gram to midfield...and Godard will blitz in the centre...Cuz if signed will play game time like Harvs did this year.

[super dooper]

Goose - lets be honest, very little expectation there, wouldnt be suprised if he breaks down again

Bakes - very important - hope he can slot back in nicely

Ball - CRITICAL - enough said

Xavier - lets be serious here, which other top 8 side would he slot straight into??? potential is fantastic when they are 18,19, 20, but he has been in the system long enough now and HAS to deliver!

Ray - jury still out on his ability, prob just slot into that "bottom 6".

Cousins - well lets just get him first before we claim him.

What happens when injury strikes???
Those "lesser" players are back in the side!

The problem doesnt lie around this "bottom 6" theory. Put it simple we have too many GOP's and dont have an abundance of promising youth that look like taking a game or two apart.

Maqualter*
CJ*
Allen
Gwilt*
Gilbert*
Birss*
Eddy*
Fiora*
C.Gardiner
Rix
Geary
Howard

Too many of this group are getting consistent games (*).

Those players above need to become "seasoned" players and not play a good game every now and then. To be honest i dont see too much room for improvement in that list. I simply cannot envision those listed on a premiership dias.

To me, the future looks a little bleak with limited talent actually coming through. Even with the inclusion of a couple players to the team we presented on pre lim final night we are still off the mark in a race for a premiership.

That "window" is ALMOST shut (IMO it is shut) now and we are in a similar position to carlton of 99-01. Had some stars but kept on trying to top up to give it a shake - its short term gain for long term pain!!

Hence going for the likes of Cousins is a waste of time imo.

Put the resources into building a 200 game midfielder for STKFC!!

[Legendary]

From our Preliminary Final "22":

OUT: Harvey, Fiora, Gwilt, McQualter, Eddy

IN: Cousins, Ray, Ball, Baker, X. Clarke

[Eastern]

Is it true that BOTH Luke Ball & Jack Steven played the same ammount of senior games in their first year at the club? That number = 0

Worth some thought ??? !!

[groupie1]

'bottom 6 need to go out' issue.

I see it like this:
McQual, Fiora, Jones, Eddy clearly not premiership players, at least not yet for the latter two, not ever for the former.
Gwilt and Raph could be good - faith in those blokes.

I'd replace the former 4 plus Harvs with
Ray, Ball, Baker, Cousins, Stevens or M Gardiner or X, if X comes good

(Would have been good to get Corey Jones)

Raph and Gwilt considered borderline and need to show improvement.

If Maguire comes good he can replace Gilbert/Gwilt if form justifies it, but I personally can't see Maguire back, unless its as a forward.

And I would manufacture a marking half forward player out of Dal Santo.

Point of this thread is good - replacing Harvey, McQual, Fiora, Jones, Eddy with Cousins, Ball, Baker, Ray, and X/Stevens/M Gardiner IS a significant improvement

[Red]

So Eddy can't play but Stevens can even though he hasn't played an AFL

game.

[groupie1]

Subtlety and nuance passes some of us by, doesn't it...

You'll clearly see, if you look more closely:

- Eddy clearly not premiership player YET

- Steven OR M Gardiner OR X

[mad saint guy]

2009 excluding PSD picks and assuming Goose continues on his recent trend (disappointing comeback followed by injury):

B: Blake, Hudghton, R.Clarke
HB: Gram, Gilbert, S.Fisher
C: Dal Santo, Hayes, Montagna
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, X.Clarke
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Allen

Foll: King, Ball, Goddard
Int: Armitage, Baker, Jones, Ray

Bottom 6
Armitage - Relief midfielder who struggles to get the ball. Potential for improvement though
Baker - Slow GOP tagger
Jones - Runner who can't kick
Ray - Very outside player who makes bad decisions
Allen - Unproven kid, but the only option
X.Clarke - Inconsistent, fragile flanker

We've got a solid top 6 list, but I can't see us challenging Geelong or Hawthorn in September. I feel that the Bulldogs have also passed us and Carlton are very close.

[plugger66]

Subtlety and nuance passes some of us by, doesn't it...

You'll clearly see, if you look more closely:

- Eddy clearly not premiership player YET

- Steven OR M Gardiner OR X

Maybe I dont understand but everyone who plays in a premiership side is a premiership player but that doesnt mean they are alll good enough to get a game in other sides sides that year.

[True Blue Sainter]

Is it true that BOTH Luke Ball & Jack Steven played the same ammount of senior games in their first year at the club? That number = 0

Worth some thought ??? !!

Bally did play 1 game I'm pretty sure in his first year - and we got absolutely slaughtered by Essendon (99 pts if the memory serves me correctly).

[plugger66]

Is it true that BOTH Luke Ball & Jack Steven played the same ammount of senior games in their first year at the club? That number = 0

Worth some thought ??? !!

Bally did play 1 game I'm pretty sure in his first year - and we got absolutely slaughtered by Essendon (99 pts if the memory serves me correctly).

No.

[True Blue Sainter]

Is it true that BOTH Luke Ball & Jack Steven played the same ammount of senior games in their first year at the club? That number = 0

Worth some thought ??? !!

Bally did play 1 game I'm pretty sure in his first year - and we got absolutely slaughtered by Essendon (99 pts if the memory serves me correctly).

No.

Yep you're right. Don't know where that memory comes from...

[groupie1]

Plugger, you're right about that, but I think the use of the term 'premiership player' is shorthand for 'type of player likely to contribute to bringing the club a premiership/good enough to be selected in a side good enough to win a premiership'

Damian Monkhorst was a premiership player

[iceman]

The myth and whatever you want to say about the bottom six doesn't matter, the bottom line is getting stronger players into the side which creates a more powerful team. Look at Geelong 2007 vs. 2008

King - Blake
Wojac - Varcoe
Ablett - Lonergan
Byrnes? - Taylor
Plus an underdone Chapman.

That right there was the difference between them possibly going back to back and not,

so adding Ray, Ball, Baker possibly Dempster, Maguire, X depending on injury and form and it does look much better, then when we get injuries we still have players capable of finishing top 4.

[Mr Magic]

Plugger, you're right about that, but I think the use of the term 'premiership player' is shorthand for 'type of player likely to contribute to bringing the club a premiership/good enough to be selected in a side good enough to win a premiership'

Damian Monkhorst was a premiership player

So was Matty Capuano
Brent Guerra
Stewart Dew
Gilham
Renouf

and countless other GOP's who would have struggled to make other teams the year they played in premierships.

Alternatively
Tony Lockett
Gary Ablett
Robert Harvey
Nathan Buckley
Bobby Skilton
and countless other legends of our game are not premiership players who would all walk into every other team in teh competition in their eras.

[maverick]

Its not our bootm six that are the problem, its our top 6.

We played 3 finals.

Our top 6 roughly:

Roo
S Fisher
Hayes
Dal Santo
BJ
Ball

None of them dominated the finals, only Hayes and Fish had a good finals series really. Yeah Bally didn't play, but that's his issue.

This is our problem, our best aren't good enough, certainly weren't this year anyway.

The Hawks won the GF with a superior gameplan and their very best players either dominating or playing specific roles that got them the choccies.

Cousins would instantly move into our top 3 or 4 I would have thought, that's our issue I reckon.

Our B&F top ten tells the story.