Thoughts on Farren Ray

[stinger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we now have 47 and 48? I look at that and think we really, really should have moved that pick on for Harris or Boyle.

.

we will use one of them for benny......

[stinger]

Too true, I don't seem to remember everyone being as keen for Cyril Rioli and Joel Selwood this time in the last 2 years...

go back and look at my posts before making those assertions ffs....

[st.byron]

A bit of an over reaction there Wayne.

THAT WAS NOT AN OVER REACTION AT ALL!
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE ACCUSING SOMEONE OF OVERREACTING, IF THATS THE KIND OF PERSON YOU ARE YOU CAN PISS OFF, WE DON'T NEED YOUR TYPE AROUND HERE EITHER!!


just joking [/quote]

Yeh you're right Armoo. I'm a total knob. Serial over-reacting emotive tosspot. What to do, it's a free forum.

[st.byron]

Just what we need another light bodied soft mid who has poor disposal by foot .
Would love to be wrong but cant see us improving with him in the side

Well for a start he is currently better than Armitage, Eddy, McQualter, Jones, Allen and Fiora - all of whom played finals footy for us this year.

He's only 22, has played plenty of games, is ultra-fit, so far injury free. His frame seems like it could do with a bit more muscle so his best may be 3 or 4 years away yet.

And the price? 16 or so draft picks. Great value IMO

Agree 100%. Well worth the risk. He's ready to go. Averaging 20 possessions a game in 2008 in a gun high class mid-field. Astute trading once again by Lyon and his team.

[Armoooo]

Too true, I don't seem to remember everyone being as keen for Cyril Rioli and Joel Selwood this time in the last 2 years...

go back and look at my posts before making those assertions ffs....

Sorry, I wasn't speaking about you, from memory you were one of the biggest supporters of Cyril along with Saintbot, I was keen but I was hoping for Rance, he still hasn't debuted as far as I know, that just shows how much I know about junoir footy...

Sorry if you thought i was having a dig at you...

[WayneJudson42]

Another Sharon !! soft at the man, soft at the footy, "a quick winger and good overhead". Ahigh draft pick in his year. Sound like any one?

Too Soft

We now have Sharon Fiora and Sharon Ray. Very dissapointed in this trade.

Give the kid a chance? Or will you continue your life as a keyboard hero, sooftcokk loser?

Dissapointed? Go supprt another club, tosspot. We don't need your type.

A bit of an over reaction there Wayne.

Why? The kid has just been traded, and the best that some cabbages can do is write him off and create stupid names for him.

Idiots like that should either p1ss off, or grow up IMO.

I don't care who the player is, or how bad he is... sure analyzie them in a "footy" sense, but, let's cut out the childish cr@p.

Overeaction? Nah... I actually held back.

[saintsRrising]

Interesting that he and Cooney where taken in the same draft...and that Conney had his break-out year this year...but that ray is 6 months younger than Coony.

Now Cooney wasa clear No 1...so I am not saying or implying that Ray will ever be as good as Cooney...just that there is good upside in him.

At 187cm he is good height for a mid.....and he contrasts well with our exisiting mids.

We lacked run in our midfield...and Ray may well be able to supply it.

[St Fidelius]

Interesting that he and Cooney where taken in the same draft...and that Conney had his break-out year this year...but that ray is 6 months younger than Coony.

Now Cooney wasa clear No 1...so I am not saying or implying that Ray will ever be as good as Cooney...just that there is good upside in him.

At 187cm he is good height for a mid.....and he contrasts well with our exisiting mids.

We lacked run in our midfield...and Ray may well be able to supply it.

sRs..

I suggested in another thread that Ray has IMO improved in every year at the Dogs and although he may not be another Montagna, has started about the same in the first couple of years and Ray is over 2 years younger..

One never knows, given more opportunity he will develop and keep improving...

a good get IMO

[Mr Magic]

Can anyone enlighten me please?
Is Ray a similar sort of player to Cooneu in that they are both outside runners rather than 'in and under' players?
If so he may weell have suffered at WB over the past couple of seasons in that Cooney was given more opportunity in their gameplan to 'shine'.
Who are teh WB 'in and under players? West, Cross, anybody else?
Who are their outside players? Cooney, Gia, Higgins, Aker, Ray

It amy well be that they had a surplus of similar type players and he just wasn't getting enough opportunities?

WHo do we have in similar roles?
Dal (tagged y just about every Club because he is recognized as our only true outside mid 'distributor' of the footy, Joey and ?
Our other outside mids are 'manufactured HBF Goddard and Gram.

It may well be that the List management people have seen an opportunity to grab Farren Ray to give us something we currently don't have. - an alternative for when Dal is being tagged out of the game?

[Batnoe]

i wouldnt say cooney is an outside mid, he is always in there getting the hard stuff but also very good in forward line

They are different players... They have


Cross, Boyd, Cooney and Griffen,- Ray could well fit in there but it is hard to fit 5 similar players on the one team

[Teflon]

This seemed reasonably balanced from a Dogs fan re Ray. Note hes not a burst speed player but can run and carry the ball. Decision making/disposal is my major worry....and I do recall him turning it over a tad....but hes 22 so has the time. Im also not sure we have "enough" as others seem to think of these "in and under" mids. IMHO we have Hayes/Ball. We lost Ball in finals and Hawks murdered us out of there......Ray would appear to be a player that needs to be fed...

Still not sure how well weve done here...

******************

Little surprised The Saints went after Ray, I thought they may have sniffed around Lovett or perhaps Prismall.

Ray's disposal and decision making is why he isn't at The Dogs still. It simply didn't improve since he first arrived at the club. Obviously you will work on it with him, but I'm not particularly sure it's repairable. His ball drop is horrible and it's why he turns it over on either foot regularly.

His injury pre-season really didn't help though. He added size and was looking in good shape, then he injured himself and he didn't look half the player. He's a strong mark and he's not soft. He's capable of run with roles from time to time because his endurance is a huge asset. Pace isn't one; not sure why people keep claiming he's fast. He covers ground reasonably quickly, but it's all in the same gear - he doesn't 'burst' away from packs, but as said previously, he is a 80m player in that he'll carry it 40m and kick it 40m. If he could hit his targets more often, he'd be very dangerous. Perhaps having Riewoldt & Kosi up forward may make it easier for him to execute.

You've got him for a bargain, it must be said. He has some flaws that he really needs to improve if he's going to play better football, but he still has upside, especially considering he's only 22. Not too sure he could play off a half back, as Ross suggested, but time will tell.

Saints have done well with this one, I'm hoping we're able to pick up two gems with Picks 31 & 32 so as we don't completely lose out in this trade.

****************************

[SainterK]

As I said on another subject about this...

RL sounded quite optimistic about this trade, it was kind of contagious given that the guy rarely get's excited beyond finding things "pleasing"

I also mentioned Matthew Drain's connection with Farren during his time at the Doggies, maybe he is privvy to something that we're not?

[Teflon]

The ONLY concern I have with Ray from reading ALL Bulldogs fans posts on him and Colin Wisebys write up on him when drafted is his disposal.

Time and again they said he runs 50meters with the ball and turns it over and isnt a good shot forgoal on the run (dont we have enough of these?).

Im not down on the guy i personally am not a fan of teaching people even at 22 how to kick - to me its a skill some naturally posess and its more important than speed. Whats the point of being a dasher if you cant hit the target?

Be interesting to see what goes at 31 on the day.
Its quite a wait from 13 to 48?....

Good luck Farren - I do hope you improve our depth but geez even in that lot we have so many who arent renowned for their foot skills its actually frightening.

[Armoooo]

Jeez, I really hope the plan for the pre-season training is simply, run, kick, run, kick, kick on the run, kick with your opposite foot, run....

Our players simply need more run in their legs and more accuracy with their disposal, we finally seem to have come to grips with the game plan, we just need the skill to execute it effectively against the big 2...

[ace]

F----ing Ray if he turns out no good.
Ray of Hope if he comes good.

Don't we have someone on our recruitment team who came over from the Doggies. Maybe the same guy who took Ray at pick 4 in the "no talent" 2003 draft.

This leaves St Kilda with picks 13, 47, 48, 63, 79, 95 (depending on how many players they wish to take).

In practice that means picks 13, 47, 48, 63.
Pick 79 may be advanced by other clubs not using their round 5
This pick may well be exercised to select a smokey or to redraft a delisted player.

[SainterK]

F----ing Ray if he turns out no good.
Ray of Hope if he comes good.

Don't we have someone on our recruitment team who came over from the Doggies. Maybe the same guy who took Ray at pick 4 in the "no talent" 2003 draft.

This leaves St Kilda with picks 13, 47, 48, 63, 79, 95 (depending on how many players they wish to take).

In practice that means picks 13, 47, 48, 63.
Pick 79 may be advanced by other clubs not using their round 5
This pick may well be exercised to select a smokey or to redraft a delisted player.

Our football manager Drain worked with Ray at the Doggies, this could be good though...

How about Farren "quicker than a ray of light"

[Otiman]

What is the worth of our trade deal?

It's hard to determine the worth of a pick upgrade for a player.

Would #31 for #48 have been worth the same as trading them #47 on its own?

Is a first round upgrade of the same # difference worth more than a 2nd or 3rd round upgrade?

[The OtherThommo]

When it comes to placing arbitrary limits on the picks we'll use, it might be worth listening to what Lyon said - "we still have 6 picks and we'll use them all".

When it comes to the Dogs discarding Ray, it might be worth considering the fact they have a truckload of blokes between 180 and 190 who run and carry. Ray had as many running bounces at the Dogs as anyone. He finds space and he carries. Disposal ain't great but, shyte, this isn't the deal of the century. He gives us a player type we don't have too many of, from a club that has too many. That's why they have trades, FFS.

He's 22 with a good tank and we've just lost the greatest ball carrier of all time. It's worth a try.

And don't be surprised if one of the really high number picks is used for a coot named Ben.

Isn't this fun.

[MasonCJ2]

Ah ha ha. Love the black and white with most people. And for those that have labelled Ray as quick, ha, watch some footy or don't bother posting and wasting people's time. I'd suggest he's probably a mover more like a Dal Santo in terms of lack of genuine pace but some capacity to shuffle. He has obvious ability to have been taken at 4, but has never really demonstrated that at senior level. Disposal averages can be a little irrelevant but I have a very strong opinion that this guy is very dependent on confidence levels. If we were to continue to push for top 4 he may well be quite impressive, but there was that chance that he'll put in some seasons that the Clarke brothers have. There is some definite upside to this trade, but he really needs to become more than just a regular otherwise we have wasted a chance to keep pushing upwards. I'm reasonably confident that he'll be a top 22, but it is how far into that 22 that will balance this out.

[brewski]

Welcome to the Saints! Farren

good luck for 2009

[sax]

Thought he was soft!
Not a bad grab backing into a pack!



Not slow either! "Comes second" in this "FOOT RACE" against Richmond, to lay a shepherd for Boyd!

[Batnoe]

Funny how that picture actually looks likeRyan Griffin

Farren looks a bit different to that.....i thought

[Batnoe]

the picture on westofmoorabbin looks like Harry Kewell

[Lenny_Hayes7]

LOL LOL

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Farren Ray could go either way with Saints fans. He's got the kind of run & receive game that looks really good when it works, and looks really bad when it doesn't.

Some of the pre-draft thoughts people have posted are interesting. The hope I suppose will be that if/when we get a bit stagnant, he won't stop running.

What I like about the trade is this: Farran Ray is right at the age and circumstance for a breakout season. He's blooded, he knows what AFL level is about and he's going to be hungry to step up. Coming off a disturbed preseason, we may have managed to pick him up when his value was at it's lowest.

What I don't like is this: I've never really rated Farran Ray. He's a competent AFL player, but he really needs to handle pressure better, he seems to panic at least as often as he hits a damaging target. While he can find the ball at half back, he's not exactly someone opposition clubs have put a lot of thought into preventing from getting touches, because compared to a Gilbee, a Cooney or a Gia, the runs he starts just aren't that dangerous.

He does have the attributes to be an effective player... what's apt about the Fiora comparison though is that both have undeserved reps for being soft, but more importantly, both pick up the ball on the outside, and don't do enough with it. He's better defensively that Fiora, so it's an upgrade right now (Ray's in our best 22)... but this pickup in my mind is a cheap gamble on potential, and may well prove our next whipping boy, deserved or not.