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Saints to push Dogs for Cordy
Emma Quayle, Canberra | October 2, 2008
AT LEAST two clubs are prepared to bid a first-round draft pick on young ruck prospect Ayce Cordy, meaning the Western Bulldogs will have to part with their first choice, No. 14, to secure the teenager as a father-son selection.
St Kilda — which holds pick 13 in the national draft — is definitely willing to part with that choice under the bidding system introduced last year, and will bid for Cordy, while a couple of other clubs including Adelaide are also considering it.
Under the new system, if a rival club puts its hand up for a father-son prospect, the nominating club must use its next choice in the draft, regardless of rounds, to choose him. If the club decides to pass on a player, the club that made the bid is bound to follow through with it. The Bulldogs' rivals are not going to let the club get away with using their second-round pick for the highly rated Cordy.
Last year, Essendon was forced to use a third-round choice on Darcy Daniher after North Melbourne bid for him for an earlier pick, while Adam Donohue and Jaxson Barham were able to be chosen with Geelong and Collingwood's final choices, after no rival club made offers.
While the first round of the draft is considered very strong, and Cordy has not played since May after undergoing a shoulder reconstruction, Matthew Drain would have a strong understanding of his talents, having been the Bulldogs' football manager until this season.
The 202-centimetre Cordy, whose father Brian played 124 games for the Bulldogs during the 1980s, played some games for the Geelong Falcons last year as a 16-year-old and toured South Africa earlier this year with the AIS-AFL Academy.
Father-son nominations are due to be lodged with the AFL tomorrow, with the bidding on Monday morning, before trade week begins.
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No! We don't need a bloody ruck. We should be right for ruckmen for the time being. We need to focus more on midfielders.
To be honest the only ruckman I'd want to take with pick 13 is Tyrone Vickery if he happens to slip. However I havn't seen any footage of Ayce Cordy as he suffered a shoulder injury early in the season.
Emma Quayle is generally a very reliable source come draft time so I guess we better hope the Bulldogs rate him high enough to use their first rounder.
SaintBot wrote:To be honest the only ruckman I'd want to take with pick 13 is Tyrone Vickery if he happens to slip. However I havn't seen any footage of Ayce Cordy as he suffered a shoulder injury early in the season.
Emma Quayle is generally a very reliable source come draft time so I guess we better hope the Bulldogs rate him high enough to use their first rounder.
I too was quite impressed with Vickery at the U/18 Champs... if he slipped through to our pick, he'd be worth some serious consideration, although I consider a silky, pacy midfielder to be of higher importance come draft day...
Surely we couldn't use our first draft pick on a ruckman two years in a row. At this rate we'll have more ruckmen on the list than midfielders.
Elite midfielders win premierships and we don't have any. Our number one priority should be finding midfielders who can get the ball, run with it and hit a target.
Our defence is very good. Maybe an extra tall and maybe a shut down player could be drafted in case Maguire and Attard/Dempster don't recover well, but it's not a priority.
Our forward line is lacking a reliable goalkicker and a medium forward but hopefully either Kosi or Allen can become the goalkicker and we can snare an O'Keefe/Pettifer/Jones in trade week. A good midfield will make the forward line look much, much better.
Then our rucks are ok with King and Gardiner two strong options. Blake and Kosi can provide backup while McEvoy and possibly van Rhenen and McGrath are developing.
The midfield is the big concern. Hayes and are battlers who get plenty of the ball but have ordinary skills. Dal Santo can't have an impact when he has a tagger and that also goes for Joey, but to a lesser extent. We have no answer to the class and strength of teams consisting of Ablett/Bartel/Corey/Selwood/Ling and Hodge/Mitchell/Bateman/Lewis/Sewell.
mad saint guy wrote:Surely we couldn't use our first draft pick on a ruckman two years in a row. At this rate we'll have more ruckmen on the list than midfielders.
Elite midfielders win premierships and we don't have any. Our number one priority should be finding midfielders who can get the ball, run with it and hit a target.
Our defence is very good. Maybe an extra tall and maybe a shut down player could be drafted in case Maguire and Attard/Dempster don't recover well, but it's not a priority.
Our forward line is lacking a reliable goalkicker and a medium forward but hopefully either Kosi or Allen can become the goalkicker and we can snare an O'Keefe/Pettifer/Jones in trade week. A good midfield will make the forward line look much, much better.
Then our rucks are ok with King and Gardiner two strong options. Blake and Kosi can provide backup while McEvoy and possibly van Rhenen and McGrath are developing.
The midfield is the big concern. Hayes and are battlers who get plenty of the ball but have ordinary skills. Dal Santo can't have an impact when he has a tagger and that also goes for Joey, but to a lesser extent. We have no answer to the class and strength of teams consisting of Ablett/Bartel/Corey/Selwood/Ling and Hodge/Mitchell/Bateman/Lewis/Sewell.
aree. scares the hell out of me if this is how they are rating mcevoy internally. youd thing if they rated mcevoy they would not even consider another ruck.
one thing i know is we need another mid - i pray jack steven and armo are decent.
and allen is the KEY to out future right now. if he ends up good - and helps roo out up forward - it will really make us formiddable. if hes no good and we are still relying on roo all he time we will struggle. GO ALLEN.
mad saint guy wrote:Surely we couldn't use our first draft pick on a ruckman two years in a row. At this rate we'll have more ruckmen on the list than midfielders.
agree. we need a good full forward and a goal-kicking half forward, and you can never have too many good midfielders.
i'd place ruck much lower on our list of priorities. king had a good season, kosi is capable of having an impact around the ground and mcevoy has plenty of potential.
As I have said on other threads, the Lyon game plan - like that of the Swans - revolves around launching attacks from winning clearances at stoppages or otherwise from run out of the backline. Either way, the aim is to get the ball out to outside receivers who have worked their way clear of their markers.
Either way, there isn't much room for "elite midfielders" in this setup: the Swans certainly haven't had any for a fair while (Williams I guess was the closest in recent times). Lyon has clearly shown a bias towards hard working and lockdown midfielders: look at the rise and rise of Jones, Eddy and McQualter: the only other leading club at which these three would ever have Buckley's of getting a senior game would be the Swans. Lyon has also struggled to work out how to fit Dal and Joey into this game plan, and has only recently started to appreciate that BJ is better value as a mid rather than as an attacking back.
Having a ruckman who can dominate the hitouts is also critical to this game plan. Assuming that Gardi is moving on, we only really have one such at the club in King. Correct me if I'm wrong, but McEvoy to me looks to be more of the Kosi type of versatile tall who can also ruck. So another genuine ruckman is worth pursuing in the draft IMO.
BTW, while I have been highly critical of Lyon's game plan in the past, I am increasingly of the view that - in "modern footy" it is especially important to have creative players behind the ball who can win the ball, make evasive runs and deliver the ball to players in the clear or into space to running contests (but never, ever to marking contests in the back half).
Lyon seems to be onto this in a big way and - after experimenting with Gram, Sam F, BJ, Dal and Dempster in this role, just might (fingers crossed) have found the solution in Raph: who, for mine, seems to get the "quarterback" role.
Anyway, I've rambled off topic, but my point is that it would be sensible to keep looking at young ruckmen in the draft. But we should be going after Cousins and another forward as well (but preferably not ROK, unless he is dirt cheap).
If they take another ruckmen u might as well pack ur bags and bugger off for 8 years. Because that is how long it takes for a ruckmen to hit his peak.
If Ross takes another ruckmen then he could be laying claims to be the first coach sacked next year. It will be the worst thing the club ever does.
As i have said before choosing ruckmen with ur first pick is like going to the track having never seen a horse and back a 100 to 1 outsider.
What ias happening at St Kilda. Let Peakes do his job if u believe him capable. Stop making the draft fit us and take the best talent available at ur pick.
saintsrus wrote:Lyon said in an interview before the crows game that we will pick up a ruckman with our first pick
Perhaps the midfielders are already done and dusted
I have heard a whisper that Cuzy has said that a deal was done quite some time ago and he WILL be playing out his career in Melbourne next year and if that is with us then why not go for a ruckmen.
Time will tell, I just hope we get the best out of this draft no matter how we get it done.
I very much doubt cousins has had a deal done for a long time, I suppose we will find out Monday if the saints will ut a bid in for cordy and wether the dogs decide to take him or not.
ausfatcat wrote:I very much doubt cousins has had a deal done for a long time, I suppose we will find out Monday if the saints will ut a bid in for cordy and wether the dogs decide to take him or not.
Doubt it all you like, at a certain wedding it is beleived that Cuzy was heard in conversation that was open to all listening that it is a done deal and quoted as saying " I will be playing in Melbourne next year", this was more than 6 months ago.
I very much doubt that BC would be just hoping and praying that he will be picked up at the draft, he is not that way inclined IMO.
He would want a commitment from a club IMO and I think he has it, I just hope it is with us, we can look at a ruckmen this would then make sence with RL comments about using this draft to secure another ruckmen.
BC and another young ruckmen I would be happy with that
I don't doubt that is what you heard Saint Mik, and remember you saying this 6 months ago, and he certainly would've had interest from clubs at that time maybe even a club said they would take him if he got straight but no club would be silly enough to guarentee him a place that far out, and lets remember Cousins is also known to be pretty full of him self and could've just been presuming that if he wanted to play in Melbourne he could and it's not as if he hasn't got a history of lieing either to his old club let alone while at a wedding.
Con Gorozidis wrote:face facts guys. our ruck stocks are non existent.
For "non existent", ruckmen make up a significant portion of our playing and rookie lists. Keep in mind that 2 ruckmen in a team of 22 is 9% of the match day team.
Main (16%)
King
Koschitzke
Rix
Gardiner
McEvoy
Blake*
Rookie (28%)
Van Rheenen
Haretuku*
Scholarship
McGrath (due to be drafted this draft)
*plays other positions primarily, but can and has played in the ruck.
A club ie Bulldogs say we want to take cordy with our father-son pick.
Then on monday all the clubs sit down and say what (if any) pick they would spend on the nominated father/son pick from the other clubs.
The saints would like to take cordy with there first pick, therefore the bulldogs either say ok we will take him with our next available pick after the saints (which just happens to be pick 14) or they say we don't want him at that price and the saints gain him automaticaly with there nominated pick.
It was brought in to stop teams like Geelong getting first round picks with there 3rd pick constantly but rather have clubs getting father/son picks for their value while still having the opportunity to get them to their club.
Last edited by ausfatcat on Thu 02 Oct 2008 9:52am, edited 1 time in total.
markinUSA wrote:Pardon my ignorance - but can someone explain to me... if we go for Cordy, but the Bulldogs use their father/son pick - do we get another choice?
This move (if, knowing 100% that the bulldogs were going to use their first rounder on him if they had to) is a smart one. It forces them to give up their first round pick for Cordy, rather than picking someone else up with #14, and getting Cordy in the second round.
However, if they call our bluff, we get 'stuck' with Cordy.
ausfatcat wrote:he certainly would've had interest from clubs at that time maybe even a club said they would take him if he got straight but
No buts about it, if this was not the case he would not be in the mix at all, so clubs could have a deal in place because there is only one way this is going to happen.
BC would need to of been clean for a minimum of 12 months and had green lights after many tests from the AFL over the last 12 months before they would even consider letting him register for the draft.
With this in place a club would be more than confident that the AFL had his addiction problems in check and would be more than confident to do a deal with him.
I just hope it is with us, I would love to see him in our jumper, as you know after heated posts 12 months ago
We also need another ruck so if we can kill two birds with the one stone then good on us and I truly hope RL has done the deal if one has been done.
ausfatcat wrote:thats my point, the AFL medico's have yet to give him the all clear (I presume they will)
YEP and that gets back to the "done deal" comment
Time will tell, never seen cards so close to the chest
Hope RL has another draft season like the last one, we were definately the winners at that table and come out with a bag full of tricks late in the game.
Con Gorozidis wrote:face facts guys. our ruck stocks are non existent.
King - Aging Ruckman who has been handy but won't be around for ever.
Koschitzke - Not a ruckman more of a tell forward who pinch hitsd in the ruck and helps in defence.
Rix - VFL player.
Gardiner - Like to retire in the next 12 months. McEvoy - Up an coming #1 ruck but still not a Cox.
Blake - Mr Fixit is needed else where on the ground.
Van Rheenen - Potential is a dirty word in sports but this kid has some. Haretuku - Have never seen him play so can't comment. McGrath - Fact that he is being Drafted would suggest he is still 3 years away but has promise.
So we currently have 1 young ruckman on our list and 3 potential ruckmen on rookie lists I would say that is pretty light on for pure talent. If Cordy is worthy of such a high pick and he can develop with McEvoy then we could have a damaging ruck contingent in the future and the draft is all about the future not the next 2 years.
Bleeding Red, Black and White for 38 years!
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If we pinch Cordy at the Father/Son selecting table Friday does that mean th value of Kosi to the Dogs is increased significantly during trade week? I smell a rat (and a very cunning plan)...
