We were missing 7 of our best 22 - but still made the Prelim

[philip]

all right

i've seen a lot on the boards about trade, list management, not good enough etc. but lets look at this in the cold light of day (and it is cold out there at the moment).

The guys missing from the game Saturday night were:

Defence
Matt Maguire (centre half back)
Xavier Clarke (back flank/wing)
Sean Demster (back flank)

Midfield
Luke Ball
Steven Baker
Xavier Clarke (probable wing)
Jaydn Attard (was clearly in best 22 before doing his knee)

Now, I'm not trying to point out what stars were missing, far from it, and most likely we would have been beat even with the above in the team, but the last few years shows that the teams with next to no injuries are the ones that win. And with 7 from 22 missing I actually think we did ok for the year despite Saturday's disappointment (note, despite my history of not supporting RL, my assessment of the year is a positive one for him as coach and the club).

But when people say our bottom 6 are no good, or they need to improve, yes they do, but not nearly as much as people say.

On to list management, we need more mid-fielders not less. Dal has been super for us in previous years but has had a poor year by his standards this year. This alone is not a reason to put him up for trade bait. His skills and decision making under pressure are what makes him so good. His work rate is what lets him down. Far easier to improve on the latter than the former!!!

In terms of Kosi, he too has had a poor year by his standards but again he has shown what he can do and this is probably the single most frustrating part of his game, his best and worst are too great and too far between. But i think we are playing him our of position. He has always played his best footy (like Spider) as a ruckman who goes forward not a permanent forward who can ruck. If we can't accept that then its time to part with him because neither club or Kosi will be happy or successful, but if Kosi can strengthen his body and improve his ruckwork then he could be as devastating and dominant as we know he can be.

So all in all, a couple of things to think about. And remember, we got smashed on saturday night in the middle ie. ruck and depth of midfield quality. And quietly, they did to us what we did to the filth and were always going to, so maybe our coaches also need to sharpen up because we were tactically outclassed (but that's another post for another time).

[joffaboy]

We have two Xavier Clarkes do we?

Only one who may have made a difference was Luke Ball. MM has played well since he broke his leg, Bakes is almost past it, McQualter is at least as good as Attard and both Raph and Gilbert would have done as well as Dempster.

Mabye X on a wing but really he was out of sorts against Geelong.

Excuses for a list tha tapers pretty alarmingly ad was shown up by the other top four teams throughout the year.

[ScubaSam44]

Ohmy, two Xmans.
ive met one, wheres the other.......... ahahahahaha


we needed ball the other night.
real bad.

[Otiman]

Ohmy, two Xmans.
ive met one, wheres the other.......... ahahahahaha


we needed ball the other night.
real bad.

We needed two Balls last saturday night.

[St Fidelius]

Ohmy, two Xmans.
ive met one, wheres the other.......... ahahahahaha


we needed ball the other night.
real bad.

We needed two Balls last saturday night.

Yep and may be a cox

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

We needed two Balls last saturday night.

Unfortunately too many players played like they have NO balls...

[sunsaint]

We needed two Balls last saturday night.

Unfortunately too many players played like they have NO balls...

Yes agreed, no balls, makes cox pretty superfluous

[dcstkfc]

yep, only with cox and two balls could have we been any chance to match it with the pussies

[rexy]

Aside from the hilarious Cox and Ball jokes, I think Phillpip that you are kidding yourself about 7 of our best 22 being out. X didnt cut it and is not AFL size IMO, may be traded? who knows. Goose and Baker may never be back to their best (hope they are) and Dempster and attard whilst both have played some good footy at times are not stars.

Ball they only genuine out.













That in itself is a big factor though, my mate had 1 ball out in 03 and he could hardly walk for 2 weeks.

[meher baba]

We have two Xavier Clarkes do we?

Only one who may have made a difference was Luke Ball. MM has played well since he broke his leg, Bakes is almost past it, McQualter is at least as good as Attard and both Raph and Gilbert would have done as well as Dempster.

Mabye X on a wing but really he was out of sorts against Geelong.

Excuses for a list tha tapers pretty alarmingly ad was shown up by the other top four teams throughout the year.

JB - I think you are being a bit harsh. I agree about Attard and, of course, the two Xs.

But, if Baker and Dempster had been available we wouldn't have needed Eddy or McQualter/Jones (take your pick: I prefer McQualter, but I don't have too many friends on here in my view of Jones). How on earth can you say Bakes is past it? His injury might have finished him off now, but he would have had another 2-3 years left in him otherwise

Ball, Maguire and X were three of our potential superstars once upon a time. How many equivalent players were the Hawks without on Saturday night? Or Geelong next week (only Nathan Ablett springs immediately to mind, plus Chapman if he doesn't make it back)?

Imagine if all our listed players were fully fit on Saturday night and we had had Ball, Maguire, X, Dempster and Baker in for,say, Fiora, Eddy, McQualter, Gwilt and Armo. Looks a lot more formidable, doesn't it?

[joffaboy]

JB - I think you are being a bit harsh. I agree about Attard and, of course, the two Xs.

hat leaves the other four

But, if Baker and Dempster had been available we wouldn't have needed Eddy or McQualter/Jones (take your pick: I prefer McQualter, but I don't have too many friends on here in my view of Jones). How on earth can you say Bakes is past it? His injury might have finished him off now, but he would have had another 2-3 years left in him otherwise

Much of a muchness. Bakes may be well past it. Hasn't really played since late 07 and really wasn't having too much of an impact.

Ball, Maguire and X were three of our potential superstars once upon a time.

See bolded. Luke Ball hampered by injury and was a huge loss i the latter part of the season. Goose has not played well since 2006 and may never play well again.

X still has potential but can never get fit enough.

How many equivalent players were the Hawks without on Saturday night? Or Geelong next week (only Nathan Ablett springs immediately to mind, plus Chapman if he doesn't make it back)?

We only missed Ball.

Imagine if all our listed players were fully fit on Saturday night and we had had Ball, Maguire, X, Dempster and Baker in for,say, Fiora, Eddy, McQualter, Gwilt and Armo. Looks a lot more formidable, doesn't it?

Imagie if my aunty was my uncle..... You are living in a dream of yesteryear. We have been no more formidable on those players current form.

[rexy]

Thats just it, cats were with out an AA CHB in Egan, Chapman, N Ablett/Hawkins are not the factor they were expecting and much like X Kane Tenace has not come on to be the player they were expecting.

They are still the best though, If we were missing Hayes Ball Roo Goddard Max and Fisher then I would agree but I think we are clutching at straws to say that the 7 who were out made the difference on saturday.

[St DAC]

Ball and Dempster at least were in our best 22. A fit X Clarke should be too.

The jury is still out on whether the others can come back anywhere near their best form. Time will tell.

[Otiman]

Matt Maguire - Blake has been as good if not better defensively as Goose, and we have plenty of rebound defenders now.
Xavier Clarke - Not injured per se, but definitely not up to AFL fitness/body size.
Sean Dempster - Tick
Luke Ball - Tick
Steven Baker - On the decline before his injury, but tick for best 22.
Jaydn Attard - Dempster would have been ahead of him. I'd say best 25 not not 22 this year.

That's three ticks. Better than a lot of other teams!

[meher baba]

I think you guys have all underestimated the value of Goose and Bakes at their best

And we all forgot about Gehrig who, even in his 2007 form, might have been a bit useful on Saturday night against the Hawks backline

And as for Geelong. Thank heavens Hawkins hasn't turned out to be that great: otherwise wed have to deal with the most unequal sporting contest outside of international rugby league!!

[Con Gorozidis]

Aside from the hilarious Cox and Ball jokes, I think Phillpip that you are kidding yourself about 7 of our best 22 being out. X didnt cut it and is not AFL size IMO, may be traded? who knows. Goose and Baker may never be back to their best (hope they are) and Dempster and attard whilst both have played some good footy at times are not stars.

Ball they only genuine out.

agree. love the ball and cox jokes. we need 3 balls and 2 cox to deal with the pussies.

x is rubbish (he was dropped because he could not get a kick and kept falling over - he could not tackle and is pysically weak)

attard?? u are kidding me right.
MM - may never play again.
Baker - finished.
Dempster - very ordinary player.

ball the only real out.



kosi is SO SO SO bad. im shocked people on this forum are still - 7 years on - still crapping on about his potential.

he does not suit modern football. he is 1970's pack mark style. he would have dominated in the 70/s but he will never cut it at modern football. too short to ruck. not agile enough to be KPP.














That in itself is a big factor though, my mate had 1 ball out in 03 and he could hardly walk for 2 weeks.

[remboy]

You can't expect to have your best 22 available. Every finals side would be missing at least 2 or 3. Sides just need to have sufficient depth to cover the cover the losses.

[saint patrick]

Ohmy, two Xmans.
ive met one, wheres the other.......... ahahahahaha


we needed ball the other night.
real bad.

We needed two Balls last saturday night.

We needed to find the Ball last Saturday night

[MasonCJ2]

Ah ha ha ... only able to start ... breathing ... ahhh ... again.

Love the gags guys. Unfortunately, I can't see any reason why big Hawk won't still become a star let alone just ok. A little like a new born calf, he's just getting used to himself - he's still a fairly scary proposition and that's just about their only weakness.

[OneEyedSainter77]

No more excuses.

Please.

Premierships....

[Otiman]

Any attempt to palm our performance on saturday night off to injuries is bad form. 06 and 07, yep, for sure. Not '08 though, it's been one of our best runs with injuries for years.

You have to expect at least 5 out, and to have enough depth of new talent coming through to cover them.

Lenny was right when he said we don't have depth. When you have to bring Fiora into the side, as well as have guys like McQualter (who was delisted and nobody wanted him in the national OR rookie drafts), and 13 gamer Eddy, you're asking for trouble. Gwilt gave up without much of a whimper, and there were probably a few more that didn't get more than a sniff of the sherrin all night.

[fonz_#15]

Ohmy, two Xmans.
ive met one, wheres the other.......... ahahahahaha


we needed ball the other night.
real bad.

We needed two Balls last saturday night.

Yep and may be a cox

what are our prospects on getting goldsack to the club?

[Zed]

every club has injuries. Ball and Baker in our best. Dempster is ok - but no match winner.

X Clarke has never delivered consistenly and never been a match winner. The game may have passed Maguire by, and I think Attard is interchangable with C Jones, Eddy, Maqualter.

So our best team was really missing Ball & Baker - which was probably worth 3 - 4 goals - which still left us a long way short of the Hawks. Quite simply we were not good enough.

If we are to go anywhere next year we need big improvements from:
* McEvoy (needs to become a key forward who can take a turn in the ruck)
* Armitage (needs to become a clearance machine like Sam Mitchell)
* Jack Steven (needs to become a gut running midfielder who runs through the lines)
* Jaryd Allen - needs to become a consitent goal scoring 3rd tall in the forward line.

The chance of all those guys maturing to the required level next year is slim - so at best, we can expect us to make the 8, but get no further than the prelim again.

[rexy]

I think you guys have all underestimated the value of Goose and Bakes at their best

And we all forgot about Gehrig who, even in his 2007 form, might have been a bit useful on Saturday night against the Hawks backline

And as for Geelong. Thank heavens Hawkins hasn't turned out to be that great: otherwise wed have to deal with the most unequal sporting contest outside of international rugby league!!

And we traded Everitt and Hall, Loewe and Bourke retired and Winmar cracked the s***s and played a year at the doggies. Lockett is a turn coat who couldnt handle the preassure in Melbourne, Heatley is a much better kick for goal than gwilt and Barker unfortunately passed away.

It is surprising that Hawkins isnt getting a game though what with Ablett snr on crack, Billy Brownless 40kg overweight and Sam Newman made completely out of plastic you would think they could find room for him.

WE ARE JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND NEED DEVELOPEMENT FROM YOUTH AND ALL PLAYERS AVAILABLE TO GIVE 100% WHEN SELECTED.

[remboy]

WE ARE JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND NEED DEVELOPEMENT FROM YOUTH AND ALL PLAYERS AVAILABLE TO GIVE 100% WHEN SELECTED.

Amen to that. We need to use 5 or 6 picks in the national draft and bring 18 year olds into the club. Every year I get more excited about an 18 year old who's never played than a recycled dud who another club couldn't wait to get rid of. The rookie could be anything, the reject will never be more than a GOP.