Sorry Ross....

[JeffDunne]

Guerra is the sort of player that good teams can carry.

He'd be a spud in an average team.

[rodgerfox]

Guerra is the sort of player that good teams can carry.

He'd be a spud in an average team.

That's been proven twice.

[markp]

The real question should probably be how many of our players would get a game in the teams that finished above us, hawks and cats especially.

Amazingly, it is likely more often than not that the team with the most (and best) good players, and least (and not so bad) bad players that wins.

Go freakin figure.

[WayneJudson42]

In other words, we have a few who are up every week. Others drift in and out. Which means the players need to have a long hard look at themselves IMO.

Another thinly veiled swipe at the coach Rdge?

Also probably explains why we lost in 97.

Thinly veiled??

I haven't veiled anything.

The coaches job is to get players 'up' every week. He gets paid to do that. If he can't, he gets paid to get players in that he can get 'up' every week.

Lyon, in his 2 years, has achieved this for only 12 weeks.

During that time, we appeared to have depth. We didn't lack leg speed. We didn't lack skill. etc. etc.

Simply, our good players are very, very good. When they play well, we as a team look very good.

The problem is that the 'master coach', the 'messiah', can't get what is the coach's number 1 responsibility right - getting the players to play at full intensity every week for 4 quarters.

Geelong have been a different side, since they got fit and learnt to play at 100% every week for 4 quarters.

The 1 time they didn't do that in the past 18 months, guess what happened? They got rolled by 90 points and suddenly appeared to have holes everywhere in their list.

Hawthorn were up by 5 goals against us at half time a month or so ago, then took their foot off the gas. Guess what happened? We won by 5 goals and suddenly Hawthorn looked ordinary.


Intensity is the key. Always has been, and always will be. It's an area the coach has failed in badly for all but 12 weeks of his tenure.

We finally get to the real point of your post...

We have a top 4 list, but RL is a crap coach.

It's seems you've been biting your tongue for a few weeks, and now that we've bowed out.. let's pay out on the coach. True to form.

Why not just say that in the OP?

[markp]

In other words, we have a few who are up every week. Others drift in and out. Which means the players need to have a long hard look at themselves IMO.

Another thinly veiled swipe at the coach Rdge?

Also probably explains why we lost in 97.

Thinly veiled??

I haven't veiled anything.

The coaches job is to get players 'up' every week. He gets paid to do that. If he can't, he gets paid to get players in that he can get 'up' every week.

Lyon, in his 2 years, has achieved this for only 12 weeks.

During that time, we appeared to have depth. We didn't lack leg speed. We didn't lack skill. etc. etc.

Simply, our good players are very, very good. When they play well, we as a team look very good.

The problem is that the 'master coach', the 'messiah', can't get what is the coach's number 1 responsibility right - getting the players to play at full intensity every week for 4 quarters.

Geelong have been a different side, since they got fit and learnt to play at 100% every week for 4 quarters.

The 1 time they didn't do that in the past 18 months, guess what happened? They got rolled by 90 points and suddenly appeared to have holes everywhere in their list.

Hawthorn were up by 5 goals against us at half time a month or so ago, then took their foot off the gas. Guess what happened? We won by 5 goals and suddenly Hawthorn looked ordinary.


Intensity is the key. Always has been, and always will be. It's an area the coach has failed in badly for all but 12 weeks of his tenure.

We finally get to the real point of your post...

We have a top 4 list, but RL is a crap coach.

It's seems you've been biting your tongue for a few weeks, and now that we've bowed out.. let's pay out on the coach. True to form.

Why not just say that in the OP?

It's a given....

What you are witnessing here is some subtle variation of the Stockholm Syndrome.

He's gone Rodge.

[TimeToShineFellas]

In other words, we have a few who are up every week. Others drift in and out. Which means the players need to have a long hard look at themselves IMO.

Another thinly veiled swipe at the coach Rdge?

Also probably explains why we lost in 97.

Thinly veiled??

I haven't veiled anything.

The coaches job is to get players 'up' every week. He gets paid to do that. If he can't, he gets paid to get players in that he can get 'up' every week.

Lyon, in his 2 years, has achieved this for only 12 weeks.

During that time, we appeared to have depth. We didn't lack leg speed. We didn't lack skill. etc. etc.

Simply, our good players are very, very good. When they play well, we as a team look very good.

The problem is that the 'master coach', the 'messiah', can't get what is the coach's number 1 responsibility right - getting the players to play at full intensity every week for 4 quarters.

Geelong have been a different side, since they got fit and learnt to play at 100% every week for 4 quarters.

The 1 time they didn't do that in the past 18 months, guess what happened? They got rolled by 90 points and suddenly appeared to have holes everywhere in their list.

Hawthorn were up by 5 goals against us at half time a month or so ago, then took their foot off the gas. Guess what happened? We won by 5 goals and suddenly Hawthorn looked ordinary.


Intensity is the key. Always has been, and always will be. It's an area the coach has failed in badly for all but 12 weeks of his tenure.

Good teams coach themselves as far as I am concerned.

Do you honestly think Yabby Jeans had a lot to do with Hawthorn dominating the 80s? Hawthorn were intense at the man and the ball because they had a burning desire to become a powerful club on the field. They didnt need a coach to get their intensity up week after week. It was self-driven!

Dodge-man you can skirt around the topic as much as you like but you just don't like Ross Lyon. Not sure why you don't.

And please don't start poncing on about "when have I ever written that?".

Here's a newsflash for you. You claim Ross only achieved it for 12 weeks. Ross Lyon has already guided this Club to a Preliminary Final. Not bad for a coach that can't seem to get the boys "up and intense" each week.

You also alluded to the fact that RL wasn't a good coach until we won a final. Well guess what we did. Then I read some rubbish that he now needed to win a Preliminary Final in order to be a good coach.

What makes me laugh is the fact you thought the previous coach was in the "Einstein" mould of modern-day coaches. Hate to break it to you, he never coached us to a Grand Final berth either. He mustn't have been able to get the boys "intensity" up those 2 times hey?

Anyway probably not much more point in rabbiting on about things with you, clearly the message will never sink in.

Carry on!

[Joffa Burns]

Fatboy Dew?

He wouldn't get a game in an average or poor team.

He's a luxury a good team can afford.

Yep, agree on this one.
Obvioulsy adds something other than his left boot to the mix that Clarkson values.

Maybe it is premiership experience?

Disagree on Guerra, is a good footballer when he has his head screwed on and has the rare ability to hurt players as he likes the physical contact.

Tell me JD you and RF were not in raptures in '04 when he was barelling in of the line at centre square bounces and knocking blokes over?

Personally I loved it, and it is a commodity you wish you could bottle.

Birchall RF??? WTF?

[rodgerfox]

Dodge-man you can skirt around the topic as much as you like but you just don't like Ross Lyon. Not sure why you don't.

I like him.

I like him alot.

I just don't think he's coached us well during his tenure. And due to the reasons I've expressed on here several times, I have concerns as to whether or not he has the ability or mindset (or ideals) to do so.

I actually shared a beer with Lyon at the Waterside pre-season, and he's a great guy.

Look, many on here find this hard to comprehend - but just because you don't agree with someone or don't rate their professional abilities, does not mean you 'hate' them.

What makes me laugh is the fact you thought the previous coach was in the "Einstein" mould of modern-day coaches. Hate to break it to you, he never coached us to a Grand Final berth either. He mustn't have been able to get the boys "intensity" up those 2 times hey?

That's simply not true.

All I ever said about Thomas, was that I thought he was a good coach who was sacked a year earlier than I would have done it. And he was sacked for the wrong reasons.

That's all I've ever said.

His message was waining, which is why I said all along he had one more year left. Whether or not his message was no longer translating into effort and intensity from the players was due to the availablity and fitness of key players, is still up for debate. But the facts are, he needed to fix it.

If he didn't in 07, I would not have renewed his contract.


I've said this all along. And I stand by it.

[rodgerfox]

Disagree on Guerra, is a good footballer when he has his head screwed on and has the rare ability to hurt players as he likes the physical contact.

He's been discarded by two clubs though.

[Joffa Burns]

Disagree on Guerra, is a good footballer when he has his head screwed on and has the rare ability to hurt players as he likes the physical contact.

He's been discarded by two clubs though.

Because of football ability or other issues?
PA traded him for a 2nd round pick so hardly discarded.

Discarded by St Kilda - yes.
But Clarkson has managed to get the best out of him for two seasons to date, something we could not do for a sustained period of more than a few weeks.

As I wrote above when he has his head screwed on.

How many hawks have the potential to knock Ablett or Bartel out cold coming off the line at the first bounce?

He is not a gun, but he is no dud.

[rodgerfox]

Disagree on Guerra, is a good footballer when he has his head screwed on and has the rare ability to hurt players as he likes the physical contact.

He's been discarded by two clubs though.

Because of football ability or other issues?
PA traded him for a 2nd round pick so hardly discarded.

Discarded by St Kilda - yes.
But Clarkson has managed to get the best out of him for two seasons to date, something we could not do for a sustained period of more than a few weeks.

As I wrote above when he has his head screwed on.

How many hawks have the potential to knock Ablett or Bartel out cold coming off the line at the first bounce?

He is not a gun, but he is no dud.

But I guess that's the debate - has Clarkson got the best out of him? Or is simply performing because he's in a side that doesn't let any unpressured footy into their defence?

In a side that does let easy ball happen, would he be of any value at all?

[bigcarl]

our forward line became a joke on saturday night

gwilt and kosi are no the answer. chralie gardiner is not the answer.

I want to see allen start the year down forward but outside that the cupboard is bare.

personally i'd play bj at ff or chf, but there seems to be a fair bit of opposition to that as many regard him as too valuable elsehwere.

gilbert and s. fisher would be other possibilities.

i have hopes for allen, but he kicked only 23 goals for casey this season and would want to kick more goals before he can lay claim to a place in our forward line.

we have some work to do in this area because i believe to beat geelong and hawthorn you have to be able to outscore them. trying to restrict them to a losing score will not work.

a longshot would be that goose somehow miraculously returns to his best after a horrendous run of injuries. then we could plonk him at chf and leave roo at ff. it's a longshot though.

we need to throw some resources forward.

games may be decided by midfield dominance, but it is amazing what having good marking forwards will do for the confidence of the midfield.

it is real encouragement for them to win the ball and get in in there quickly, knowing their efforts will be rewarded.

[saintly]

Disagree on Guerra, is a good footballer when he has his head screwed on and has the rare ability to hurt players as he likes the physical contact.

He's been discarded by two clubs though.

Because of football ability or other issues?
PA traded him for a 2nd round pick so hardly discarded.

Discarded by St Kilda - yes.
But Clarkson has managed to get the best out of him for two seasons to date, something we could not do for a sustained period of more than a few weeks.

As I wrote above when he has his head screwed on.

How many hawks have the potential to knock Ablett or Bartel out cold coming off the line at the first bounce?

He is not a gun, but he is no dud.

obviously, guerra was played in the wrong position here at st kilda. the saints did not try him in the the back line.