Lets get fair dinkum about Kosi!!!

[bobmurray]

So his handful of good games were either a glimpse of his potential... or an abberation where he played above himself.

You can't play above yourself,it's impossible,it implies you play with more ability than you actually possess which is crap.....

You can only play to the maximum level of your ability,if even it happens infrequently....

I know you didn't invent the saying but it's so lame and laughable....

[To the top]

Such experts sitting outside the fence!

With such expert advice available, how come St Kilda are not the power house team of the competition?

I think Luke Ball should be traded because he has been of no value to St Kilda, always playing with injury and now unavailable for the finals.

So what tossers are going to jump on that statement and support it?

I'll bet some do!

[WayneJudson42]

So his handful of good games were either a glimpse of his potential... or an abberation where he played above himself.

You can't play above yourself,it's impossible,it implies you play with more ability than you actually possess which is crap.....

You can only play to the maximum level of your ability,if even it happens infrequently....

I know you didn't invent the saying but it's so lame and laughable....

So what's your answer?

Keep Ball. He tries.

[stinger]

. . No s*** sherlock!!!

from the guy who has a go at others for being abusive.....

[stinger]

PS....I have hardy missed a Victorian game any venue for 3 decades....and so my views on Kosi are not gained from just the TV. though this complete dismissing of people interstae is pretty lame.

no...not what i said at all......i said i was having a go at an interstate poster who posted s***...i conceded that most don't....but htf anyone who never sees the saints live can call a player lazy or be supercritical of his performance......that is beyond my comprehension.....

[matrix]

im from interstate
im an expert

[stinger]

im from interstate
im an expert

that you are mate...that you are......


some experts have some intelligence......others are as thick as two short planks.....

[st.byron]

If you look at Kosi's total games played, how many full seasons does it equate to?

Ruckmen take longer to develop, we all know that, and just becase Kosi plays forward sometimes, doesn't change the fact he is essentially a ruckman.

How long (as in games played) did Cox take to hit his straps? Ottens?

If we give up Kosi now, we'd be handing an opposition team a KPP we've devloped, just when he's coming good. Too great a risk imo.

Blind optimism is always an option. "We'd be handing an opposition team a KPP we've developed, just when he's about to come good". He's been about to come good for about four years now.

[st.byron]

Such experts sitting outside the fence!

With such expert advice available, how come St Kilda are not the power house team of the competition?

I think Luke Ball should be traded because he has been of no value to St Kilda, always playing with injury and now unavailable for the finals.

So what tossers are going to jump on that statement and support it?

I'll bet some do!

mate, don't make a nong of yourself. You were at least making a decent fist of an argument up until now. I've posted a fair argument based solely on Kosi's stats, which you've been using as evidence that he's earning his keep. When you've got nothing to reply with, you resort to the old, "what would the armchair experts know" and round it off with a bit of personal abuse just for good measure. Can't you do better than that?
You're an armchair expert too.

[st.byron]

PS....I have hardy missed a Victorian game any venue for 3 decades....and so my views on Kosi are not gained from just the TV. though this complete dismissing of people interstae is pretty lame.

no...not what i said at all......i said i was having a go at an interstate poster who posted s***...i conceded that most don't....but htf anyone who never sees the saints live can call a player lazy or be supercritical of his performance......that is beyond my comprehension.....

I didn't call Koschitzke lazy, let's get that straight.

I am critical of his performance and Ive got every reason to be. The stats back me up. More than that his actual impact on games is seriously inconsistent. That's my biggest beef with him. He does a few wonderful things then goes missing for weeks on end.

[st.byron]

. . No s*** sherlock!!!

from the guy who has a go at others for being abusive.....

woohoo lookout. Calling someone Sherlock is way over the top. Looks like I've got under your skin Stinger for you to be lowering yourself to reply to me.
To help you with your reply Stinger, cut and paste the following and just fill in the blanks .

You f-*** What the f*** would you know you flowering arse*****
Get flow**** dips***.

That's a start for you Stinger. I'm sure you can expand on that, since you've got such a vast vocab of pithy insults at your fingertips. Do what you do best.

[St Fidelius]

PS....I have hardy missed a Victorian game any venue for 3 decades....and so my views on Kosi are not gained from just the TV. though this complete dismissing of people interstae is pretty lame.

no...not what i said at all......i said i was having a go at an interstate poster who posted s***...i conceded that most don't....but htf anyone who never sees the saints live can call a player lazy or be supercritical of his performance......that is beyond my comprehension.....

I didn't call Koschitzke lazy, let's get that straight.

I am critical of his performance and Ive got every reason to be. The stats back me up. More than that his actual impact on games is seriously inconsistent. That's my biggest beef with him. He does a few wonderful things then goes missing for weeks on end.

you are critical of his performance are you??

Is he a ruckman?? NO

Does he play in the ruck?? YES

Does he play in a position that is is outside his capabilities?? YES

If you are critical of him, run that past the farking selection committee ...

Not his fault the side has not found a position for him

[st.byron]

you are critical of his performance are you??

Is he a ruckman?? NO

Does he play in the ruck?? YES

Does he play in a position that is is outside his capabilities?? YES

If you are critical of him, run that past the farking selection committee ...

Not his fault the side has not found a position for him

Fid, I'm as frustrated with Koschitzke as everyone else is. Agree with you that he's not a ruckman. He's just not good enough with his body, his tapwork isn't great, his leap's not good enough to cover his other deficiencies and he's a bit slow around the ground. So agree that he's not ideally suited to the ruck.
Ideally, he'd be a real focal point in attack. He's had plenty of chances to show what he can do at FF but he hasn't really delivered there either. He's not quick on the lead, isn't great in a one on one body contest in the way someone like Fraser was and is a poor kick. His strongest suit as a forward seems to be taking big grabs crashing a pack, which if you can do it regularly is an awesome talent. But he doesn't really do that much either. He has kicked 28 goals this year which is something to hang your hat on at least.
You can argue that Kosi's performances aren't good enough, or that he's yet to find his niche. I lean towards being critical of him rather then arguing that he's a great player yet to find his niche. Whatever you reckon, he's bloody frustrating.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

are we fair dinkum on kosi yet?

[Bernard Shakey]

Hey stinger,

I called Kosi lazy and I know, because I see him every week in Melbourne and some interstate games and I also see him at training, whenever Ross deems it OK for members and supporters to give the players a bit of support.

He trains lazy and plays accordingly.

St Fid your argument is that he is not a ruckman and being played out of position.

I agree, he is not a ruckman. He is also not a full forward, centre half forward, centre half back or any position on an AFL ground.

Let him go to whoever will take him.

If he turns out to be a star and win 3 Brownlows good luck to him and whoever picks him up.

At St Kilda he aint going nowhere and that is sad.

[plugger66]

St Byron, your response really says it all.

I note that you did not go to the game last weekend, and I doubt you have been to a game in the last 25 years.

The days of the 1960's when you kicked to contests are gone.

These days you rely on your running players to take control of the ball and kick to the advantage of their target/s.

Contested marks, and, indeed, the opportunity to take contested marks are few and far between.

So, if Kosi is the target of the player delivering, and has space on his opponent then that is what is required, isn't it?

I dont understand how we deliver it well to Rooy but not Kosi or is it Rooy reads it well and Kosi is a good average player at best.

[WayneJudson42]

Kosi. No heart. The evidence? Every week he plays.

Disinterested body language. IT's pathetic and sad to watch.

so are your posts.

[stinger]

Hey stinger,

I called Kosi lazy and I know, because I see him every week in Melbourne and some interstate games and I also see him at training, whenever Ross deems it OK for members and supporters to give the players a bit of support.

He trains lazy and plays accordingly.

St Fid your argument is that he is not a ruckman and being played out of position.

I agree, he is not a ruckman. He is also not a full forward, centre half forward, centre half back or any position on an AFL ground.

Let him go to whoever will take him.

If he turns out to be a star and win 3 Brownlows good luck to him and whoever picks him up.

At St Kilda he aint going nowhere and that is sad.

say what you will...he's not going anywhere.......just as well you're not the saints coach........or anyone of any importance.......

[stinger]

Kosi. No heart. The evidence? Every week he plays.

Disinterested body language. IT's pathetic and sad to watch.

so are your posts.

[Bernard Shakey]

Hey stinger,

I called Kosi lazy and I know, because I see him every week in Melbourne and some interstate games and I also see him at training, whenever Ross deems it OK for members and supporters to give the players a bit of support.

He trains lazy and plays accordingly.

St Fid your argument is that he is not a ruckman and being played out of position.

I agree, he is not a ruckman. He is also not a full forward, centre half forward, centre half back or any position on an AFL ground.

Let him go to whoever will take him.

If he turns out to be a star and win 3 Brownlows good luck to him and whoever picks him up.

At St Kilda he aint going nowhere and that is sad.

say what you will...he's not going anywhere.......just as well you're not the saints coach........or anyone of any importance....... :wink: :lol: :lol:

I state a fact.

Why do you have to be obnoxious every time you post you obscenities?

:D :) :D :) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :wink:

[st.byron]

Hey stinger,

I called Kosi lazy and I know, because I see him every week in Melbourne and some interstate games and I also see him at training, whenever Ross deems it OK for members and supporters to give the players a bit of support.

He trains lazy and plays accordingly.

St Fid your argument is that he is not a ruckman and being played out of position.

I agree, he is not a ruckman. He is also not a full forward, centre half forward, centre half back or any position on an AFL ground.

Let him go to whoever will take him.

If he turns out to be a star and win 3 Brownlows good luck to him and whoever picks him up.

At St Kilda he aint going nowhere and that is sad.

say what you will...he's not going anywhere.......just as well you're not the saints coach........or anyone of any importance.......

I state a fact.

Why do you have to be obnoxious every time you post you obscenities?

He can't help it mate. He's so schooled in being adversarial he thinks it shows strength or superior intelligence by putting people in their place. Anyone who disagrees wit him is a flowering (insert insult of your choice).

[Animal Enclosure]

I personally reckon the opposition has got Kosi worked out when he plays deep forward. They take away his run at the ball & he isn't athletic enough (like Roo) to combat it & still get into a good position to contest the mark.

When he does have a decent run & jump at the ball opportunity he is very very good. Opposition players will put a body against him & stop this at every chance.

He simply has to work on this part of his game exceptionally hard. Reports that he's lazy at training are disappointing (and very surprising). You would hope that a bloke in Kosi' s position (always getting the 'unfulfilled talent' thrown at him) would be working harder than anyone.

Do we trade him??? Personally I would look at it. I'd also look at Dal, Montagna & any other number of fringe players with a bit of trade value. There are a number of teams in the bottom 5 that are laden with kids & need experienced players to compliment them. Port have always made noise about wanting to land a name player, they need key position players and also have a few Victorian kids on their books too. Essendon lack in the quality 23-27 year old bracket and Carlton (who I'd hate to deal with) are only a seasoned tall player away from playing finals again.

There's options & there's very high quality at the pointy end of the draft.

I'm a big believer that we need a handful of the quality kids to rejuvenate the list and challenge again in 2-3 seasons.

[To the top]

St Byron, without wishing to sound dismissive of you, the comment re Ball was a throw away proposition to highlight stupidity.

And in you came!

In regards Plugger and delivery to Roo versus delivery to Kosi the facts of the matter (and as commented on very often by many here) is that we are too Roo centric.

If Roo has a down day, as he did against Geelong and had until the second half of the season, we are basically stuffed because we do not have other options through half-forward, as confirmed by the frequency of interchange between supporting players with C. Gardiner once again discarded.

Last week against Geelong, whenever a mid-fielder looked to carry the ball down ground that mid-fielder was confronted very quickly be a Geelong player front and centre - forcing side ways movements and allowing Geelong to out number our attacking players.

In those circumstances BOTH Roo and Kosi struggled when playing forward, seeing Roo on a wing before leaving the ground in the last quarter.

Kosi started from the square when forward (and not rucking or on the pine recovering) and on 3 occasions was caught outnumbered 3 to 1, blocked from the contest with the spare Geelong defenders marking and running off, Kosi then blocked from chasing.

You think both Kosi and Roo are not double teamed or even triple teamed?

The opposition realise how dangerous they are and they are the forwards who command the attention of opposition coaches.

Our remainder "dangerous" forwards are Milne and Schnieder, neither of whom need to be double teamed.

So the opposition focus on 2 St Kilda players, one of whom also has to ruck and play as a utility player around the ground.

Hopefully Gwilt can stand up as a dangerous forward and take the opportunities afforded by the hard marking of Roo and Kosi - because that is where our deficiency is - as evidenced by C. Gardiner again being dropped, as was Ferguson, as was Allen etc. etc. etc. - and now we have Gwilt.

We are also impinged by the lack of height of Milne and Schnieder, exposed last week by Harley picking up Schnieder. That is why I would like to see Ball forward because he is also a very good mark for his height.

The problem is not with Kosi per se - it is with our forward line structure and that is recognised by the Match Commitee by C. Gardiner again losing his spot.

We need players to capitalise on the attraction to Roo and Kosi. And we do not have them.

Our goal kickers show that - Roo and Kosi plus Milne and Schnieder being the top 4 - 2 talls and 2 smalls. Where is the 190/192 cm 3rd option? Nowhere, therefore the predictability of St Kilda is easy to defend - and the opposition do, obviously.

Same when we played Roo and Gehrig forward, and why we looked for Roo, Gehrig AND Kosi, but Frase could not deliver for a range of reasons.

Quite frankly, I would put Kosi at CHF, ruck King and M. Gardiner and play Roo off a wing.

But who then do we play at full forward capable of leading, taking a grab or locking the ball in the F50? Allen, McEvoy, Rix?

Allen is the best prospect. He is 193cm.

And who then is our mid/taller sized goal kicking forward? Because Gwilt at 188cm is probably just 4cm too short for that role, and sits in under that role looking for a mis-match in body and height.

Rucking Kosi does not have the body mass for what rucking has become today - and the reason King survives as well as he does.

[The OtherThommo]

His future is entirely dependent on how his coach views him. RTB has spent time defending him, sounding as though he buys the age angle. I think he is a major disappointment......

It's all about tomorrow night. Compete, Kosi, compete. And, if you can't, take people away from Roo, not to him. Team footy - worth it's weight.

I'm lost now............

[To the top]

Put the facts of selection on the table and all the knockers go away?

Can I repeat, C. Gardiner got dropped, not Kosi.

And Gwilt held his spot.

Casey's forward line includes Allen, Ferguson, C. Gardiner and Rix.