Ins and Outs

[Bernard Shakey]

He can kick.

Nobody else up forward seems to be able too.

[degruch]

BJ at full forward is not as dumb as it sounds.

Hmmm...no...I reckon it is as dumb as it sounds. But that's just my opinion...and possibly Solar's. Take a 25-30 possesion per game utility out of play and stick him in a key position??? Sounds pretty silly to me

[elvis lives]

Can someone please fill me in on what Charlie Gardiner has done at either AFL or VFL level in the last 6 months to deserve a game in the current saints side?

He is obviously a nice bloke and probably tries really hard, but having watched most games and followed the VFL results pretty closely, I have completely missed any reports where he either made the best in either side or has kicked more than 2 goals as a key forward. Certainly at the AFL level, has has not had an influence on any game I have seen.

If course I may have missed something and I don't claim to have 100% knowledge so happy to be shown otherwise.

The argument that he provides pressure in the forward line is pretty rediculous in my opinion. If that is all he is there for then lets just put a defender there.

The fairly obvious alternative is Ferguson who, in one of only two opportunities he has been given at AFL level this year, had more influence on the game than Charlie has had in all his games combined.

But of course he was not recruited by Ross and therefore does not given the same opportunities as those who were.

[WayneJudson42]

This whole "give someone else a go" logic is wearing a bit thin IMO.

If someone like Ferg isn't getting a game, then he's obviously not pushing for selection due to deeds in the Scorps or on the track.

So, if Charlie impresses on the track, and gets a game, due to no one else putting pressure on him for his spot... then we're basically stuffed, coz we too many GOP's.

[sainter123]

if that is the case why hasnt gehrig or michael gardiner got in the side.
from reports ive heard and wot my dad saw at training the other week thoes two are trainig very well.

if charlie is in playing a foward role i dnt see why gehrig wouldnt take his place.

on the weeknd he did nothing for us and shows no flair up foward.
were some one like gehrig does.
and he would be more of a danger to the opposiotion.

but his hand is said not to be a 100% right?????

[Little Dozer]

Also Gwilt could be the next Loewe if given a chance at CHF as he is such a strong mark.

I've heard it all now!

[MCG-Unit]

I think Plugger66 is just taking the p!ss read the post he's responding to.....

[Little Dozer]

quite correct MCG

[Sainter_Dad]

Would this work?

B: Jason Blake(?), Max Hudghton, Raphael Clarke
HB: Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher, Justin Koschitzke
C: Clint Jones, Nick Dal Santo, Robert Harvey
HF: James Gwilt, Nick Riewoldt, Leigh Montagna
F: Stephen Milne, Brendon Goddard, Adam Schneider


Foll: Steven King, Lenny Hayes, Jason Gram
I/C: Michael/Charlie Gardiner, Shane Birss, Robert Eddy, David Armitage

[matrix]

I go ALL IN with a Stephen Hooper (Pick 1) for James Hird (Pick 76)

royal flush

Bj at Ff is not a very good idea.
said it in another thread somewhere...he is one of, if not the, best kick at our club over distance.
he can spot someone up from 45 and drop it two metres in front of them at full tilt.
he can kick goals from 55 out, and can go in the guts, get hard ball gets, clearances and run his ass off, as well as patrol a backline and run off the back flank setting up play.....

would be a total disaster at FF for the team and the set up of play

[Saints94]

Join the club, we took Chris Egan instead of Jordan Lewis....*ouch*

Hey mate lay of him his my cousin

[Ralphy]

isnt chris egan off home and away.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Can someone please fill me in on what Charlie Gardiner has done at either AFL or VFL level in the last 6 months to deserve a game in the current saints side?

IMO, 99% of selection criticism on saintsational is unwarranted - and in fact, I'd probably even say that whinging about the selection of Charlie Gardiner is unwarranted, I'm strongly of the view that the way he approaches his role generally makes our forward line and midfield gel better.

At the same time, I think it's a big problem that we cannot find that same ball movement using a player who can deliver more than being a structural catylyst in a quantifiable way.

I don't think Ferguson's the answer (though on his 2 games, I was optomistic after the first one in spite of his poor goalkicking, and thought it was a bit rough that he was given up on so quickly), and I don't think Allen or McEvoy's there yet...

But I think it's indicative of something we've learned over the course of 2008. We thought our forwardline was going to be a major strength. It hasn't been. Reiwoldt's been good, Milne's been good, and Schneider's come round recently in a HFF capacity, but in general, our forward line has been a weakness.

Ferg for Gardiner? Not impressed, but I'm not impressed by the need to play a guy for structural reasons either.

[Legendary]

Armitage could play Gwilt's role with equal effectiveness.

Birss is a better option offensively than McQualter.

OUT: McQualter, Gwilt
IN: Birss, Armitage

On the off chance that Ball comes up, then he comes in instead of Armitage ...

[Geezer]

IN :
Ball amitage

OUT : McQualter Eddy

and one of those 2 outs to get a reprive if ball cant come up.

[NoMore]

Every person in here who bags the Clarkes. I can't wait for u to have to eat your words.

It is starting to really annoy me.

Raph is starting to play some nice footy for us after finally getting his body right.

X played his first game for 4 months on the weekend in a final that was against the best team in the competition. Some guys who were very match hardened struggled but idiots on here get on and bag X.

Anyone who actually watched the game would have noticed how he improved as the game went on.

[bigcarl]

Raph is starting to play some nice footy for us after finally getting his body right.

agree. is there any reason he couldn't be run through the midfield?

[NoMore]

Raph is starting to play some nice footy for us after finally getting his body right.

agree. is there any reason he couldn't be run through the midfield?

Like the idea. Also think Gwilt could go through there to. However as they have both been groomed to play key back i am tipping there fitness may not be up to it. Hopefully we see it in the future

[bigcarl]

Take a 25-30 possesion per game utility out of play and stick him in a key position

they are referred to as "key" positions for a reason ... because they're important and often "key" to your chances.

personally i reckon bj would be a good fit there, good hands, a good kick and he knows how to get the ball one way or another.

but i take the point that it could leave us short of class around the ground.

[degruch]

Take a 25-30 possesion per game utility out of play and stick him in a key position

they are referred to as "key" positions for a reason ... because they're important and often "key" to your chances.

personally i reckon bj would be a good fit there, good hands, a good kick and he knows how to get the ball one way or another.

but i take the point that it could leave us short of class around the ground.

Well, leaving him up there takes him out of the game, if there's no run through the centre. As he's one of the primary generators of said run, who's gonna get it to him? He's never exhibited any ability to lead either. Good mark and good kick doesn't really cut it. He's far better used pushing forward during the game...IMO.

[bigcarl]

Take a 25-30 possesion per game utility out of play and stick him in a key position

they are referred to as "key" positions for a reason ... because they're important and often "key" to your chances.

personally i reckon bj would be a good fit there, good hands, a good kick and he knows how to get the ball one way or another.

but i take the point that it could leave us short of class around the ground.

Well, leaving him up there takes him out of the game, if there's no run through the centre. As he's one of the primary generators of said run, who's gonna get it to him? He's never exhibited any ability to lead either. Good mark and good kick doesn't really cut it. He's far better used pushing forward during the game...IMO.

so who should our key forwards be? or should we just kick it to roo?

[degruch]

Take a 25-30 possesion per game utility out of play and stick him in a key position

they are referred to as "key" positions for a reason ... because they're important and often "key" to your chances.

personally i reckon bj would be a good fit there, good hands, a good kick and he knows how to get the ball one way or another.

but i take the point that it could leave us short of class around the ground.

Well, leaving him up there takes him out of the game, if there's no run through the centre. As he's one of the primary generators of said run, who's gonna get it to him? He's never exhibited any ability to lead either. Good mark and good kick doesn't really cut it. He's far better used pushing forward during the game...IMO.

so who should our key forwards be? or should we just kick it to roo?

Meh...beats me. Kicking to Roo has always been predicible...G's gone...Kosi doesn't seem to cut it...Gwilt's a million years away, if at all...looks like we got some recruiting to do! For the upcoming match...Roo, Milne, Schnieds and Charlie, with Gram, Goddard and Blake pushing forward. Just a thought, but BJ, definately not an FF consideration as it will really upset what little balance we have.

[bigcarl]

Just a thought, but BJ, definately not an FF consideration as it will really upset what little balance we have.

yeah, i'm not sure i'd have the balls to try something so radical in a final if i was ross, but it might be something to consider down the track.

there's a lot to be said for having a good player at full forward. ask hawthorn. or look at what fraser did for us a few years back.

[degruch]

Just a thought, but BJ, definately not an FF consideration as it will really upset what little balance we have.

yeah, i'm not sure i'd have the balls to try something so radical in a final if i was ross, but it might be something to consider down the track.

there's a lot to be said for having a good player at full forward. ask hawthorn. or look at what fraser did for us a few years back.

Oh yes, I totally agree...Roo's no slouch afterall! I'm talking about the current finals campaign...all up for giving BJ a role there long term, even massaging Gwilt into the role! But please...no silly buggers this week, my heart can't take it.

Now...having said that, watch them pick Rix, Fiora and Gerhig this week!!!

[LTN16]

B: Sam Fisher, Max Hudghton, Jason Gram
HB: Nick Dal Santo, Jason Blake, Xavier Clarke
C: Clint Jones, Lenny Hayes, Robert Harvey
HF: Adam Schneider, Nick Riewoldt, Brendon Goddard
F: Stephen Milne, Justin Koschitzke, Sam Gilbert
Foll: Steven King, Shane Birss, Leigh Montagna

I/C: Robert Eddy, James Gwilt, David Armitage, Raphael Clarke

Out: Andrew McQualter, Charlie Gardiner
In: Shane Birss, David Armitage