Kosi

[milney044]

I'm just worried Kos doesn't want to be here anymore. I could be looking into things too much but his body language imo has been poor the last few weeks, almost like he doesn't want to be there.
But how would i know really, i'm not involved with the club i only see things from the side lines. i just hope what i do see is a misinterpretation.
Kos needs to hit form fast- this week fast.

[WayneJudson42]

Not true. I'd love to see Kosi up and firing, it's just not happening, and harsh decisions have gotta be made, and soon. Time is running out for all concerned.

agree.

[Sobraz]

Sobraz, are you Kosi's agent or his love child?

"An average game in a shocking loss...."

I don't know if you actually go to St Kilda games, watch them on tele or what, but Kosi's game today was not an average game by AFL standards (last week was above average).

He may be far from our worst, but he is one of our highest paid and is not earning that pay.

Most of his games this year have been below average and it is time for him to move on.

Havnt missed a game in Vic for 5 years, and Kosi's 15 possie game was about 10-12th best in our team IMO... There was atleast 6-8 worse than him today....

Dont see threads on the rest of them...

I just stick up for the guy, not kick him when he doesnt deserve to be kicked Shakey...

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Yeah Kosi was the reason we lost today...

Maybe we should trade him for Tim Boyle, or better still, a third round pick??!!!...

Seriously, the Kosi hate on this forum is disgusting... An average game in a shocking loss, and the haters cant wait to log on....

He was far from our worst, but dont let that get in the way of a good blame game...

Was and am still a fan, and have defended him all year. Gotta look at the big picture IMO. If it's a fitness issue, then the club will factor this in. If not, then you gotta examine all options tbh.

8 years of "he could be anything" doesn't cut the mustard. If you can't find a constructive role for him, then u gotta make the tough calls.

For an elite footballer, he has promised much, but delivered little.

Take a long look at our list and see what we lack. If trading a certain player brings a better result, then why not?

ATM, I can't see a spot for him in a premiership team. I do however se a spot for a gun mid, or a good KPP back.

Only on the internet does stuff like this pretend to be serious talk of making tough decisions. All it really is is weak scapegoating.

No place in the team for a tall marking ruck-forward? Turn it up. He's not a superstar. He quite probably never will be... But making the tough call is realising that very few of these creatures exist, and that if he can hold his own in a game, you're closer to having one than most. Making the tough call is sticking with the guy.

Call's of "trade him, he's not good enough" and then expecting to find a gun mid to take his place, or a gun KPP is ridiculous - to command that in return, he'd need to be a gun himself.

You don't unload walk up start talls unless you have to. Sometimes that means patience to the point of never getting anywhere... but that's a genuine tough call.

[brown-coat]

I'm just worried Kos doesn't want to be here anymore. I could be looking into things too much but his body language imo has been poor the last few weeks, almost like he doesn't want to be there.

Bit of Nathan Ablett about him at the moment.

Either he's really down on confidence, lacks fitness, or has lost the desire to play at the elite level.

The point is, we all watch hundreds of thousands of dollars being thrown at him every year for .....what.

[plugger66]

Yeah Kosi was the reason we lost today...

Maybe we should trade him for Tim Boyle, or better still, a third round pick??!!!...

Seriously, the Kosi hate on this forum is disgusting... An average game in a shocking loss, and the haters cant wait to log on....

He was far from our worst, but dont let that get in the way of a good blame game...

Was and am still a fan, and have defended him all year. Gotta look at the big picture IMO. If it's a fitness issue, then the club will factor this in. If not, then you gotta examine all options tbh.

8 years of "he could be anything" doesn't cut the mustard. If you can't find a constructive role for him, then u gotta make the tough calls.

For an elite footballer, he has promised much, but delivered little.

Take a long look at our list and see what we lack. If trading a certain player brings a better result, then why not?

ATM, I can't see a spot for him in a premiership team. I do however se a spot for a gun mid, or a good KPP back.

Only on the internet does stuff like this pretend to be serious talk of making tough decisions. All it really is is weak scapegoating.

No place in the team for a tall marking ruck-forward? Turn it up. He's not a superstar. He quite probably never will be... But making the tough call is realising that very few of these creatures exist, and that if he can hold his own in a game, you're closer to having one than most. Making the tough call is sticking with the guy.

Call's of "trade him, he's not good enough" and then expecting to find a gun mid to take his place, or a gun KPP is ridiculous - to command that in return, he'd need to be a gun himself.

You don't unload walk up start talls unless you have to. Sometimes that means patience to the point of never getting anywhere... but that's a genuine tough call.

So he doesnt have to justify the money earnt. As long as he is in the best 22 we keep him even if he plays like someone on 180 grand but is earning 400 grand. surely what he earns has a bearing on keeping a player or not.

[Bernard Shakey]

I'm not kicking Kosi, Sobraz.

I want the best for St Kilda Football Club, and unfortunately Kosi is not up to it.

You and I pay his salary. I think we should be able to voice our opinions as to whether he stays or goes.

I say he goes.

You say he stays.

Time will tell.

[chook23]

Sobraz, are you Kosi's agent or his love child?

"An average game in a shocking loss...."

I don't know if you actually go to St Kilda games, watch them on tele or what, but Kosi's game today was not an average game by AFL standards (last week was above average).

He may be far from our worst, but he is one of our highest paid and is not earning that pay.

Most of his games this year have been below average and it is time for him to move on.

Havnt missed a game in Vic for 5 years, and Kosi's 15 possie game was about 10-12th best in our team IMO... There was atleast 6-8 worse than him today....

Dont see threads on the rest of them...

I just stick up for the guy, not kick him when he doesnt deserve to be kicked Shakey...

his 15 possies (amount of them) had little to do with determining his value

it was lack of impact those possies had

[BAM! (shhhh)]

So he doesnt have to justify the money earnt. As long as he is in the best 22 we keep him even if he plays like someone on 180 grand but is earning 400 grand. surely what he earns has a bearing on keeping a player or not.

Exactly. Even if you knew how much money he was earning, it only matters as part of managing the team cap. If he needs to be moved in order to keep others it's a different decision, but unless that situation comes up, his salary is irrelivant. Salary will affect trade return, and it'll sort itself out next contract anyway, so unless necessary, it should be the last reason to decide whether he stas or goes.

But if it makes people feel big to set up a strawman to criticise him for, be my guest. He's probably making big money? You probably haven't got the faintest idea what he's making.

[Solar]

Kosi wont get dropped, but he will get traded.

Gold Cost Footy Club doesn't come online for trading until the end of next year.....if they picked him up then (if that's an option), we'd get AFL sanctioned compensation.......try and trade him this trade week and we may get less.

In a word - I reckon there is little if any chance Kosi will be traded this year.

The problem with what you said is he will be out of contract next year so we may get nothing at all.

not if the gold coast decide he is the uncontracted player they want. We will get decient compo from the noises the AFL have made re: GC17

[plugger66]

So he doesnt have to justify the money earnt. As long as he is in the best 22 we keep him even if he plays like someone on 180 grand but is earning 400 grand. surely what he earns has a bearing on keeping a player or not.

Exactly. Even if you knew how much money he was earning, it only matters as part of managing the team cap. If he needs to be moved in order to keep others it's a different decision, but unless that situation comes up, his salary is irrelivant. Salary will affect trade return, and it'll sort itself out next contract anyway, so unless necessary, it should be the last reason to decide whether he stas or goes.

But if it makes people feel big to set up a strawman to criticise him for, be my guest. He's probably making big money? You probably haven't got the faintest idea what he's making.

I dont think you would have to be to smart to say he is getting at least 400 grand so for that amount he needs to play better as his wage has a huge impact on tading for players. If you cannot see that well I give up.

[Winmarvellous]

10-12th best in our team

And this is pretty much where he's been since he joined St Kilda. Hasn't come on, and patience can only last so long. Other clubs may see something in him they could use. ATM I can't. Simple.

[WayneJudson42]

Yeah Kosi was the reason we lost today...

Maybe we should trade him for Tim Boyle, or better still, a third round pick??!!!...

Seriously, the Kosi hate on this forum is disgusting... An average game in a shocking loss, and the haters cant wait to log on....

He was far from our worst, but dont let that get in the way of a good blame game...

Was and am still a fan, and have defended him all year. Gotta look at the big picture IMO. If it's a fitness issue, then the club will factor this in. If not, then you gotta examine all options tbh.

8 years of "he could be anything" doesn't cut the mustard. If you can't find a constructive role for him, then u gotta make the tough calls.

For an elite footballer, he has promised much, but delivered little.

Take a long look at our list and see what we lack. If trading a certain player brings a better result, then why not?

ATM, I can't see a spot for him in a premiership team. I do however se a spot for a gun mid, or a good KPP back.

Only on the internet does stuff like this pretend to be serious talk of making tough decisions. All it really is is weak scapegoating.

No place in the team for a tall marking ruck-forward? Turn it up. He's not a superstar. He quite probably never will be... But making the tough call is realising that very few of these creatures exist, and that if he can hold his own in a game, you're closer to having one than most. Making the tough call is sticking with the guy.

Call's of "trade him, he's not good enough" and then expecting to find a gun mid to take his place, or a gun KPP is ridiculous - to command that in return, he'd need to be a gun himself.

You don't unload walk up start talls unless you have to. Sometimes that means patience to the point of never getting anywhere... but that's a genuine tough call.

Read my previous posts on Kosi u tool. Have defended him to the hilt.

Yes there were far worse players than him today. But he's the type that should lift with all his upside and potential, and the money he earns.

If Gwilt has a bad game, you can accept it coz what you see is what you get. Kosi is a different case IMO.

Finals are a stage where the cream rises to the top... he didn't. simple.

As much as I want all of our players to do well, you still gotta look at the big picture.

Just coz he's tall means jack. Brooks was tall, so was Ackland... and Knobel.

If you can't make him a useful part of the structure, then you'd have to consider a trade.

No player is untouchable, and the same goes for everyone on our list.

So don't accuse me of scapegoating. I've been consistant in my defence of players during my short time on this forum.

[Winmarvellous]

I'm not blaming Kosi for anything today. Played his usual game. Therein lies the problem.

[felixleo]

God he has looked so close at times to reproducing that form before Giansiracusa's crunch that you could tear your hair out (those saints supporters with any left) either he will get back to that or he wont or the speed of the game has passed him by as it has so many others. But it would cut me to the bone to see him starring against us,give him another year or two the upside is enormous and as trade bait the really good deals with the g.c. are down the track.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

So he doesnt have to justify the money earnt. As long as he is in the best 22 we keep him even if he plays like someone on 180 grand but is earning 400 grand. surely what he earns has a bearing on keeping a player or not.

Exactly. Even if you knew how much money he was earning, it only matters as part of managing the team cap. If he needs to be moved in order to keep others it's a different decision, but unless that situation comes up, his salary is irrelivant. Salary will affect trade return, and it'll sort itself out next contract anyway, so unless necessary, it should be the last reason to decide whether he stas or goes.

But if it makes people feel big to set up a strawman to criticise him for, be my guest. He's probably making big money? You probably haven't got the faintest idea what he's making.

I dont think you would have to be to smart to say he is getting at least 400 grand so for that amount he needs to play better as his wage has a huge impact on tading for players. If you cannot see that well I give up.

Well, why don't we take a look at it anyway, even though you've given up on poor lil ol Bam.

400? I'd say that's a pretty speculative number... if AFL average is supposed to be around 200, and there are limited options for a player moving on, his agent would deserve a medal for doubling it. But I've never been in an AFL negotiation, so why don't I say 300, and wait to see if you've got something to rely on so you can make sarcastic jibes.

Who are these players we can't trade for? Where are we against the cap? What's the more efficient spend open to us? None of this is rocket science, there are plenty of sports where $$$ are an open book (mainly because it favours players during negotiations - if Kosi were openly on $400k, Pratt would be licking his chops in an open market system).

But if you can't see it...

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Was and am still a fan, and have defended him all year. Gotta look at the big picture IMO. If it's a fitness issue, then the club will factor this in. If not, then you gotta examine all options tbh.

8 years of "he could be anything" doesn't cut the mustard. If you can't find a constructive role for him, then u gotta make the tough calls.

For an elite footballer, he has promised much, but delivered little.

Take a long look at our list and see what we lack. If trading a certain player brings a better result, then why not?

ATM, I can't see a spot for him in a premiership team. I do however se a spot for a gun mid, or a good KPP back.

Only on the internet does stuff like this pretend to be serious talk of making tough decisions. All it really is is weak scapegoating.

No place in the team for a tall marking ruck-forward? Turn it up. He's not a superstar. He quite probably never will be... But making the tough call is realising that very few of these creatures exist, and that if he can hold his own in a game, you're closer to having one than most. Making the tough call is sticking with the guy.

Call's of "trade him, he's not good enough" and then expecting to find a gun mid to take his place, or a gun KPP is ridiculous - to command that in return, he'd need to be a gun himself.

You don't unload walk up start talls unless you have to. Sometimes that means patience to the point of never getting anywhere... but that's a genuine tough call.

Read my previous posts on Kosi u tool. Have defended him to the hilt.

Yes there were far worse players than him today. But he's the type that should lift with all his upside and potential, and the money he earns.

If Gwilt has a bad game, you can accept it coz what you see is what you get. Kosi is a different case IMO.

Finals are a stage where the cream rises to the top... he didn't. simple.

As much as I want all of our players to do well, you still gotta look at the big picture.

Just coz he's tall means jack. Brooks was tall, so was Ackland... and Knobel.

If you can't make him a useful part of the structure, then you'd have to consider a trade.

No player is untouchable, and the same goes for everyone on our list.

So don't accuse me of scapegoating. I've been consistant in my defence of players during my short time on this forum.

I haven't read all your previous posts? Gee, silly me, my records trying to keep track of WJ42s thoughts must be off.

If you want to look at the big picture, try actually doing it - the post I responded to was little more than kneejerk rhetoric. You pretty much say it above - your problem with Kosi is that he didn't rise to the top.

If a player dissapoints your expectations once, shame on them. They do it twice, shame on you. If you're expecting Kosi to carry this team through finals, then wake the F up.

If you want to trade him because he's not carrying us through finals, then I still think you're scapegoating.

Brooks never made the AFL. Knobel walked - guess what we had to spend resources to fill a void. Ackland - who also walked... and left a hole that we've scrambled to fill. These are really your examples of why we wouldn't miss Koschitzke? All 3 are much worse than Kosi, and bar Brooks, we'd have been better if the other 2 hadn't walked.

No player is untouchable - but seriously, you've got to have something in mind better than punisishing them for not fulfilling your hopes to unload someone.

[realdeal]

kosi was not great tonight and will probably never reach the potential that he should but we have to keep going because he's our best hope and he can do stuff..

we've got about 5-6 guys on our team who are fringe. we can't afford that many players like that.. 2-3 maybe.

most people thought we'd get done anyway, we have a second chance people!!

geelong is a gun team, we got some experience so lets put it to use and kick butt next week against the pies!!!

hopefully we get ball back and X doesn't look like an u/17 player..

[Bernard Shakey]

kosi was not great tonight and will probably never reach the potential that he should but we have to keep going because he's our best hope and he can do stuff..

I agree Kosi can do stuff..

Stuff all..

[plugger66]

So he doesnt have to justify the money earnt. As long as he is in the best 22 we keep him even if he plays like someone on 180 grand but is earning 400 grand. surely what he earns has a bearing on keeping a player or not.

Exactly. Even if you knew how much money he was earning, it only matters as part of managing the team cap. If he needs to be moved in order to keep others it's a different decision, but unless that situation comes up, his salary is irrelivant. Salary will affect trade return, and it'll sort itself out next contract anyway, so unless necessary, it should be the last reason to decide whether he stas or goes.

But if it makes people feel big to set up a strawman to criticise him for, be my guest. He's probably making big money? You probably haven't got the faintest idea what he's making.

I dont think you would have to be to smart to say he is getting at least 400 grand so for that amount he needs to play better as his wage has a huge impact on tading for players. If you cannot see that well I give up.

Well, why don't we take a look at it anyway, even though you've given up on poor lil ol Bam.

400? I'd say that's a pretty speculative number... if AFL average is supposed to be around 200, and there are limited options for a player moving on, his agent would deserve a medal for doubling it. But I've never been in an AFL negotiation, so why don't I say 300, and wait to see if you've got something to rely on so you can make sarcastic jibes.

Who are these players we can't trade for? Where are we against the cap? What's the more efficient spend open to us? None of this is rocket science, there are plenty of sports where $$$ are an open book (mainly because it favours players during negotiations - if Kosi were openly on $400k, Pratt would be licking his chops in an open market system).

But if you can't see it...

No you are right. Lets not even look at trading him. Lets be happy that he plays well every 10th game. Kosi has potential. The problem is he is 25 and should be at his peak. I like Kosi but I like the Saints more and if we could get a trade that may be in our favour we should look at it. Sorry I want to try to improve the side.

[bigred]

Been a long time supporter of Kosi. He is an absolutely ripping bloke, honest as anyone can be.

Problem is....

He isnt fit. He has not been fit for a few years.

He has no position.

He has a huge amount of talent.

He cannot live up to it at the moment.

Well and truly broken under the weight of expectation.

Needs a full, uninterupted preseason. Still, this may not change a single thing.

Those that were saying that he was going to be the "wildcard" for the Geelong game were absolutely dilusional. Since when have we been able to count on Kosi to get us over the line? Absolute twaddle.

I dont know if I would be prepared to trade him yet. I dont think we have seen anywhere remotely near his best. If we got offered a first rounder for him, sheesh you would have to think about it....Not that I believe that it could happen.

He shouldnt be a scapegoat for the Geelong hiding. He was not the lone ranger.

I have lost patience with him. But that said, I believe his body isnt right yet. At least he has strung some games together this year. That better than the last five.....

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Well, why don't we take a look at it anyway, even though you've given up on poor lil ol Bam.

400? I'd say that's a pretty speculative number... if AFL average is supposed to be around 200, and there are limited options for a player moving on, his agent would deserve a medal for doubling it. But I've never been in an AFL negotiation, so why don't I say 300, and wait to see if you've got something to rely on so you can make sarcastic jibes.

Who are these players we can't trade for? Where are we against the cap? What's the more efficient spend open to us? None of this is rocket science, there are plenty of sports where $$$ are an open book (mainly because it favours players during negotiations - if Kosi were openly on $400k, Pratt would be licking his chops in an open market system).

But if you can't see it...

No you are right. Lets not even look at trading him. Lets be happy that he plays well every 10th game. Kosi has potential. The problem is he is 25 and should be at his peak. I like Kosi but I like the Saints more and if we could get a trade that may be in our favour we should look at it. Sorry I want to try to improve the side.

Excellent job. Whoever said the things you're contradicting sure has egg on their face.

Perhaps he is at his peak. Perhaps he'll never get better. It's sure going to be tough to trade him on potential at 25. Since we've got no idea of the $$$, it's probably time to accept that what we've got is a useful tall and not a superstar, that we're not going to get a superstar by trading him (and by all means look, field offers, the whole 9 yards - but you've got to give action to get action, and action isn't an ordinary, allegedly overpaid, 2nd ruck/forward), and move on.

But if you're not there yet, that's fine. You're generally pretty cluey, you'll get there in the end.

[Moccha]

The first year in his career that he's played 18 or 19 games in the season. Deserves one more year to see if he can produce the goods

[WayneJudson42]

The first year in his career that he's played 18 or 19 games in the season. Deserves one more year to see if he can produce the goods

Fair enough view. And maybe that's what the coach will decide. And that's fine with me, as they are in the best position to know.

[markp]

G-train at 60% would've been better value yesterday.