FRANKSTON DEAL NOT DONE YET

[barks4eva]

It seems strange for a person who has approximately 2000 threads to his name containing references to "Todger-Tugging" etc., should take exception to the phrase "c**k-up"

I am as passionate and as angry as you are B4, but without the deafening rumblings of my ancestors turning over in their graves. (they were all pommies, unfortunately.)

IMHO, there is no better description of this relocation process other than stating that it is a complete c**k-up, and I stand by that description. Others more versed in the literary arts like yourself may be able to put it more succinctly, but to me that is what it is, pure and simple.

Perhaps if you developed a sense of humour, it might prolong your life as a Saints Fan. Believe me, after 50 years I find it helps. I too am pissed off, but life is too short to let it ruin your whole day.

No I did not mind your c**k up line, I wasn't referring to this at all, I actually like it.


I was referring to all the infantile posts, the innuendo about the pubic golf course in the other thread, you made SIX POSTS, one repeated one minute later and totally hijacked the thread with this nonsense.

It is a very serious matter, the board are now considering whether to tip in an extra $800,000 of St.kilda football Club money into this rubbish dump of a location.

I know for a FACT that he board read this site and almost one page of inane drivel was propogated by you.

Normally I would not mind, but this is a VERY SERIOUS ISSUE> if you would post more about what you really feel on the matter and leave your attempts at comedy for other threads on less serious matters, I would not mind so much.

[GrumpyOne]

It seems strange for a person who has approximately 2000 threads to his name containing references to "Todger-Tugging" etc., should take exception to the phrase "c**k-up"

I am as passionate and as angry as you are B4, but without the deafening rumblings of my ancestors turning over in their graves. (they were all pommies, unfortunately.)

IMHO, there is no better description of this relocation process other than stating that it is a complete c**k-up, and I stand by that description. Others more versed in the literary arts like yourself may be able to put it more succinctly, but to me that is what it is, pure and simple.

Perhaps if you developed a sense of humour, it might prolong your life as a Saints Fan. Believe me, after 50 years I find it helps. I too am pissed off, but life is too short to let it ruin your whole day.

No I did not mind your c**k up line, I wasn't referring to this at all, I actually like it.


I was referring to all the infantile posts, the innuendo about the pubic golf course in the other thread, you made SIX POSTS, one repeated one minute later and totally hijacked the thread with this nonsense.

It is a very serious matter, the board are now considering whether to tip in an extra $800,000 of St.kilda football Club money into this rubbish dump of a location.

I know for a FACT that he board read this site and almost one page of inane drivel was propogated by you.

Normally I would not mind, but this is a VERY SERIOUS ISSUE> if you would post more about what you really feel on the matter and leave your attempts at comedy for other threads on less serious matters, I would not mind so much.

I am indeed flattered with your obvious interest in my posts.

If in fact the board read this site and take notice of all the rubbish on here, its time we elected a new board.

Actually you may have a point here. Some of the decisions made on our relocation are as sensible as some of our discussions. All it needs is a proposal for a lifesized statue of JLH to be erected for me to be fully convinced of that fact.

[casey scorp]

I think we need to build a mighty fine erection at Elsternwick Park and maybe a social venue nearby?

A mighty fine erection is needed to ensure we have the best possible training facilities going around. Then we can prick the Lexus Centre bubble once and for all.

State of the art version 4 coming up?

[SENsei]

caseyscorp,

Wouldn't mind getting your thoughts on Elsternwick Park as a viable alternative?

[casey scorp]

I can't make any comment about the site as I don't know it well (althougth my early years were in Elwood, and my mum played tennis at the adjacent tennis club so I was there a bit, I left there in 1966).

However I plan to have a look at it tomorrow, and may be able to offer an opinion afterwards.

[SENsei]

I can't make any comment about the site as I don't know it well (althougth my early years were in Elwood, and my mum played tennis at the adjacent tennis club so I was there a bit, I left there in 1966).

However I plan to have a look at it tomorrow, and may be able to offer an opinion afterwards.

Going from Archie's response just now to MM, I doubt it is going to matter in any case.

1966??? Some of us weren't even born then fella!!

[ace]

Concentrate on what matters.

1 Money from governments - need to maximise money contributed from Federal, State and Local goverment.

2 Money from sponsors - need to have industries in or moving into the area who will want to identify with the club and the ground. (Geelong have Ford, a large local sponsor)

3 Money from pokies - not so important these days as it used to be, but every dollar helps so the local council must be prepared to support pokie
licenses and not kill them like Kingston.

4 Money from new supporters - moving to a new location provides the opportunity to recruit an increased supporter base.
I was a very small boy when St Kilda moved to Moorabin but as the club was reasonably successful and local, so I became a St Kilda supporter for 45 years.
I did not go to my first match at Moorabbin for 10 years because my Mum was not interested and my Dad was from NSW.
But I did see the 66 finals series using my grandfather's MCC ladies ticket.
Give me another premiership before I die.

5 Control of the ground and other developments - the club needs to be able to control its destiny and not be subject to the changing whims of local councils and their residents. Kingston residents will only be too pleased to see the back of St Kilda and hope to get back control of the land now, but 45 years ago they really wanted St Kilda. The club needs to free to build and expand facilities and social clubs buildings as needed.

6 Supporters need to be able to access the club easily by both public transport and car with free parking (or club charging for parking).


Now tell me where we should go.

[Bernard Shakey]

ace,

Taking all your points into account, I would have to say Elsternwick Park (train, tram, bus and on Nepean Highway).

I would prefer Moorabbin or TB Oval

[casey scorp]

I did a bit of checking on the internet last night and dropped in and had a look at Elsternwick Park today.

While I’ve no doubt the facility could fit on the site, I think there are a few issues which would count against it.

Cricket Club
The most significant is that there is a cricket club there. Even if everything else stacked up well, there would be the local politics involved in trying to move out a well-established local club. And it would have to go – a cricket club cannot co-exist with an AFL club on the same oval. While a growth Council like Casey has new grounds that can be developed to offer in exchange, the City of Bayside is not able to do this (unless it has a spare ground somewhere – which is pretty unlikely). It appears that the Elsternwick Cricket Club has had its on-going tenancy confirmed recently by the City of Bayside.

Growth Area Population
The next issue is access to a growth area population. Such a population is important to St Kilda. Archie’s comment on Saintscentral confirms this:

The reason that we are joining with Sandringham is that it makes sense for us to stamp an ownership of the Bayside growth corridor and Sandringham is a perfect fit.

I think it is almost a century since there has been the equivalent of a Bayside growth corridor in the Brighton/Sandringham/Elsternwick area, but nevertheless a “growth corridorâ€

[SENsei]

Our own mini feasability study completed.

Cheers caseyscorp.



On Moorabbin, still not convinced this is also the right option to re-pursue. Too much water under the bridge I think.

And there might be extra costs for removal of the stands? We can't just burn those down....

[Bernard Shakey]

Gelignite?

[St Fidelius]

excellent points casey scorp....

Seeing there are two posts on basically the same issue, God knows why the other post was not even considered to be merged onto this one....

Fancy running another post .....

Oh, of course.....

It must be the OP....

From the "other thread"..........




I am NOT a fan of sharing facilities with another football club or cricket club

the best option is to remain at Moorabbin or find some other place that we don't have to share facilities with...

I NEVER liked the option of Sandringham Rolling Eyes

Or Casey for that matter...

Frankston did sound Okay, but on a re think the sharing of facilities with an opposition VFL side is not really a good fit...

The Saints must find an area that is free from cricket or sharing facilities with another football club.

The best fit is Moorabbin.

If this fell over because of the pokies issue, the Club should renegotiate ...

We can be grateful for one thing...

At least Melbourne moved to Casey Fields instead of approaching Kingston Council and enquiring about "the soon to be vacant Moorabbin ground"

That would have been extremely embarrassing ...........

Wake up Saints Admin FFS

Even more scary is that the surrounds of Moorabbin used to be Melbourne's recruiting area before the the draft commenced...

and there are plenty of Melbourne fans still in the area...

It would be a shame if a deal cannot be made with the Kingston Council IMO, the area is free of another football or cricket club...

[St Fidelius]

Our own mini feasability study completed.

Cheers caseyscorp.



On Moorabbin, still not convinced this is also the right option to re-pursue. Too much water under the bridge I think.

And there might be extra costs for removal of the stands? We can't just burn those down....

Please correct me if I am wrong (as I am sure you will)........

Weren't the cost of the removal of the stands budgeted into the plan to start with, with respect to the Moorabbin proposal???

Was the main factor about extra pokies and to have them on a more profile location as in South Rd???

Now we have the clowns in the Admin wanting Belvidere Park, yep way to go for a "High Profile" area....

The numb nuts, like Archie Fraser has to go IMO....

Even Rod Butterss thought there was a solution to the Moorabbin deal....

[Mr Magic]

Our own mini feasability study completed.

Cheers caseyscorp.



On Moorabbin, still not convinced this is also the right option to re-pursue. Too much water under the bridge I think.

And there might be extra costs for removal of the stands? We can't just burn those down....

Please correct me if I am wrong (as I am sure you will)........

Weren't the cost of the removal of the stands budgeted into the plan to start with, with respect to the Moorabbin proposal???

Was the main factor about extra pokies and to have them on a more profile location as in South Rd???

Now we have the clowns in the Admin wanting Belvidere Park, yep way to go for a "High Profile" area....

The numb nuts, like Archie Fraser has to go IMO....

Even Rod Butterss thought there was a solution to the Moorabbin deal....

I think you're mixing a few issues up.

The original proposal at Morrabbin was for the council to give/sell us some land on South Road for us to build a new Socail CLub containing 88 pokies (currently what we have). Thew Council then refused to guarantee that we would have the 88 pokies and the whole deal fell over.

The new proposal at Frankston was for an elite training facility (no Social CLub at all) so the question of Pokies doesn't arise.

I understood we would continue to operate the current Social Club until the lease runs out (about 30 years).

[karnak]

the solution is easy,

The club ensures the stands at moorabbin are insured for 20 million dollars. They let the members know that they've just increased the insurance on the stands and explain how much it would cost to get them taken away...........

[ausfatcat]

As Mr Magic said the whole deal at Moorrabbin hinder on a purchase of land and the transfer (not increase) of the pokies to get a 6 million dollar loan, to build the training facility. The council was only going to pitch in to basicly remove the grandstands (which they would've been responsible for anyway) and give a cheap land deal.

When the council refused to endourse that they wouldn't ask for a reduction of the number of pokies when they were transfered (when transfering they have to reapply to Vic Gaming) the banks got nervous on the funding of the 6 million dollar loan. The deal was dead..


Doesn't mean they couldn't have looked at anther different deal thou.

[saintbrat]

how come we can't find a council like the gold coast one- $10 mill - there you go

we struggle to find one with the foresight to offer even a drop in the bucket.

[casey scorp]

Our own mini feasability study completed.

Cheers caseyscorp.



On Moorabbin, still not convinced this is also the right option to re-pursue. Too much water under the bridge I think.

And there might be extra costs for removal of the stands? We can't just burn those down....

Since the original budget allocations towards the Moorabbin redevelopment project (which had to cover the costs of grandstand removal) the State Govt has thrown in an additional $500,000 specifically for removal of the old grandstand.

how come we can't find a council like the gold coast one- $10 mill - there you go

we struggle to find one with the foresight to offer even a drop in the bucket.

Casey Council's contribution would have been $3-$4 million, and that was without any serious discussion. With an annual budget of $190 million, including a capital works program of $40-$50 million, serious discussions may well have resulted in a considerably greater offer (noting that the Council is contributing about $1.5 million to a temporary relocation of just Melbourne's football department - imagine what the Council would have stumped up for a permanent relocation of a full club operation).

[plugger66]

Our own mini feasability study completed.

Cheers caseyscorp.



On Moorabbin, still not convinced this is also the right option to re-pursue. Too much water under the bridge I think.

And there might be extra costs for removal of the stands? We can't just burn those down....

Since the original budget allocations towards the Moorabbin redevelopment project (which had to cover the costs of grandstand removal) the State Govt has thrown in an additional $500,000 specifically for removal of the old grandstand.

how come we can't find a council like the gold coast one- $10 mill - there you go

we struggle to find one with the foresight to offer even a drop in the bucket.

Casey Council's contribution would have been $3-$4 million, and that was without any serious discussion. With an annual budget of $190 million, including a capital works program of $40-$50 million, serious discussions may well have resulted in a considerably greater offer (noting that the Council is contributing about $1.5 million to a temporary relocation of just Melbourne's football department - imagine what the Council would have stumped up for a permanent relocation of a full club operation).

I thought you said you realised Casey was dead yet you keep mentioning it. Get over it. It is gone. Finished. Stuffed.

[casey scorp]

I thought you said you realised Casey was dead yet you keep mentioning it. Get over it. It is gone. Finished. Stuffed.

You seem to wonder why I mentioned Casey, as if it was a comment out of the blue. I mentioned it in response to Saintbrat's comment:

how come we can't find a council like the gold coast one- $10 mill - there you go

we struggle to find one with the foresight to offer even a drop in the bucket.

So I said:

Casey Council's contribution would have been $3-$4 million, and that was without any serious discussion. With an annual budget of $190 million, including a capital works program of $40-$50 million, serious discussions may well have resulted in a considerably greater offer (noting that the Council is contributing about $1.5 million to a temporary relocation of just Melbourne's football department - imagine what the Council would have stumped up for a permanent relocation of a full club operation).

Simple really.

[st48]

most people forget the simple fact that you cant just pop into a council and say "you have got a nice oval, we want to take over and by the way you have to give us $4mil to do it".
the club said they have looked at every oval south of port melb and spoken to every council; stop harping on about Elsternwick. it is obvious that the council dont want us and if we start sharing grounds with cricket clubs we will end up like Melbourne who do preseason on a different ground every day.

[casey scorp]

the club said they have looked at every oval south of port melb and spoken to every council

Unfortunately, not a thorough enough assessment of options though.

They rejected ones they shouldn't have (Casey Fields), and on the flip side embraced other ones they shouldn't have (Frankston Park, Belvedere Park).

if we start sharing grounds with cricket clubs we will end up like Melbourne who do preseason on a different ground every day.

Not any more.

Melbourne has slipped into the vacuum we left at Casey Fields. They'll take over an alignment with our VFL finals playing side (the Casey Scorpions), and they've got the ground that should have been ours. MFC's future ground arrangements are slipping nicely into place it seems (although maybe taking a little longer to get the i's dotted and the t's crossed).

MFC will undertake the forthcoming pre-season training at Casey Fields, and Casey Council have given them a 30 year deal.

[st48]

Frankston was always a better deal than Casey and you cant tell me that having a presence at Sandringham is not far better than playing at Casey. try recruiting a player from Perth, Bris, Freo or even Adelaide and tell them they have to train at Casey - good luck.

Melbourne were so desperate to get a ground without a cricket pitch they accepted any deal. the fact is they will dump it as soon as the new ground is built in Richmond and will train at the corner of Punt and Swan. MFC have no long term plans for Casey other than a training ground until a better one comes along.

[casey scorp]

MFC have no long term plans for Casey other than a training ground until a better one comes along.

Sorry, I think you're misinformed.

[st48]

Not really misinformed. I know they have strtuck a deal with Collingwood that they will share Goschs paddock which is right next to their new training facility when it gets built. Why would they have admin, weights, pool, medical, change rooms etc in Richmond and then jump in there cars and train at Casey?