FRANKSTON DEAL NOT DONE YET

[saint66au]

One of the reasons Archie's gone to Ireland is to 'seal the deal' for a 'state of the art' training facility in Dublin.

or maybe the Island of St Kilda-

Nah....cold, windswept and nowhere near public transport...all the reasons Casey was no good

It might get cold at Casey Fields in winter, but so does the rest of Melbourne (if you want warmth, suggst moving the club to the Gold Coast)

Yes, probably more windy than other areas which are developed, but it will be surrounded by development in 10 years.

Public transport - a shortcoming for those who don't drive. I doubt there are too many players and staff who don't drive.

But, most importantly, it would have been well under construction by now at Casey Fields!!!

There are those who say they don't care where the facility is located, so long as the players get the best facilities. Then there are those who support Frankston.

Except that there would be a chorus of disapproval from those who are opposed to Casey Fields, I would suggest that the Saints make a call to Casey to see whether the MFC deal is fully and irrevocably locked away (there doesn't seem to have been any official announcement, and if MFC is as quick to make redevelopment/relocation announcements as St KFC is without having all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed, then perhaps it isn't as finalised as I thought).

It.was.a.joke

[GrumpyOne]

It.was.a.joke

With respect 66, there is very little about the continuing cockup that is our search for a new home to laugh at.

[saintspremiers]

Bloody Carltoon are already starting the redevelopment of Cardboard Park, Footscray and well into their project at Whitten Oval, and we are nowhere.

Well done Archie, NOT!

[SENsei]

It.was.a.joke

With respect 66, there is very little about the continuing cockup that is our search for a new home to laugh at.

I got the joke originally and I thought it was a beauty.

The right blend of sarcasm and piss take.

Brilliant.

[RedWhiteBlack]

An update from Archie as posted on the club's official message board:

Our Frankston move is progressing well, although we’ve been slightly waylaid with looming Council elections contributing towards the delayed decision. Basically, we’ve proposed two options to the Frankston Council – Frankston Park and Belvedere Park. The Frankston Park option ended up exceeding the initial budget by approximately $5.5m due to sewerage pipes needing to be dug up and moved and the widening of the oval to AFL standards. The Belvedere Park site fits within budget and enables us to deliver all of the community benefits such as rehabilitation pool, tennis and netball courts and conference facilities. There are currently discussions to include the Dandenong Stingrays in this facility too. I think we’re making good progress and just last week the State Government urged the local council to accept our proposal – I’ve copied this for you below. I don’t think it will be long before we’re approved and can start construction of this world-class facility.

FUNDING CONFIRMED FOR SAINTS MOVE TO BELVEDERE PARK

“The St Kilda Football Club moving to Belvedere Oval will be a boom for the wider Frankston area and will provide numerous benefits for local residents, health providers, educational institutions – for the whole region.

“The importance of the project at the Belvedere Oval is not lost on the Brumby Government and I am happy to say that the Sport and Recreation Minister James Merlino has agreed to transfer funding for the Frankston Oval project to the proposed new development.

“The Belvedere project will transform the oval into a state-of-the-art sporting facility for elite athletes, as well as providing important community benefits for local people.

“The Government and the Saints have both made the commitment to Belvedere Oval and it is now time for Frankston City Council to step up and make good on its agreement to sign off on this important project.

“I call on Frankston City Council to help deliver this project for the community as set out in the proposed Heads of Agreement for the Belvedere project."

[spert]

Pretty sad

[GrumpyOne]

The Frankston Park option ended up exceeding the initial budget by approximately $5.5m due to sewerage pipes needing to be dug up and moved and the widening of the oval to AFL standards.

C'mon Archie....... $5.5m to dig up sewerage pipes?

Are we redeveloping the whole of Frankston or just one oval?

[plugger66]

One of the reasons Archie's gone to Ireland is to 'seal the deal' for a 'state of the art' training facility in Dublin.

or maybe the Island of St Kilda-

Nah....cold, windswept and nowhere near public transport...all the reasons Casey was no good

It might get cold at Casey Fields in winter, but so does the rest of Melbourne (if you want warmth, suggst moving the club to the Gold Coast)

Yes, probably more windy than other areas which are developed, but it will be surrounded by development in 10 years.

Public transport - a shortcoming for those who don't drive. I doubt there are too many players and staff who don't drive.

But, most importantly, it would have been well under construction by now at Casey Fields!!!

There are those who say they don't care where the facility is located, so long as the players get the best facilities. Then there are those who support Frankston.

Except that there would be a chorus of disapproval from those who are opposed to Casey Fields, I would suggest that the Saints make a call to Casey to see whether the MFC deal is fully and irrevocably locked away (there doesn't seem to have been any official announcement, and if MFC is as quick to make redevelopment/relocation announcements as St KFC is without having all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed, then perhaps it isn't as finalised as I thought).

Casey is dead and buried. You need to get over it and support wherever we end up.

[ausfatcat]

From Archie via "ask archie" on the saintscentral website.

A nice little update

Sure thing! Our Frankston move is progressing well, although we’ve been slightly waylaid with looming Council elections contributing towards the delayed decision. Basically, we’ve proposed two options to the Frankston Council – Frankston Park and Belvedere Park. The Frankston Park option ended up exceeding the initial budget by approximately $5.5m due to sewerage pipes needing to be dug up and moved and the widening of the oval to AFL standards. The Belvedere Park site fits within budget and enables us to deliver all of the community benefits such as rehabilitation pool, tennis and netball courts and conference facilities. There are currently discussions to include the Dandenong Stingrays in this facility too. I think we’re making good progress and just last week the State Government urged the local council to accept our proposal – I’ve copied this for you below. I don’t think it will be long before we’re approved and can start construction of this world-class facility.


Quote:
FUNDING CONFIRMED FOR SAINTS MOVE TO BELVEDERE PARK

“The St Kilda Football Club moving to Belvedere Oval will be a boom for the wider Frankston area and will provide numerous benefits for local residents, health providers, educational institutions – for the whole region.

“The importance of the project at the Belvedere Oval is not lost on the Brumby Government and I am happy to say that the Sport and Recreation Minister James Merlino has agreed to transfer funding for the Frankston Oval project to the proposed new development.

“The Belvedere project will transform the oval into a state-of-the-art sporting facility for elite athletes, as well as providing important community benefits for local people.

“The Government and the Saints have both made the commitment to Belvedere Oval and it is now time for Frankston City Council to step up and make good on its agreement to sign off on this important project.

“I call on Frankston City Council to help deliver this project for the community as set out in the proposed Heads of Agreement for the Belvedere project."


Go Saints!
Archie

[barks4eva]

This Belvedere Park thing is a disgrace, the entire board should be voted out for being so short sighted to not be able to grasp that this whole episode is an unmitigated disaster and if we continue to, not read the SIGNS and end up developing this hole, then far be it from me to be the first one to tell you all in 5 or so years, when it helps to send this club another 5 to 10 years backwards.

Collingwood have the Lexus centre a drop punt away from the MCG, near the city and our board FAIR DINKUM want us to believe that Belvedere Park is our new utopian mecca

Time for a board challenge and throw out these numbnuts, Belvedere Park, oh perleeeeeeeeeeze, what a fair dinkum disgrace.

Future stars of the AFL , come to St.Kilda and our new home at Belvedere Park, we may a well call it Amanda Vanstone Park, FAIR DINKUM, pull out now before we go in and end up creating z moster that will haunt us for years.

St.Kilda or Sandringham or FO



St.Kilda in St.Kilda

I will make it happen

Is it too late for a board challenge to stop this nonsene?

FAIR DINKUM

Vote 1 b4e

[casey scorp]

It.was.a.joke

With respect 66, there is very little about the continuing cockup that is our search for a new home to laugh at.

I got the joke originally and I thought it was a beauty.

The right blend of sarcasm and piss take.

Brilliant.

I realised it was a joke.

But I'll always take the opportunity to promote the relevant benefits of Casey Fields (and the relevant disbenefits of Frankston Park or Belvedere Park).

[barks4eva]

It.was.a.joke

With respect 66, there is very little about the continuing cockup that is our search for a new home to laugh at.

I got the joke originally and I thought it was a beauty.

The right blend of sarcasm and piss take.

Brilliant.

I realised it was a joke.

But I'll always take the opportunity to promote the relevant benefits of Casey Fields (and the relevant disbenefits of Frankston Park or Belvedere Park).

Belvedere Park, Frankston or Casey Fields, what's the difference, they all suck big time.

This club the ST.KILDA FOOTBALL CLUB, belongs in St.Kilda or Sandringham at the Trevor Barker Oval at our newly aligned VFL club.

The ONLY other option worthy of consideration is getting the state government to intervene as they did with the Western Bulldogs recently and stay at Moorabbin.

This is a complete and utter fiasco, but to make matters worse the club is still persisting with this nonsense, even after things started going pear shaped.

Can the board not read the signs, or do they need to apologize years down the track, claiming, with the benefit of hindsight, we........blah blah blah , yada yada

This is an outrage.

Belvedere Park, of FFS, PERLEEEEEEEEZE

Time for a board challenge!

[Seaford_Saint]

call me selfish / narrow minded..... i don't care.... Seaford Saint says.... good decision Archie!!!...

The Saints training at my backdoor!!

[St Fidelius]

It.was.a.joke

With respect 66, there is very little about the continuing cockup that is our search for a new home to laugh at.

I got the joke originally and I thought it was a beauty.

The right blend of sarcasm and piss take.

Brilliant.

I realised it was a joke.

But I'll always take the opportunity to promote the relevant benefits of Casey Fields (and the relevant disbenefits of Frankston Park or Belvedere Park).

Belvedere Park, Frankston or Casey Fields, what's the difference, they all suck big time.

This club the ST.KILDA FOOTBALL CLUB, belongs in St.Kilda or Sandringham at the Trevor Barker Oval at our newly aligned VFL club.

The ONLY other option worthy of consideration is getting the state government to intervene as they did with the Western Bulldogs recently and stay at Moorabbin.

This is a complete and utter fiasco, but to make matters worse the club is still persisting with this nonsense, even after things started going pear shaped.

Can the board not read the signs, or do they need to apologize years down the track, claiming, with the benefit of hindsight, we........blah blah blah , yada yada

This is an outrage.

Belvedere Park, of FFS, PERLEEEEEEEEZE

Time for a board challenge!

With respect...

You were originally in favour of the move to Frankston...

I am not in favour of Belvedere Park though...and was not in favour of Casey....

But it seems to me that we are put in a corner on this relocation

The State Government will only give the Saints the money

that the same community benefits will be delivered

One doubts that the same community benefits will be delivered to the remote Belvedere Park site...

Not public transport access for starters...

But the Government is still willing to give us the money...

It appears that the State Government will give us their promised funding no matter where we relocate...

The problem lies (pun intended) rests with Council(s)

I would near on guarantee that the Saints are not too happy with Belvedere Park, but other options are very few, when you look at funding a project without a willing Council...

[St Fidelius]

also the Hawks don't train at their "spiritual" anymore and train at Waverley

Collingwood is the same...

Forget your deluded dream of training at St Kilda FFS...

Way too costly and I could not see that happening in a million years

[BigMart]

I have never got involved in this debate......more interested in footy than politics.....which is why I find Caro insignificant, but.....

To me the club have made a series of bad decisions and may have backed itself into a corner.....the cost of making rushed decisions...

Without ant Bias (I don't carewhere they train)

Moorabbin should have been re-developed as the training centre, as was planned....but as usual councillors think they are more important than they are and F*** things up.....as do administrators...We already have a long term lease on the place....a history there and a social base......plus we just spent a sh*tload relaying the ground....financially the most sense...

Casey would clearly have been the cheapest option, with the best facilities (due to space) and would have paid enormous dividends in 25 years.....(as Moorabbin did)....a long term vision was required.....we already had a foothold and finally the partnership was working....we could have built the stadium up to the standard where we could play pre-season games/intertate teams at a huge profit...Two more grandstands were required......the long-term future of the club would have been gauranteed.
It would have been the least preferred option amongst current members and players due to location

Frankston taps into our bayside culture.....and would strengthen our grip on bayside support.....it is a boutique ground....almost to small for VFL matches and there is little or NO room for expansion......we would also be sharing facilities with a opposition VFL club....who will never amalgamate.....Frankston is cheaper than areas closer to the city...

Sandringham is logical, but not probable....the Zebras do not want to lose their identity and ground....so when we affiliate, they will dictate the VFL side of things....they understand that if you let a larger entity move in, it's only a matter of time before you are squeezed out and end up at 'dendy park'.......TBO was named as such for Barks contribution to Sandringham (between 1990-1995) and has Zero to do with his Saints playing days.....he was actually recruited from Chelt FC.......The ground is also 'boutique' like Frankston and has little room to expand......the current players would welcome this move.....

Inner city....like Port Melb or Junction is not economically viable.....most operations move out to expand......

My verdict......Chelsea reserve.

[St Fidelius]

Good post BigMart...

Frankston has been approached twice by the Saints (at the very least) the last approach that has been recorded was about 3 years ago, and one would think they were approached again prior to the move...

So that makes it more than likely 4 times...

Carlton is also recorded as approaching Frankston for an affiliation and were knocked back...

The only recorded approach was once, but it may have been more...

Frankston want to be a stand alone club and have stated this for many many years....

The bad blood with Moorabbin is something that really gets me big time...

Far too many hot heads, and bravado, looks like the likely suspect IMO...

I do recall Archie Fraser stating that Moorabbin was a NO GO, and Butterss coming back from overseas and stating that it was NOT a no go...

(something he may have had right at the time)

But it seems that no one was interested in what Butterss thought...

It seems to me that the CEO has muddled (sorry farked) this and now he is being paid to go to Ireland in the midst of applying for other positions is just a joke...

Just why is this Archie Fraser still employed and just what answers has he with respect to the whole deal???

[SENsei]

Strong contributions to the debate.

I was very sure that the club hadn't farked it up, but I'm slowly coming around to the other angle thanks to caseyscorp's constant bleatings about it. And I mean that in a good way.

There are plenty of strange decisions being made, from the outside looking in.

[Bernard Shakey]

Tassie within 5 years. Mark my words.

Club has stuffed up badly and will find itself in severe financial strife before long.

The only way out will be to relocate. Tassie will have it's AFL team and I will be devastated.

[St Fidelius]

I was very sure that the club hadn't farked it up.

Can you please enlighten me and others on just why you think so

[barks4eva]

With respect...

You were originally in favour of the move to Frankston...

Not so, I was not happy with the Frankston move from day one, but was relieved it wasn't Casey.

I thought oh well, everything is organized, everyone's on board, tried to look at the positives and accepted it, thought we'd align with the Dolphins etc...etc...gateway to the peninsula, tried to convince myself that perhaps it was ok.........


THEN

a number of things have happened

We aligned ourselves with Sandringham

AND

the whole INITIAL deal with Frankston went pear shaped

From day one, I wanted the club based back in St.kilda and firmly believe that if the St.Kilda board was committed to such a scenario, with state government support, this could be entirely possible.

AND a precedent was set with the state government intervening on the bulldogs behalf with a recalcitrant council, surely the same thing could see us stay at Moorabbin.

Or why not do every thing in our power to embrace the Sandringham alignment?


It seems that our board have a grander vision though, Belvedere Park in Seaford

FAIR DINKUM

St.kilda board, vision for the future




Belvedere park, you've got to be fair dinkum kidding me, surely.

Someone tell me, they're having a lend, perleeeeeeeeeeze.

[casey scorp]

I was very sure that the club hadn't farked it up, but I'm slowly coming around to the other angle thanks to caseyscorp's constant bleatings about it. And I mean that in a good way.

I strongly supported Casey, but accept that others didn't.

Just tried to bring some perspective and pragmatism to the Frankston issue; glad I helped you see the light (mind you it took a while ).

Memo to Archie/Greg - Get your focus back to Moorabbin and talk to Kingston Council. If you don't, and you persevere with Frankston, you will be universally condemned in 5 years (or less).

[St Fidelius]

With respect...

You were originally in favour of the move to Frankston...

Not so, I was not happy with the Frankston move from day one, but was relieved it wasn't Casey.

I thought oh well, everything is organized, everyone's on board, tried to look at the positives and accepted it, thought we'd align with the Dolphins etc...etc...gateway to the peninsula, tried to convince myself that perhaps it was ok

I actually am quite happy with the Frankston relocation, truth be known

but where would the fun be in that

best regards
Andrew

Yeah righto align with the Dolphins after we have at least approached them twice and they said NO....

To be honest I really couldn't give a flying F*** where we are based as long as we don't have to share the facilities with any other club.

The training base should be ours exclusively ... like Moorabbin was.

Most AFL sides don't share their training ground with a VFL side or any other team.

[barks4eva]

With respect...

You were originally in favour of the move to Frankston...

Not so, I was not happy with the Frankston move from day one, but was relieved it wasn't Casey.

I thought oh well, everything is organized, everyone's on board, tried to look at the positives and accepted it, thought we'd align with the Dolphins etc...etc...gateway to the peninsula, tried to convince myself that perhaps it was ok

I actually am quite happy with the Frankston relocation, truth be known

but where would the fun be in that

best regards
Andrew

Yeah righto align with the Dolphins after we have at least approached them twice and they said NO....

You've got no class whatsoever posting PRIVATE messages on the main board, which is why I will NEVER communicate with you ever again via this way,.......... you know reply to messages you send.

Search out my first posts on the Frankston move and I was vigorously opposed.

I was happy that we were not going to Casey and saw Frankston as a better option, BUT..........

Unless you've been living under a rock or came down in the last shower, you'd be quite clear about the FACT, that my clearly stated preference is St.Kilda or Sandringham.

With the state government intervening on behalf of the bulldogs, a precedent has been set, that surely makes staying at Moorabbin a possible option also.


there might have been a couple of days when I thought and I do mean a couple of days, perhaps frankston is not so bad, trying hard to convince myself, everyone's on board, gateway to the peninsula, Frankston park etc...etc...

BUT that all proved to be a crock no sooner than a blink of an eye.

So my true position, which you seem a tad obsessed by is

Frankston, Belvedere Park and Casey all suck big time.

CRYSTAL?

[St Fidelius]

As I have already stated...

To be honest I really couldn't give a flying F*** where we are based as long as we don't have to share the facilities with any other club.

The training base should be ours exclusively ... like Moorabbin was.

Most AFL sides don't share their training ground with a VFL side or any other team.

For me Moorabbin is the better option, again I would rather not share our training ground with another club.

If it happens to be Belvedere Park in Seaford so be it.

To say that I have "no class" and coming from you is hilarious...

You really must have a very short memory