St kilda only club to have met with cousins

[st_Trav_ofWA]

the bloke is 30 but at the same time he is a freak fitness wise and his effort towards the footy is second to none

Look I'm hearing all the arguments.

But he's still a 30 yo 'fitness freak' who did three hammys last year. Three.

If this all pans out and he comes to St Kilda, I'll support him, but I'll also have a niggling worrying doubt also.

i agree
i have lots of concerns about him but i dunno maybe you gotta just roll the dice and see what happens ?

[WayneJudson42]

To take Cousins or not is a question that really depends on where you see St Kilda'slist and a flag.

IMO we arent at the Carlton/Richmond stage - they are coming.
Hawks/Cats probably past us...Cats definatley...
Dogs I reckon we can compete with.

Syd/Adelaide - sliders
Collingwood - best to come
Nth - top 8. NOT gonna win a flag with that list

So where are we at?

Hudgton, Hayes, King, Gardiner are the "olds" and apart from Max 3 are still sub 30?

The top middle 24-26 core is:

Roo, Kos, Clarkes, Dal, Monti, Gram, Fish, Gilbert, Sneids, Goddard, Ball

With good kids (not superstars IMO) of Armo, Eddy, Geary, Miles, McEvoy

Point is we arent at bottom out stage but arent at top flag chance stage either as we have some major holes (see defense post Max).

Does adding Cousins put us into "we are still flag material" land (that HAS to be top 2 for me) and if not why go for him.

Thoughts?

I posted this on the other thread...

I think we are in the hunt over the next 3 years given the age of our top 6 players. Kids will take a while to develop. Play em too young and we could very make the same mistake we made in 04 and 05 and ruin there bodies.

On that basis, you'd expect maximum output from the kids (who actually make it - no guarantees) in 3 to 4 years time if developed correctly.

By that stage, our top 6 may be too old for a tilt. And risk becoming the next Loewew, Burke and Harvey... peaking at the wrong time of the cycle.

Alternatively, you say... oh well, let's rebuild and play kids starting next year. Then you have wasted careers of your top 6 and the potential they bring to the club.

Bottom line: We HAVE to take advantage of the core we currently have, whilst injecting youth like we have done this year. Also remember that Schneids and Dempster are still only 24'sh.

If BC is fit and ready... I'd have no hesitation, coz he would add depth over the next couple of years, when we will be primed for a tilt.

[i_luv_nick_riewoldt]

Nope dont want him!! He would just infiltrate our young kids!

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Nope dont want him!! He would just infiltrate our young kids!

what young kids ?? i would inagine our current leaders would be more influential on our younger blokes then benny would

[joffaboy]

Nope dont want him!! He would just infiltrate our young kids!

[saintsRrising]

Surely he would go into the PSD -

Surely?

Well according to the media the AFL have stated that he can only go into the National Draft.

[Batnoe]

Surely he would go into the PSD -

Surely?

Well according to the media the AFL have stated that he can only go into the National Draft.

I think he has to nominate for the draft as he has had a year out, if he doesn't get picked up there he can get picked up in PSD

All players that arent selected in National draft go into PSD

However if there is a delisting after the National draft a player can then nominate for PSD without being in ND as they are already in the AFL system which Benny is not

However he can name his price in the ND- unlike a rookie so most clubs might pass on him

[saintsRrising]

To take Cousins or not is a question that really depends on where you see St Kilda'slist and a flag.

IMO we arent at the Carlton/Richmond stage - they are coming.
Hawks/Cats probably past us...Cats definatley...
Dogs I reckon we can compete with.

Syd/Adelaide - sliders
Collingwood - best to come
Nth - top 8. NOT gonna win a flag with that list

So where are we at?

Hudgton, Hayes, King, Gardiner are the "olds" and apart from Max 3 are still sub 30?

The top middle 24-26 core is:

Roo, Kos, Clarkes, Dal, Monti, Gram, Fish, Gilbert, Sneids, Goddard, Ball

With good kids (not superstars IMO) of Armo, Eddy, Geary, Miles, McEvoy

Point is we arent at bottom out stage but arent at top flag chance stage either as we have some major holes (see defense post Max).

Does adding Cousins put us into "we are still flag material" land (that HAS to be top 2 for me) and if not why go for him.

Thoughts?

I posted this on the other thread...

I think we are in the hunt over the next 3 years given the age of our top 6 players. Kids will take a while to develop. Play em too young and we could very make the same mistake we made in 04 and 05 and ruin there bodies.

On that basis, you'd expect maximum output from the kids (who actually make it - no guarantees) in 3 to 4 years time if developed correctly.

By that stage, our top 6 may be too old for a tilt. And risk becoming the next Loewew, Burke and Harvey... peaking at the wrong time of the cycle.

Alternatively, you say... oh well, let's rebuild and play kids starting next year. Then you have wasted careers of your top 6 and the potential they bring to the club.

Bottom line: We HAVE to take advantage of the core we currently have, whilst injecting youth like we have done this year. Also remember that Schneids and Dempster are still only 24'sh.

If BC is fit and ready... I'd have no hesitation, coz he would add depth over the next couple of years, when we will be primed for a tilt.

I have pasted alist of all the players who will be 25 or more at the Saints next year.

The list contains all of our "best" players as noted by the two posters above, with the exception on BJ (who is also thus just entering his best years).

So therefore our "best" players are in the main going to be at their peak over the next 3 or 4 years, with some coming out the other side.

Unfortunately the wave of players behind the above group does npot look to have any "stars" in it.


So therefore whether you believe our list is good enough to win a flag or not is one question. BUT it is pretty clear that with this list that our best, whatever it may be will be over the next 3 or 4 seasons. If we cannot snag one then, then we will most likely dip witha major rebuild required...all ata time of course when the two new clubs will have sucked upa large pool of the next-generational talent.


That is going to cause the club some serious thinking.....

* Do they try and boost the chances of us a winning a flag over the next three years, even if it perhaps hampers us in the 3 year period after that?


* Or do they stick 100% with youth and just hope that some will be stars??? but witha consequence of maybe just racking up 3-6 finishes?


With the players below at their age profile, if Cousins was available at a reasonable pick the Saints would probably take him. But was is reasonable. Pick 10 = no. Pick 26 would seem to costly...and pick 42 he may not be there..


With Kerr. Yes you would like to aquire him. But the cost!!! And without any early draft picks of our own, the cost would most likely mean losing players and so that may mean that we are just chasing our tails, giving up quality to gain quality.


I originally was not that keen on Kerr, or Cousins. But the more you look where our list is at...and when our best players would be at their best...the more it is tempting to actually try and improve the quality of the list over the next 3 seasons.
One or both players would compliment what we have very well.

Looking at what other players may be on the move one does not see the same quality or fit.

ie Warnook may be ok, but we do not really need him and his ability is unknown.


8 Hudghton, Max (V) 222 31yr 11mth 2 Sep 1976 191cm 93kg Northern Knights Defender
2 King, Steven 210 29yr 8mth 22 Nov 1978 201cm 104kg Murray Bushrangers Ruck
15 Gardiner, Michael S. 138 29yr 1mth 5 Jul 1979 199cm 103kg Claremont Ruck
7 Hayes, Lenny 187 28yr 7mth 14 Jan 1980 186cm 87kg Pennant Hills Midfield
44 Milne, Stephen 160 28yr 5mth 8 Mar 1980 178cm 82kg Dandenong Stingrays Forward
10 Baker, Steven 154 28yr 2mth 22 May 1980 181cm 85kg Geelong Falcons Midfield
29 Rix, Michael 29 27yr 7mth 8 Jan 1981 198cm 101kg Coburg Ruck
27 Blake, Jason 131 27yr 5mth 15 Mar 1981 191cm 88kg Beaumaris Defender
Midfield
17 Fiora, Aaron 139 27yr 4mth 19 Apr 1981 186cm 77kg Port Adelaide Midfield
25 Fisher, Sam 91 26yr 1mth 10 Jul 1982 192cm 92kg West Adelaide Defender
23 Koschitzke, Justin 114 25yr 11mth 20 Sep 1982 197cm 98kg Murray Bushrangers Forward
Ruck
12 Riewoldt, Nick 153 25yr 10mth 17 Oct 1982 196cm 95kg Southport Forward
28 Gardiner, Charlie 60 25yr 5mth 1 Mar 1983 190cm 90kg Geelong Falcons Forward
22 Birss, Shane 69 25yr 5mth 11 Mar 1983 183cm 80kg Gippsland Power Midfield
3 Clarke, Xavier 104 24yr 10mth 28 Sep 1983 182cm 78kg St Marys Midfield
11 Montagna, Leigh 93 24yr 9mth 2 Nov 1983 178cm 78kg Northern Knights Midfield
24 Dempster, Sean 71 24yr 7mth 20 Jan 1984 192cm 88kg Gippsland Power Defender
38 Jones, Clinton 21 24yr 6mth 2 Feb 1984 183cm 85kg South Fremantle Midfield
26 Dal Santo, Nick 139 24yr 5mth 22 Feb 1984 186cm 86kg Bendigo Pioneers Midfield
6 Fisher, Leigh 55 24yr 4mth 19 Apr 1984 188cm 92kg Mentone Grammar Defender
Midfield
1 Gram, Jason 72 24yr 3mth 27 Apr 1984 186cm 87kg Gippsland Power Defender
13 Schneider, Adam 112 24yr 3mth 12 May 1984 179cm 77kg Osborne Forward
14 Ball, Luke 122 24yr 2mth 25 May 1984 184cm 83kg Sandringham Dragons Midfield
31 Maguire, Matthew 99 24yr 2mth 30 May 1984 190cm 94kg Geelong Falcons Defender

[WayneJudson42]

Nope dont want him!! He would just infiltrate our young kids!

There are 2 types of role models in society...

The squeaky cleans like Harvey, and the ones who fell into trouble and have redeemed themselves.

BC would most likely be the latter. Don't see what all the fuss is to be honest.

[n1ck]

Id take him. No doubt in my mind.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Nope dont want him!! He would just infiltrate our young kids!

There are 2 types of role models in society...

The squeaky cleans like Harvey, and the ones who fell into trouble and have redeemed themselves.

BC would most likely be the latter. Don't see what all the fuss is to be honest.

i wouldnt want him to be a role model just get him to train and play let the guys like Roo Lenny Ball BJ Fisher to be the role modles /leaders some one like benny would need to be picked up purely on his tallent not for his personal atributes

[bigcarl]

this might be a lifeline for m. gardiner, who i still think has something to offer as a player.

he's a reformed, clean-living character nowadays, i hear, and what better mentor for cuz than his old mate from west coast days.

[saintsRrising]

However he can name his price in the ND- unlike a rookie so most clubs might pass on him

I would doubt that money would be much of a issue for most clubs unless they are already very tight on their salary cap.


I think the biggest issue will be clubs asking themselves can Cousins make a difference to them over the next two seasons and is their club a genuine chance for a flag in that 2 year window?

So Melbourne for example would not take him.

Judd you would think would prevent the Blues wanting him.

Tigers may be tempted, but they would be better with a younger player given their age profile.


The Pies? Are definately in the flaf hunt and lack midfield class.

The Dogs? He would help them, but the Dogs need talls more.

Essendon? They are rebuilding now. So Cousins = no. Kerr a maybe.

Swans? Need more than Cousins now. So a 2 year player would not make sense.

Crows? Benny ina small town may be asking for trouble.

PA? = no.

Cats? = no They have the luxury of trading off players like Priddis to get more draft picks to try and extend their time at at the top.



Logically the Saints and the Pies are the best fit for Cousins. With the Pies recent Didak issues they they may not be tempted.

Trading Didak also gives the Pies the ability to secure Kerr.

[saintsRrising]

this might be a lifeline for m. gardiner, who i still think has something to offer as a player.

he's a reformed, clean-living character nowadays, i hear, and what better mentor for cuz than his old mate from west coast days.

On Gardi......

King while fit now, has had many injuries in the past.

The Club would want to havea back up plan in addition to Blake and Kosi....with Ben in 2009 most likely being still too raw to play lots of football as your No 1 ruck.

This to me means that provided the medicos clear Gardi's calf that they will keep him as our "back up" ruckman in 2009 with Rix being let go.

[Otiman]

This to me means that provided the medicos clear Gardi's calf that they will keep him as our "back up" ruckman in 2009 with Rix being let go.

Some have hinted that Rix is contracted until the end of '09.

[n1ck]

Cats? = no They have the luxury of trading off players like Priddis to get more draft picks to try and extend their time at at the top.

Do you mean Prismall?? Priddis is a WCE player...

[saintsRrising]

This to me means that provided the medicos clear Gardi's calf that they will keep him as our "back up" ruckman in 2009 with Rix being let go.

Some have hinted that Rix is contracted until the end of '09.

In which case the club would have to pay him out...if they want his spot for a kid instead. Gwilt's last few games would give him another year, and so candidates to be delisted will be in short supply.

I think that Rix has clearly shown that at AFL level that he is not good enough. Gardi has had one shocking game, but the others were ok.

[evertonfc]

Personally, I doubt he'll nominate for the national draft. It's too much of a lottery for him - plus we should be a bit uncomfortable about using any pick before a third-rounder on him.

But in the PSD/4th round? You bet your bottom dollar I'd take him.

I want us to keep bringing through kids via the draft, but equally, I want to make sure that our PSD picks provide value to the team.

A year (almost two) away from the game will have given Cousins' shelf life to play until he's 33-34.

What he can add to the team - and he'll be cheap, don't worry about that - will substantial in my book.

The thing I like best about him is that he just refuses to lose. He changes games. He wins games. Hell - he cost us a finals berth in 2007 when he rearranged Jason Blake's rear end.

There will be some genuinely talented players with questionable private lives available in this year's trade period - Didak, Kerr, Cousins, Davis, Farmer for starters.

I'm not really at all interested in Davis or Farmer, but Cousins, Kerr and Didak are that bloody good that you can't ignore them.

If we could snare Didak or Kerr at trade week, and bring Cousins in via the PSD, then I'd be delighted - so long as we cut and burned our dead wood (of which there is heaps), added lots of kids via the draft and brought on four or five new rookies.

[Animal Enclosure]

If we can get Cousins for a 3rd rounder then lock it in. Take the best available kids 1st & 2nd round (in a good, deep draft) & a project player in the 4th round.

Cousins won't last to the PSD, as stated Collingwood, Hawthorn or Us will snap him up.

Cousins will give you 3 really good years & in a side like ours make us instantly better. He's in the Harvey mold fitness wise & is just a gun.

If we keep adding kids to the list as well (through both the ND & Rookie draft) we can still rejuvenate the list.

In two years time if we haven't snagged a flag with Cousins in the team then we can offload a few name players to GC17, get early picks in return & build up around a core group (Riewoldt, Ball, Gram, Gilbert, Armo, McEvoy, etc).

GC17 & then WS18 will be a very good chance to get some early picks if we are not challenging for a flag in 2-3 years.

[happy feet]

I don't know whether Cousins would be a good acquisition or not. You would certainly want a clean drug test before taking him on. But I do wonder if we would have issues with club sponsors. What do others think?

[saintspremiers]

the bloke is 30 but at the same time he is a freak fitness wise and his effort towards the footy is second to none

Look I'm hearing all the arguments.

But he's still a 30 yo 'fitness freak' who did three hammys last year. Three.

If this all pans out and he comes to St Kilda, I'll support him, but I'll also have a niggling worrying doubt also.

Good point re hammy's.....I spoke to someone the other day - a researcher from Monash Uni who has been involved with us and the Pies and he said the single biggest factor in the risk of doing a hammy is having done your hammy in the past!

[MCG-Unit]

Surely he would go into the PSD -

Surely?

Well according to the media the AFL have stated that he can only go into the National Draft.

I think he has to nominate for the draft as he has had a year out, if he doesn't get picked up there he can get picked up in PSD

All players that arent selected in National draft go into PSD

However if there is a delisting after the National draft a player can then nominate for PSD without being in ND as they are already in the AFL system which Benny is not

However he can name his price in the ND- unlike a rookie so most clubs might pass on him

Thanks Batnoe, that's sort of what I meant - he may not nominte for the Nat Draft....

[spert]

B.C. maybe an OK recruit under strict conditions and for a one year contract.

[stinger]

geez...that hutchy's a turd........

[saintsRrising]

he said the single biggest factor in the risk of doing a hammy is having done your hammy in the past!

That is what the St Kilda conditioning guru has said as well.


However Banger was having lots of hammies, and then with better conditioning management (and less self-imposed overtraing) has dramtically reduced their occurance.