FRANKSTON DEAL NOT DONE YET

[Solar]

hey guys get back to us when you actually know something, anything!!

[SENsei]

hey guys get back to us when you actually know something, anything!!

I'm pretty sure we are all in the same boat in that regard. Some of us know more than others, or think we do, others know less.

None of us are in a position to say anything categoric so this speculation will continue.

Long live speculation. Our forum thrives on it!

[Eastern]

hey guys get back to us when you actually know something, anything!!

FACT or MADE UP ?

If you go through this entire post there is almost an equal amount of BOTH !!

[St Fidelius]

hey guys get back to us when you actually know something, anything!!

There were some space limitations and siting issues at Football Park in Frankston which would have dramatically escalated the cost of the project. St Kilda has proposed to move the project to Belvedere Park in Seaford where there is more space, better drainage etc. The State Government has agreed to transfer its contribution to the new site, assured that the same community benefits will be delivered. It is now up to Council to agree to the move, solidify its funding contribution and sign the heads of agreement.

[casey scorp]

When was the most recent press release from the club regarding the move to wherever?

November 21 2007 was the big announcement of Frankston Park.

http://www.saints.com.au/Season2007/New ... wsId=53412

On June 19 2008 Leader reporter, Paul Amy, broke the story about the cost blowout and that the Saints were looking at Belvedere Park as an alternative. I don't believe that there were any media releases by the club at that time, but Archie responded to media enquiries when he was faced with the fact that the club's dilemma had leaked to the media.

http://www.leadernews.com.au/article/20 ... _news.html

On the Frankston Council website if you click the link to "Saints Latest News" you get a June 20 story saying that the Council hasn't agreed to Belvedere Park and that when further information becomes available the Council will put it on the website:

http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Newsroo ... index.aspx

So, not much movement for over 2 months, with the Council now looking at the Saints preference for Belvedere Park.

The State Government has agreed to transfer its contribution to the new site, assured that the same community benefits will be delivered.

The local MP, Alastair Harkness, lists the community benefits at:

http://www.aharkness.org/_dbase_upl/saints%20facts.pdf

These are consistent with a key site in a major activity centre - not a backwater like Belvedere Park. It's hard to see how the same community benefits can be delivered.

It is now up to Council to agree to the move, solidify its funding contribution and sign the heads of agreement.

This is an issue that the Council is currently addressing (with considerable difficulty).

[casey scorp]

The Frankston Independent has the whole story:

* St Kilda's preference for Belvedere Park
* Council being asked to increase its contribution from $2 million cash (+$1 million block of land) to $3.8 million cash
* Mayor's opposition to increasing Council's contribution
* local sporting clubs becoming concerned about spending more cash on St Kilda
* the issue emerging as an election issue
* Council to consider the matter on 1 September.

http://frankston.yourguide.com.au/news/ ... 54265.aspx

Hello, I hear some echos.

[casey scorp]

Looks like it is all spinning at Frankston Council.

There was a Special Council Meeting on 18 August, where there were only 3 items on the agenda - two in "open" and one (St Kilda FC potential development - Belvedere Park) considered In Camera.

http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/library ... 202008.pdf

There must have been no decision able to be reached on 18 August given the Independent News article which says the matter is to be considered at Council on 1 September:

http://frankston.yourguide.com.au/news/ ... 54265.aspx

What was previously going to be considered on 1 September was the question of whether to replace Cr Vicki McClelland who has resigned. However, it seems that this matter was rushed forward and considered at a Special Council Meeting last night (no indication on the Council website regarding Minutes of the meeting or any announcement).

http://frankston.yourguide.com.au/news/ ... 54264.aspx

It seems that there are many things happening at Frankston at the moment.

The Mayor, who will have a casting vote in the event of a tied vote, says that there should be no increased financial contribution by Council. If the Mayor is opposed to more funds, and he also has a casting vote (which convention generally suggests is used to maintain the status quo), it means that the Saints have to have 5 of the remaining 7 Councillors on side.

The article says that 2 other Councillors are upset that ratepayers' money is going to an AFL club instead of local sporting bodies.

There only needs to be 1 other Councillor go to water and the whole deal falls through.

You can only imagine the pressure being exerted on senior officers and Councillors to avoid red faces all round. There may well be some other sweeteners come into play. Just see what rolls out at the next State Election.

The Hollow Men would be in it up to their necks.

[GrumpyOne]

So no owned asset?

No wonder Archie is on the last plane to the Coast.

[SENsei]

So no owned asset?

No wonder Archie is on the last plane to the Coast.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but have I missed this? We will be paying for a building that we will not own?

[GrumpyOne]

So no owned asset?

No wonder Archie is on the last plane to the Coast.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but have I missed this? We will be paying for a building that we will not own?

I'm not sure, but it sure is a question that needs an answer before we commit to anything.

[SENsei]

Well yes. I thought we were getting an asset also, rather than paying for something to be built and paying a long term rental on it.

[Eastern]

We are up to 19 pages of "Bits n Pieces" discussion on this topic. I think it is time the club did something to bring the members up to date with where the whole thing is at. They may need a prompt to get them thinking along these lines so what have we all done to try to get up to date and accurate information?

I put the question in the "Ask Archie" section of the NEW Saints Central forum. Has anyone else done anything? It's pointless sitting back and whinging when all you have to do is ask !!

[SENsei]

"Asked Archie" myself yesterday Eastern about this topic.

[Eastern]

"Asked Archie" myself yesterday Eastern about this topic.

Good............


On the other forum? !!

[GrumpyOne]

We are up to 19 pages of "Bits n Pieces" discussion on this topic. I think it is time the club did something to bring the members up to date with where the whole thing is at. They may need a prompt to get them thinking along these lines so what have we all done to try to get up to date and accurate information?

I put the question in the "Ask Archie" section of the NEW Saints Central forum. Has anyone else done anything? It's pointless sitting back and whinging when all you have to do is ask !!

Point taken East, but why bother Archie if one of the brains trust on this forum already has the answer? Surely he is busy trying to find a place on the Coast to live.

Apart from the fact that we would get a quicker answer on here, there is no guarantee that Archie will be around in a day or two to give us an answer.

[SENsei]

"Asked Archie" myself yesterday Eastern about this topic.

Good............


On the other forum? !!

Yep.

[barks4eva]

Belvedere Park, you've got to be FAIR DINKUM kidding,


Collingwood have the Lexus centre, located a stone's throw away from the MCG and OUR club's board is proposing Belvedere Park as a suitable location.





FAIR DINKUM, this is an absolute disgrace.



St.Kilda or Sandringham are the options we should be exploring OR do as the bulldogs did and get state government intervention to resolve the matter and stay at Moorabbin.


Come to St.Kilda we have a training base at Belevedere Park, yeah that's real likely to entice players to come to our club or for that matter to stay at our club, NOT.


This is an absolute disaster if this goes ahead and the sooner the NEW board come to their senses about this nonsense the better.


Has anyone even bothered to canvass the idea of basing this club back in st.Kilda with the state government?

I bet it's never even been contemplated, they just want to make a decision, any decision even if it's an appalling one.

This will hurt OUR club greatly and those in power are too shortsighted to see the ramifications of the abysmal mess that will be created in pursuing this nonsense.

The signs are there already, if anyone on the board bothers to read them.

Belvedere park, perleeeeeeeeeeze, what a fair dinkum crock.

[casey scorp]

So no owned asset?

No wonder Archie is on the last plane to the Coast.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but have I missed this? We will be paying for a building that we will not own?

The asset (the great incentive for the Frankston deal in the first place, which got it over the line against Casey Fields) was to be a quarter acre block in Plowman Place.

The block came into consideration in the first place because the integrated development of a training/admin facility could not fit onto Frankston Park. The Council, in its desire to get the Saints, offered the land while ignoring a host of other issues which would eventually come back to torpedo the deal.

The block of land was nominally worth $1 million, and would be given to St Kilda FC by the Council. On this block was to be built an admin centre for $2-$3 million (of the total cash available of $9.25 million), resulting in an asset worth $3-$4 million owned by St Kilda FC.

It was the attraction of getting a $3-$4 million asset that distorted the objectivity of the St KFC Board.

Once the grandstand burned down the original rationale for the Council providing the block of land went up in smoke, although the many other hurdles relating to the development still remained (which have of course ultimately resulted in an the club looking for an alternative).

For the Belvedere Park development proposal, St KFC is asking Council to keep the land at Plowman Place but increase its cash offer from $2 million to $3.8 million.

So, at Belvedere Park, no asset is involved in the deal.

The Saints have well and truly stuffed this up.

Memo to Archie/Greg - reopen negotiations with Kingston Council!

[bobmurray]

The past and present board and administration have both been shown to be out of their depth on this issue.

Maybe after the Butters mob made a mess of it the Footy First mob went jumping at shadows to make it look like they were proactive and knew what they were doing,but alas, it's all turning to shite .The new training facilities will end up being a couple of Atco huts in a local park.......

Amateur hour after hour where this issue is concerned....

2010...all will be revealed...

[ausfatcat]

Yes of course because they should've know the cost of concrete was going to increase so much.

[bobmurray]

Yes of course because they should've know the cost of concrete was going to increase so much.

So the whole training facility mess is due to concrete......

Was it ready mixed.....too bad anyway..it's gone off.......just like these training facility deals....

[casey scorp]

Yes of course because they should've know the cost of concrete was going to increase so much.

Blind Freddy could see what was going to happen. There were so many hurdles and pitfalls for this project (most of which were forseeable).

I agree that increasing materials costs weren't forseeable, but the other issues put price pressure on the project at Frankston Park anyway. Don't hang your hat on material costs for the size of this cost blow-out in this case.

[Otiman]

Yes of course because they should've know the cost of concrete was going to increase so much.

Steel, actually.

Increased 65% in 6 months. It's not just this project that has been put back because of it.

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx? ... ntID=91254

Australian Steel Institute State manager John Brazier said One-Steel’s merchant bar steel, commonly used in major structures, had jumped 65 per cent since February. Structural steel had risen more than 57 per cent in the same period.

[casey scorp]

One of the reasons Archie's gone to Ireland is to 'seal the deal' for a 'state of the art' training facility in Dublin.

or maybe the Island of St Kilda-

Nah....cold, windswept and nowhere near public transport...all the reasons Casey was no good

It might get cold at Casey Fields in winter, but so does the rest of Melbourne (if you want warmth, suggst moving the club to the Gold Coast)

Yes, probably more windy than other areas which are developed, but it will be surrounded by development in 10 years.

Public transport - a shortcoming for those who don't drive. I doubt there are too many players and staff who don't drive.

But, most importantly, it would have been well under construction by now at Casey Fields!!!

There are those who say they don't care where the facility is located, so long as the players get the best facilities. Then there are those who support Frankston.

Except that there would be a chorus of disapproval from those who are opposed to Casey Fields, I would suggest that the Saints make a call to Casey to see whether the MFC deal is fully and irrevocably locked away (there doesn't seem to have been any official announcement, and if MFC is as quick to make redevelopment/relocation announcements as St KFC is without having all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed, then perhaps it isn't as finalised as I thought).

[GrumpyOne]

Except that there would be a chorus of disapproval from those who are opposed to Casey Fields, I would suggest that the Saints make a call to Casey to see whether the MFC deal is fully and irrevocably locked away (there doesn't seem to have been any official announcement, and if MFC is as quick to make redevelopment/relocation announcements as St KFC is without having all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed, then perhaps it isn't as finalised as I thought).

I would suspect that Archie, alias Mr Diplomacy, has blown that option out of the water, like he did to the City of Kingston.