FRANKSTON DEAL NOT DONE YET

[casey scorp]

caseyscorp's agenda:

Dec 2007

Besides Casey Fields might look like it's in a rural area now, but in 10 years it will be in a developed urban area.

Remember this is an arrangement for 50 years - not for 5 years.

Dec 2007

I think it would be the best outcome for sure.

Dec 2007

The club should be making a decision for the long term and, in my view, the benefits of Casey Fields outweigh those of Frankston. Those benefits include access to a very large and expanding population base (which will identify with a Casey location but not a Frankston location) and access to a top quality ground which will be maintained by Casey Council to the necessary standard and which is the size of the MCG.

Jan 2008

The Saints aren't playing games at Frankston - it's a training & admin complex. There is heaps of land for additional parking at Casey Fields, and I think you'd find that Casey Council would have built the extra 80 odd spaces which would have doubled up on Scorpions match days as extra parking.

Jun 2008

Just maybe, a more considered and deliverable strategy at Casey Fields may have been the go after all.

Jun 2008

Belvedere Park - Melways Map 100 A4

• not too close to the heart of Frankston, where the players and fans can go for a coffee
• not in a location right in a vibrant activity centre
• not in sight of the beach, where the players could walk to for recovery
• no romance of a seaside location
• no Frankston VFL team that we'll share our home with
• those drawings of our new facility looked fantastic – but we couldn’t afford them.

Reality starts to bite, and hard.

Jun 2008

If its going to be Belvedere Park, then the people who said Casey Fields is in the boonies might need to steel themselves for a shock.

Jun 2008

I still think that the Saints made a mistake choosing a poorly thought out and researched option in Frankston.

Jun 2008 (big month)

Casey would have given heaps to get the Saints to the best non-AFL facility going round.

Jul 2008

St KFC could have always:

* accepted what was on offer from Casey Council
* asked Casey Council for more
* gone back to Casey Council when Frankston Park fell over.

12th August 2008

Casey made a better offer to St Kilda than to MFC. Fact.

Okay I've had enough searching now. This was just a cross section. It is clear your agenda is that we should've gone to Casey and the Casey deal is superior to any other deal we will do. That is fact and you are on record with those comments.

I don't know why you want to deny it. But that is your choice.

I don't mind your updates, when it is all said and done. But your "I told you so" tone just grates on me.

The only time you update it seems it is with negativity about the whole thing. Did you post updates on the announcements of Frankston etc?

Just admit you have an agenda biase towards Casey and that nothing else will measure up.

Well that was a very informative bunch of posts - what is shows is that from the June post all of my comments about St Kilda and Casey Fields were in the past tense - ie there was no longer an opportunity at Casey Fields for St Kilda.

Now here's a post you conveniently missed (from 14 December last year). I think it makes clear:

1 there were going to be problems at Frankston
2 I never hid any bias towards Casey Fields.

I advocated a Casey Fields relocation as long as it remained an option. When it didn't, I no longer advocated it. However, the problems at Frankston still got worse and worse.

Blind Freddy could see them coming (even in December last year), but it seems that those with blinkers either couldn't or didn't want to!

You are correct - I am biased. I've never hidden that.

I happen to have a view that Casey Fields would have been a better long term option for St Kilda FC than either Linton Street or Frankston.

I accepted that others had a view that redeveloping at Linton Street was better than moving, but I considered that Casey Fields was a better option than Linton Street and often posted accordingly.

I also thought it likely that a relocation was on the cards, despite all of the club, Council and State Government publicity about redevelopment at Linton Street.

No doubt some thought my views were heretical.

I happen to think that the Frankston deal has a few holes in it despite all of the club, Council and State Government publicity - there are all sorts of hurdles to jump. While some may think me heretical again, I think you will find that the hurdles will pop up regularly.

There are some real issues to be overcome.

Say I'm biased and you'd be right, but that alone doesn't justify putting your head in the sand.

[plugger66]

So you have a go at someone's "English comprehension"? Where pray tell did I actually mention Casey Fields in my post today, as you have quoted above.

My mistake - it was plugger66 who first raised Casey tonight. The point being that I didn't raise it.

And your agenda is there for all to see, why attempt to hide it?

Not sure what you think my agenda is (unless you think that I'm still advocating the Saints going to Casey Fields). I explained it earlier.

In case you missed it - my view is redevelop at Moorabbin.

Stick with it mate and forget the scum that ridicule you...

You offer nothing but logic to this site besides posters crapola ...


I personally did not like the move to casey, but there seemed little choice with the Frankston deal and since that has become a farce with rising costs it is near on impossible for that to happen.

The offer was too good to refuse seeing that we have washed our hands with Moorabbin, and once that's done, there is no turning back...

I liked the story about us training on a scheduled training day and the Moorabbin Council taking the tracker out to mow the lawn...

This to me is a situation that has gone far over the top and is being petty ...

Get the F*** out of that sh1tful council and find some place that a council is willing to cooperate

The Frankston council is at least willing to cooperate and that is at least a start.

Yes and in breaking news...... a Ferrari has just pulled into the driveway across my home...

What a news flash

FM

This coming from a guy that was just about crying when Rix was named on an extended bench and it was pointed out that he would probably just be an emergency but they had to name 7 on the bench. You nearly took your bat and ball and went home that week.

[GrumpyOne]

FWIW IMHO Casey Scorps has been right on the money all the way through.

FACT: Casey Council would have crawled naked through broken glass with their testicles dragging to get the Saints at Cranny. We were firmly in the driving seat and would have got anything we asked for if we had negotiated hard enough.

FACT: We have not only burnt our bridges at Kingston, we have also napalmed the debris too. No chance of anything ever happening there.

FACT: The Frankston Oval option was much hyped but completely unresearched as to cost, available amenities, heritage issues etc.. Even burning down the grandstand didn't help.

FACT. Trevor Barker Oval will never be a viable option as there is insufficient available land to build a decent facility for us.

FACT: The new Frankston option is in the backblocks of Seaford backing on to a freeway with even less transport than Casey Fields. You might be able to gain freehold and build a training facility there, but each player will need a native tracker equipped with a Navman to find it.

Opinion: Melbourne will thrive and prosper at Casey in our absence.

Opinion: The whole redevelopment has been a c**k-up of monumental proportions, with poor decision following even poorer decision every step of the way.

We have dropped the ball big time..... lay off Casey Scorps for having the intelligence to point it out.

[saintspremiers]

FWIW IMHO Casey Scorps has been right on the money all the way through.

FACT: Casey Council would have crawled naked through broken glass with their testicles dragging to get the Saints at Cranny. We were firmly in the driving seat and would have got anything we asked for if we had negotiated hard enough.

FACT: We have not only burnt our bridges at Kingston, we have also napalmed the debris too. No chance of anything ever happening there.

FACT: The Frankston Oval option was much hyped but completely unresearched as to cost, available amenities, heritage issues etc.. Even burning down the grandstand didn't help.

FACT. Trevor Barker Oval will never be a viable option as there is insufficient available land to build a decent facility for us.

FACT: The new Frankston option is in the backblocks of Seaford backing on to a freeway with even less transport than Casey Fields. You might be able to gain freehold and build a training facility there, but each player will need a native tracker equipped with a Navman to find it.

Opinion: Melbourne will thrive and prosper at Casey in our absence.

Opinion: The whole redevelopment has been a c**k-up of monumental proportions, with poor decision following even poorer decision every step of the way.

We have dropped the ball big time..... lay off Casey Scorps for having the intelligence to point it out.

So what do you really think Grumpy?

I tend to agree....although I'd be interested in if St Kilda could use some of Sandy Yacht Club's land to develop an indoor gym/pool facility....might be a bit messy, but would be the only option nearby to the Trevor Barker Oval (it's only a few hundred metres walk away).

Casey Scorp has an agenda, but then again, is he the only one in that boat???

[SENsei]

Casey Scorp has an agenda, but then again, is he the only one in that boat???

He just tried to deny it that's all. It's the glee in his posts that irks me because it seems he is willing the deal to fall over so he can gloat. Not a good feature in someone.

But I happen to agree with much of what he says, and even what GO says. I think the whole running of St Kilda has been a c**k up over the last few years.

But I don't really care where the training base is. I mean how many of us to training? Minority I am sure.

It's where we play that is important.

Bygones.

[casey scorp]

He just tried to deny it that's all. It's the glee in his posts that irks me because it seems he is willing the deal to fall over so he can gloat. Not a good feature in someone.

You really either don't understand or don't want to.

Look 5 posts up - it shows in December I acknowledged a bias. It's bever been hidden. I have never denied it.

And, yes, I think the Frankston deal is absolute crap. I have another preference clearly displayed in posts above - eat humble pie and redevelop at Moorabbin.

For Pete's sake we already control the ground. Costs can be more accurately estimated at Moorabbin - there are no unknowns hiding beneath the surface.

We've already got $7.25 million ($6 million AFL/State Govt, and $1.25 million from St KFC) for Frankston.

Surely Kingston Council would prefer to have the Saints than not have them (Frankston Council estimates a $40 million benefit to the local economy in having the Saints development). Re-opening negotiations with Kingston is the go.

And, SENsaintsational, just so you haven't forgotten:

* I've never denied any bias
* I think Frankston is absolute crap - there are so many hurdles (and I've pointed them out since last year - this si nothing new)
* I want the redevelopment to succeed at Moorabbin.

[SENsei]

He just tried to deny it that's all. It's the glee in his posts that irks me because it seems he is willing the deal to fall over so he can gloat. Not a good feature in someone.

You really either don't understand or don't want to.

Look 5 posts up - it shows in December I acknowledged a bias. It's bever been hidden. I have never denied it.

And, yes, I think the Frankston deal is absolute crap. I have another preference clearly displayed in posts above - eat humble pie and redevelop at Moorabbin.

For Pete's sake we already control the ground. Costs can be more accurately estimated at Moorabbin - there are no unknowns hiding beneath the surface.

We've already got $7.25 million ($6 million AFL/State Govt, and $1.25 million from St KFC) for Frankston.

Surely Kingston Council would prefer to have the Saints than not have them (Frankston Council estimates a $40 million benefit to the local economy in having the Saints development). Re-opening negotiations with Kingston is the go.

And, SENsaintsational, just so you haven't forgotten:

* I've never denied any bias
* I think Frankston is absolute crap - there are so many hurdles (and I've pointed them out since last year - this si nothing new)
* I want the redevelopment to succeed at Moorabbin.

Thanks for getting the user name correct.

Yesterday you wrote to me "I'm not sure what agenda you think I have". Well obviously I was right, as you have proved it last December 2007, as you pointed out.

You comment that you want the best outcome for St Kilda. But then you say the best outcome has passed us by at Casey.

Could be. Might not be also. My feeling, from your comments, is that you have closed your mind off to other options because you know in your mind that Casey was the best and only option and we were stupid to knock it back.

In summary, I think you only give us one side of the story that most benefits your point of view. I also don't believe you genuinely believe in the Moorabbin redevelopment idea. You are just dead against Frankston.

I have no problem with that, by the way. I just felt the need to point out the obvious to others. I also felt you were basking in the glory of seemingly being proved right. That irritates me.

For all you know, the Frankston deal could come up trumps and everything will be hunky dory whilst the MFC deal falls flat in the Casey swampland!

There are people smarter than us who are paid a fortune to make the right calls. Let's hope they do.

[casey scorp]

Thanks for getting the user name correct.

No worries. At least it gives you one less issue to beat on about.

Yesterday you wrote to me "I'm not sure what agenda you think I have". Well obviously I was right, as you have proved it last December 2007, as you pointed out.

You know things move on. It definitely was my agenda in December for St Kilda to move to Casey Fields. The Frankston deal was crap and I knew that it would fall over, so I continued to advocate for Casey Fields (which I considered the best option available at the time).

Since MFC got Casey Fields earlier this year it hasn’t been an option for St KFC. So I haven’t advocated it since.

But I have continued to criticise the Frankston deal, and will continue to do so. It will fall over (unless a good fairy turns up with a whole lot more money).

You comment that you want the best outcome for St Kilda. But then you say the best outcome has passed us by at Casey.

I do, and it has.

After Casey Fields became unavailable to St KFC, I wanted the best available option remaining.

It’s pretty simple really.

You can’t have what is unavailable. So you need to get the next best outcome. A bit like GC17 and MFC chasing a CEO. Wanted Cook and Fox respectively. But they’re not available. So those clubs need to look elsewhere.

Like St Kilda does in respect to its training/admin centre. Casey Fields (in my opinion) was the best option available. Then it became unavailable. So St KFC has to get the next best available outcome. Again (in my opinion), redevelopment at Moorabbin is the best option currently available.

Could be. Might not be also. My feeling, from your comments, is that you have closed your mind off to other options because you know in your mind that Casey was the best and only option and we were stupid to knock it back.

What do you mean closed my mind – St KFC missed out on Casey Fields. But I haven’t closed my mind off to other options. I’m now advocating what I consider to be the next best option.

In summary, I think you only give us one side of the story that most benefits your point of view.

I provide what I think is reasonably balanced.

There were many advantages to Casey Fields, and I pointed them out.

There are a massive host of disadvantages with Frankston Park and Belvedere Park, and I’ve pointed them out. While you say that’s only one side of the story, I’ll remind you that when I was initially pointing out the disadvantages of Frankston Park I was howled done. Check the posts. When the deal was first announced I thought that the asset issue was a winner but, with a few hours of research, the disadvantages of the deal were obvious. Why the club and its consultants couldn’t see that amazes me.

There are relative advantages with Moorabbin, and I’ve pointed them out.

I have no problem with that, by the way. I just felt the need to point out the obvious to others. I also felt you were basking in the glory of seemingly being proved right. That irritates me.

I’m not surprised that it irritates you that I was right.

However, what I’m currently seeking is that St KFC moves forward. It doesn’t seem to be doing so at the moment. That irritates me.

And if my continued raising of the need to get on with a development reminds you of the fact that I was right in regard to Frankston, and that continues to irritate you, then I guess you’ll have to be irritated.

For all you know, the Frankston deal could come up trumps and everything will be hunky dory whilst the MFC deal falls flat in the Casey swampland! .

Small chance, but always possible.

There are people smarter than us who are paid a fortune to make the right calls. Let's hope they do.

They should have made them in November last year!

If these people had done a few more hours research, they might have worked it out then. And it would have saved the club money, time and embarrassment.

[GrumpyOne]

If these people had done a few more hours research, they might have worked it out then. And it would have saved the club money, time and embarrassment.

So very true.

[SENsei]

I’m not surprised that it irritates you that I was right.

Touche.

You may very well end up being right. You could also end up being very wrong.

All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

[casey scorp]

You may very well end up being right. You could also end up being very wrong.

And I've said I'll apologise if I'm wrong:

when this is all done and we have the best training base across all clubs in the AFL at Frankston and the club is not in massive debt.......will you apologise to the rest of us on the forum for your ongoing bias and one eyed continual bashing of the club on every step of the way after they said no to Casey.....

As requested, I will gladly apologise if:

• we have the best training base in the AFL
• it is at Frankston
• we’re not in massive debt.

But I won’t have to!

Get over it.......the word is that this is almost done and we will be in the new training building mid 2010 and on budget in Frankston....

In 2 years:

• to finalise site selection (with a proper due diligence)
• to plan the facility
• to get permits
• to tender
• to build
• on budget (the current $10.25 million assuming Frankston Council converts its land contribution to cash).

You can’t be serious.

I will also apologise if that scenario occurs.

[JeffDunne]

While I don't agree with everything being posted in this thread I certainly enjoy reading it (agendas or not)

[casey scorp]

A key supporter of the St Kilda project on Frankston Council, Cr Vicki McClelland, has resigned:

http://www.frankstonleader.com.au/artic ... _news.html

There are now 8 Frankston Councillors.

Whether to fill the vacancy is a matter for the Council to decide, as there is less than 6 months to the November Council elections. There is a Council meeting on Monday 1 September. Presumably, the Council will consider whether or not to make a decision at that meeting. Who knows how the changed numbers will impact on any decision the Council might have to make in the near future.

Another interesting Council matter is the forthcoming November elections. While elections make sitting Councillors nervous of controversy, they also have a "caretaker period" during which important decisions can't be made by the existing Council before the election (including awarding contracts for greater than $100,000).

The caretaker period starts on 28 October - a little over 2 months away. It runs through to the end of November. There will then be a new Council in place.

The $2 million Council contribution for the Frankston project has already been allocated (ie the $3 million less the nominal $1 million for the Plowman Place block of land), so it shouldn't be affected.

However, if the Council is considering putting in more cash (for example replacing its land contribution with a cash contribution), then that decision will need to be made before 28 October or it can't be made until after the elections.

Few newly elected Councils will make a major decision in December/January, so if a decision isn't made by the end of October 2008 we might be waiting until February 2009.

But presumably all those "people smarter than us who are paid a fortune to make the right calls" who SENsaintsational previously referred to have all that covered off.

[SENsei]

But presumably all those "people smarter than us who are paid a fortune to make the right calls" who SENsaintsational previously referred to have all that covered off.

You would hope so.

Although, if our 'key supporter' has upped and moved north presumably without telling anyone, then I don't think she was that 'key' to begin with.

Don't you just love a bit of spice in local politics?

I think Cr Vicky would be right at home in Casey....same sort of weather patterns as Hervey Bay, correct?

[bobmurray]

There must be people out there doubled over with laughter ,continuously ,
if they are following StKilda's attempts to have a training base....

I hope they can restart talks with Kingston and redevelop Moorabbin and include the pokies in the redevelopment...Sounds simple but maybe they have zero friends at the council and all their eggs are now in the Frankston basket......

Or is it now a basket case.....

[Eastern]

A key supporter of the St Kilda project on Frankston Council, Cr Vicki McClelland, has resigned:

http://www.frankstonleader.com.au/artic ... _news.html

There are now 8 Frankston Councillors.

Yeah, but we have a secret weapon that we are going to vote on to the Frankston Council

VOTE 1 SNOOPYGIRL !!

[snoopygirl]

[casey scorp]

Yeah, but we have a secret weapon that we are going to vote on to the Frankston Council

VOTE 1 SNOOPYGIRL !!

Now there's a thought.....get in there and sort them out Snoopygirl. Maybe you would be able to get a ticket up of pro-St KFC candidates.

[SENsei]

So assuming caseyscorp is correct and the Frankston Oval deal is in a whole lot of manure.

And if Belvedere Park is not enviable either.

What about another 15mins down the road to Mornington? Beleura Hill for the all the players who want to live nearby. Nice fishing village with a very nice place for them to moor their yachts. Mornington Football Ground is a pretty good ground. Simon Goosey might be available.

And also, Sunnyside Beach for those 'Active Guys' who want an all over tan on their waxed bodies.

Worth a thought.

[saintbrat]

Yeah, but we have a secret weapon that we are going to vote on to the Frankston Council

VOTE 1 SNOOPYGIRL !!

Now there's a thought.....get in there and sort them out Snoopygirl. Maybe you would be able to get a ticket up of pro-St KFC candidates.

is MT Eliza in the council area? is there a Mayoral candiditate needing something to fill his time?

[spert]

When was the most recent press release from the club regarding the move to wherever?

[Mr Magic]

One of the reasons Archie's gone to Ireland is to 'seal the deal' for a 'state of the art' training facility in Dublin.

[saintbrat]

One of the reasons Archie's gone to Ireland is to 'seal the deal' for a 'state of the art' training facility in Dublin.

or maybe the Island of St Kilda-

[saint66au]

One of the reasons Archie's gone to Ireland is to 'seal the deal' for a 'state of the art' training facility in Dublin.

or maybe the Island of St Kilda-

Nah....cold, windswept and nowhere near public transport...all the reasons Casey was no good

[SENsei]

One of the reasons Archie's gone to Ireland is to 'seal the deal' for a 'state of the art' training facility in Dublin.

or maybe the Island of St Kilda-

Nah....cold, windswept and nowhere near public transport...all the reasons Casey was no good

Gold!