I have joined the club.

[maverick]

That is true JB, but what you quote with Bomber is more relevant to GT than RL, because Bomber had some runs (ie finals) on the board, RL does not.

Are you talking about RL as a coach, or as a player? RL was an assistant for the Swans in their finals campaigns.

In any case, Thompson and Clarkson are classic examples of why we should, and will (thank gawd), persist with RL.

Talking about senior coaching nothing else.

[SENsei]

This thread is close to being locked

Contains far too much intelligent discussion, an unacceptable level of respect for others opinions and not enough abuse.

Stop it..all of you..STOP IT!!!!

Fair dinkum Mods around here have no clue!!

I was actually commenting to myself what a pleasure it was having and reading a good debate without any flaming.

I often to that. Talk to myself. Only way to get truly intelligent conversation.

[JeffDunne]

If Lyon cant do it, he will go, but a sudden sacking halfway through a contract will be irresponsible and totally wrong.

I'm not sure if I agree with that but it would need to be for a good reason.

However I don't see there's a reason now.

Personally I'd like the club to extend him for another year so him being on the last year of a contract isn't an issue. Sit him down, offer him an extension of a season with an easy out for the club, but give him the option to renegotiate in 12 months if we are going to keep him.

[WayneJudson42]

I've actually gone the other way Firey, IMO he'll get better if we give him time.

TBH, don't think we've got much choice but to persist.

In hindsight our short term fate was probably determined when we prematurely pulled the trigger on the last coach. I hate to say it but RodgerFox was spot on with his assessment of the impact at the time.

If we make the same mistake again I fear we'll lose more than just a coach. This time I reckon some of our senior players might just say enough is enough.

I'll go one step further...

You lose momentum, and condemn us to at least 3 years of pain.

You lose players.

You lose sponsors.

You Lose YOUR club.

Good or bad, we have to see it out next year. Off field stability is something we have lacked in the past. We now have the opp to build on this long term.

Successful club start from the the admin down.

[joffaboy]

Cats played finals in 2000

Did they?

Fair enough. Another three years before they did again though.

So does this mean in your opinion anyone who doesn't make the finals in their first year should be sacked? Almost every coach at the Saints would be in trouble in that case

Lyon won a Preseason in his second season. Bomber didn't win a thing until his seventh.

[The Fireman]

This thread is close to being locked

Contains far too much intelligent discussion, an unacceptable level of respect for others opinions and not enough abuse.

Stop it..all of you..STOP IT!!!!

Goose......

Back on topic

I hear everyone and understand the "patience" approach buy my only prob with that is I can't see any positives in his coaching style so I would be waiting for more of the same.
We change coaches and boards like our socks and believe we have made some shocking decisions in that area....not this time.
To be honest my rant maybe influenced by our recent poor form also a tad knee jerk and realise that in reality we are pretty much stuck with Ross but I guess I felt the need to rage against the machine.

[The Fireman]

Personally I'd like the club to extend him for another year so him being on the last year of a contract isn't an issue. Sit him down, offer him an extension of a season with an easy out for the club, but give him the option to renegotiate in 12 months if we are going to keep him.

Any contract with Ross should "ULTRA" flexible.

[WayneJudson42]

I have only one comment about that joffaboy in relation to Bomber Thompson. He took his early medicine and drafted youngsters into the club and developed them over those years. Hence why they are now All Australians.

I haven't seen that thought process evident from Lyon thus far.

M Clarke, M Gardiner, C Gardiner, Dempster, Schneider, King.....hardly building us for the future.

If I saw that process happening, I'd cut him some slack. But he went the quick fix option first up thinking we were a show.

Topping up thinking isn't the actions of a man who joined the club thinking the list was in decline. That's the thinking of a man who thought he was only a few steps away from the big one.

He made a miscalculation. And I believe the club did also when they appointed him to 'take us to the next level".

What level is that exactly?

Apples with apples please. Thompson was there since 2000. Over this period, both teams due to low ladder possies selected youth.

As it turns out, they have developed theirs better than us. If you argue that they bit the bullet and went for young kids, then ok. But what did we do in the same time?

Abandoning the youth policy wasn't just Lyon's doing. It began with the previous regime.

Also, taking over a team that has had 3 top 8 finishes as opposed to a team that has had 3 bottom 4 finishes is an entirely different matter.

GT had the luxury of top draft picks and priority picks. RL has not. Given the circumstances, he's made the best of a bad situation IMO. Aprt from the rucks, most players are still young enough. It was either that or gambling on low draft pick leftovers. He did the right thing in drafting McEvoy, didn't he?

The other alternative, was to trade top players for top draft picks...

Maybe, he got sold a dummy in regards to our list?

Our first priority is to ensure that we are able to get our best 22 on the park as much as possible, which has improved greatly.

The problem now is that our best 22 aren't up to expectations.

[JeffDunne]

Wayne, slagging GT doesn't make Lyon a better coach.

I wish you and others would come to realise that.

[WayneJudson42]

Wayne, slagging GT doesn't make Lyon a better coach.

I wish you and others would come to realise that.

I'm not slagging GT. I just pointed out that both coaches have taken over at various times. Where did I state that RL is a better coach?

Different ladder positions, and different options re drafting. So let's compare apples with apples. If we look at it from a comparison of Saints v Cats from 2000 onwards.

These are facts. Kndly tell me where I'm wrong.

[Saints43]

So does this mean in your opinion anyone who doesn't make the finals in their first year should be sacked? Almost every coach at the Saints would be in trouble in that case

Lyon won a Preseason in his second season. Bomber didn't win a thing until his seventh.

I think that's the problem here. When a coach gets the arse it's usually because the team is languishing at the bottom of the ladder. The incoming coach is not expected to make finals in his first season.

That's was the case for RL - as it wasn't for TW.

We are a special case... unfortunately.

[WayneJudson42]

So does this mean in your opinion anyone who doesn't make the finals in their first year should be sacked? Almost every coach at the Saints would be in trouble in that case

Lyon won a Preseason in his second season. Bomber didn't win a thing until his seventh.

I think that's the problem here. When a coach gets the arse it's usually because the team is languishing at the bottom of the ladder. The incoming coach is not expected to make finals in his first season.

That's was the case for RL - as it wasn't for TW.

We are a special case... unfortunately.

Shouldn't that be "basket case"?

[maverick]

Cats played finals in 2000

Did they?

Fair enough. Another three years before they did again though.

So does this mean in your opinion anyone who doesn't make the finals in their first year should be sacked? Almost every coach at the Saints would be in trouble in that case

Lyon won a Preseason in his second season. Bomber didn't win a thing until his seventh.

No doesn't mean that but Bomber took over an ageing list and built his own, and as you say rather luckily with F/S.

I am with you, I couldn't care less who is coaching so long as we win games or have a plan to win games in the future.

I feel we are caught in between at present and Lyon for mine is struggling to work out which way to go, we are in for years of pain irrespective if we can't sort our on field direction quickly.

I personally despise our style of footy, but that would change if we won more games, the last 3 weeks have been very ordinary, hence why I see no improvement.

[JeffDunne]

These are facts. Kndly tell me where I'm wrong.

Abandoning the youth policy wasn't just Lyon's doing. It began with the previous regime.

That is utter nonsense.

[degruch]

I feel we are caught in between at present and Lyon for mine is struggling to work out which way to go...

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Mav...and who could blame him. Thrown into the job with the expectation of wringing instant success from a list bristling with superstars, but nothing's really happened. As is evident on this forum, no-one is really sure 100% where the problem lies, although everyone seems to have an opinion. Only time will tell...imagine what throwing a new coach into the mix would do right now!

[WayneJudson42]

These are facts. Kndly tell me where I'm wrong.

Abandoning the youth policy wasn't just Lyon's doing. It began with the previous regime.

That is utter nonsense.

Dude, you've lost me...

[The Fireman]

Did anyone else notice some very poor coaching by Ross during the Collingwood game?

[degruch]

Did anyone else notice some very poor coaching by Ross during the Collingwood game?

No, other than the fact that we hadn't replaced Fiora with Birss and put a leading forward in ahead of Geary. However, it's fair to say I hadn't noticed as I was too busy gasping at how piss weak our on-field performance was.

[St. Luke]

It'd be nothing short of a miracle for us to beat Freo. If we do, it'll be by the narrowest of margins and a crappy, scrappy match at that Refuse to tip us after our efforts with the Eagles and the Pies

[Saints43]

Did anyone else notice some very poor coaching by Ross during the Collingwood game?

There were so many things wrong with that game...

So many players had down nights that I'm not sure that any coach can get the match ups right. At least RL kept moving them - trying things, I suppose.

Having said that I think RL is more responsible for skill errors than some others do. The number of times midfielders pick up the ball and run - which is what we all want - and there is nothing in front to kick to. They end up "pulling" the kick to get the least worst result. It looks terrible. It looks talentless but they are actually trying not to definitely turn the ball over.

The whole thing doesn't look good. I can understand how some see the great quarters against the Bulldogs, North, Hawthorn as the aberations.

We still need to make sure - as close as you can be sure - that we have the right man before we start worrying about stability.

Mark Williams is pushing the PA board to get into contract talks and talking up a move to Melbourne. It's probably only to get things moving over there but we should be talking to his management now.

[gosaints]

When we win the players are all stars, when we lose the coach has no idea. When are the players going to be held accountable? Why is it always the coach?
I get that the coach should be sending these players out with a fire lit under there arse, but come on these guys are supposed to be the ultimate professionals and they are paid very, very well. We are sending off our greatest ever player and they dish up that crap.

I sat there watching the game last saturday night and I like many couldn't work out why we didn't have another leading forward option but what stood out to me more was most of our players being second to the ball, no second efforts, tackles not sticking, players who are generally good by foot missing targets by miles. That is not coaching issues, that is work ethic issues. Players prepared to wait for someone else to do the hard work. It's been that way for years, even when GT was coach and to be honest i'm sick to death of it.

I don't think Ross Lyon is the problem. I think the problem is in a playing group that is supremely talented by mentally fragile.

[userbetheknee]

Bring Back GT

[Quixote]

I have joined the club of Lyon bashers.

Fireman, simple question -

If we make a Preliminary Final this year, will you still be a Lyon Basher?

[The Fireman]

I have joined the club of Lyon bashers.

Fireman, simple question -

If we make a Preliminary Final this year, will you still be a Lyon Basher?

Simple answer. no,if we did make the finals and progressed then Ross would be a successful coach but we won't so , simply put I am.

[Spinner]

Joined that club 2 weeks ago........Too many lesser talents in the senior team is destroying the list and the club.

Its the big separation between our guns......and our bottom tier (within the 22)