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BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
I'm cheating a little, as I've seen Brisbane live a bit too often thinks to my partner's evil ways (Lions fan). Which has on the upside afforded me the chance to watch the way they deal with 2 big forwards so much better than us. .................................
The biggest difference is that when you watch them set up, they try not to assume that Brown is best at the end of a 10k run, or that Bradshaw has Brown's tank. Other teams react to them... or pay the price.
Thanks for the excellent and detailed summary Bam. Reminds me just how much I don't see watching games on TV. Makes sense not to run those two guys into the ground doesn't it? Apart from Brown and Bradshaw, do guys like Hooper flood and then run like buggery to get forward when they attack or do they zone up a la Hawthorn so the forwards are around midfield when they force a turnover and gain possession?
Kosi is not playing well enough, correct, but you can hardly blame him.
The ball is coming into our forward 50 so slowly, i could run down from the grandstand onto the ground and block some space.
Get some reasonable ball and some effective inside and then see how he goes.
Geez, how obvious is it? We are one tall leading forward down. It simply can't be made up by superior planning, etc. And taking Brisbane as a bell weather is bizarre - they are below us on the ladder!
Find a tall leading forward who can mark and kick straight and our problems are solved. Or, take a ticket in Powerball and chance your luck. The latter is probably more likely than the former.
perfectionist wrote:Geez, how obvious is it? We are one tall leading forward down. It simply can't be made up by superior planning, etc. And taking Brisbane as a bell weather is bizarre - they are below us on the ladder!
Find a tall leading forward who can mark and kick straight and our problems are solved. Or, take a ticket in Powerball and chance your luck. The latter is probably more likely than the former.
Get your head out of your bum!
You are correct. One alternative is use one of our guys from defence. So we either need a fwd or a few defenders to release others to play fwd or mid.
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
perfectionist wrote:Geez, how obvious is it? We are one tall leading forward down. It simply can't be made up by superior planning, etc. And taking Brisbane as a bell weather is bizarre - they are below us on the ladder!
Find a tall leading forward who can mark and kick straight and our problems are solved. Or, take a ticket in Powerball and chance your luck. The latter is probably more likely than the former.
Get your head out of your bum!
You are correct. One alternative is use one of our guys from defence. So we either need a fwd or a few defenders to release others to play fwd or mid.
Put Gwilt up forward, he did well against Port up there, and OK against the Pies for a few minutes at least.
Its not as if he's playing well in defence.
He's a decent size, reasonable mark and good kick for goal.
perfectionist wrote:Geez, how obvious is it? We are one tall leading forward down. It simply can't be made up by superior planning, etc. And taking Brisbane as a bell weather is bizarre - they are below us on the ladder!
Find a tall leading forward who can mark and kick straight and our problems are solved. Or, take a ticket in Powerball and chance your luck. The latter is probably more likely than the former.
Get your head out of your bum!
You are correct. One alternative is use one of our guys from defence. So we either need a fwd or a few defenders to release others to play fwd or mid.
Put Gwilt up forward, he did well against Port up there, and OK against the Pies for a few minutes at least.
Its not as if he's playing well in defence.
He's a decent size, reasonable mark and good kick for goal.
You won't get any arguments from me. Can't be worse than what we're currently doing.
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
plugger66 wrote:Kosi has missed about 4 games in 2 years. That is enough footy to see if he is good enough and certainly enough for him to be footy fit. Lets face it he is an average footballer that can on a few occasions play an above average game. We would be mad not to at least look at a trade for him depending what is offerred.
Injuries can not be used as excuse anymore firstly because he has played enough footy and secondly he may get injured again and the he is worth nothing.
It really comes down to what we can get for him.....and I fear that other clubs will also see lack of potential in Kosi, and we'll get about pick 30ish for him.
If we got a first rounder for him I think Ross would be mad not to seriously consider it.
IF Kosi is playing injured, like Max, and with Dal playing sick, it's starting to look again like that finals game vs Melbourne.....GT's last as coach if you remember! Heaps of players that day were underdone and it was particularly sad to see....
maverick wrote:Kosi is not playing well enough, correct, but you can hardly blame him.
The ball is coming into our forward 50 so slowly, i could run down from the grandstand onto the ground and block some space.
Get some reasonable ball and some effective inside and then see how he goes.
partially true.
What about the fact Kosi could barely move and Ross probably couldn't play him up the ground for that reason?
maverick wrote:Kosi is not playing well enough, correct, but you can hardly blame him.
The ball is coming into our forward 50 so slowly, i could run down from the grandstand onto the ground and block some space.
Get some reasonable ball and some effective inside and then see how he goes.
partially true.
What about the fact Kosi could barely move and Ross probably couldn't play him up the ground for that reason?
Players need a bit of verstatility...
Ok, then... not being a fitness guru, let me ask this question...
He's a massive unit, so would it take time to get power into your legs?
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
perfectionist wrote:Geez, how obvious is it? We are one tall leading forward down. It simply can't be made up by superior planning, etc. And taking Brisbane as a bell weather is bizarre - they are below us on the ladder!
Find a tall leading forward who can mark and kick straight and our problems are solved. Or, take a ticket in Powerball and chance your luck. The latter is probably more likely than the former.
Get your head out of your bum!
not using Brisbane as a bellweather, just comparing strategies and having a discussion, if that's ok with you.
We're one tall leading forward down. What, add another tall to our already slow, one dimensional, lacking pressure forward line??? Do you really think this will make all the difference?
maverick wrote:Kosi is not playing well enough, correct, but you can hardly blame him.
The ball is coming into our forward 50 so slowly, i could run down from the grandstand onto the ground and block some space.
Get some reasonable ball and some effective inside and then see how he goes.
another excuse. Jaysus Maverick, why? Excuse after excuse for Koschitzke and they all have a common theme. He's not responsible for his continued poor performances, someone or something else is. We have people from the coach down telling him how awesome a player he's about to be and what a great contribution he'll make once the 'structure' is right. F*** me, where's his responsibility for his performances?
Kosi has had long enough to deliver on his potential. For whatever reason, be it playing out of position, fitness, and bad luck with injury.
His value is plummeting at the moment and don't forget he is one of the highest paid players at the club. If a suitable trade can be done the club should seriously entertain the idea.
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
I'm cheating a little, as I've seen Brisbane live a bit too often thinks to my partner's evil ways (Lions fan). Which has on the upside afforded me the chance to watch the way they deal with 2 big forwards so much better than us. .................................
The biggest difference is that when you watch them set up, they try not to assume that Brown is best at the end of a 10k run, or that Bradshaw has Brown's tank. Other teams react to them... or pay the price.
Thanks for the excellent and detailed summary Bam. Reminds me just how much I don't see watching games on TV. Makes sense not to run those two guys into the ground doesn't it? Apart from Brown and Bradshaw, do guys like Hooper flood and then run like buggery to get forward when they attack or do they zone up a la Hawthorn so the forwards are around midfield when they force a turnover and gain possession?
Short answer yes, other than Brown and Bradshaw, everyone else tends to see some time on the defensive side of 50... longer answer is that Brisbane tries to avoid getting into a position where Hooper is covering a man, or even getting a possession on defensive side of 50. Low scoring game involving Brisbane spending a lot of time in defense means Hooper's TOG probably drops.
It gets way off topic, but Milne v Hooper is a discussion I've had with my partner's dad a number of times (and ironically, we've changed sides during that time. I now believe he'll be able to make a midfield transition at some point - something Milne won't ever do... the outlaw dad believed Hooper would be a star and has gone cold, wishes Hooper would produce more goals). Hooper doesn't end up with the defensive side possessions Milne does because Matthews avoids the scenario.
To try and drag it back... I'm curious what Matthews would do with Kosi. He's gotten pretty good results out of Clark who has similar weaknesses (leading, endurance) and isn't as good in the strengths (probably a slightly better wrestler, mainly because he gets better position). Kosi isn't a leading forward and isn't going to be... I still look at those strengths though and think that he could be made to look really good, and in doing so actually be a credit to the guy coaching him (which is how I view Clark)... not saying I blame his performances on Ross (beyond being in the Saints forward line, which I think is a great way to look bad if your name isn't Nick Rewoldt), but add a leading forward and employ Kosi as a utility, and Kosi will win more fans while actually having less responsibility.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
maverick wrote:Kosi is not playing well enough, correct, but you can hardly blame him.
The ball is coming into our forward 50 so slowly, i could run down from the grandstand onto the ground and block some space.
Get some reasonable ball and some effective inside and then see how he goes.
another excuse. Jaysus Maverick, why? Excuse after excuse for Koschitzke and they all have a common theme. He's not responsible for his continued poor performances, someone or something else is. We have people from the coach down telling him how awesome a player he's about to be and what a great contribution he'll make once the 'structure' is right. F*** me, where's his responsibility for his performances?
No offence mate, but based in Freo, I am not sure how many games you have seen, but from what I see at the games, none of our forwards get much of a chance, Roo just makes his own luck, because he is a champion.
Why if Kosi isn't the best player in the team, is he a dud?
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
To try and drag it back... I'm curious what Matthews would do with Kosi. He's gotten pretty good results out of Clark who has similar weaknesses (leading, endurance) and isn't as good in the strengths (probably a slightly better wrestler, mainly because he gets better position). Kosi isn't a leading forward and isn't going to be... I still look at those strengths though and think that he could be made to look really good, and in doing so actually be a credit to the guy coaching him (which is how I view Clark)... not saying I blame his performances on Ross (beyond being in the Saints forward line, which I think is a great way to look bad if your name isn't Nick Rewoldt), but add a leading forward and employ Kosi as a utility, and Kosi will win more fans while actually having less responsibility.
thanks again for the summation of the way Brisbane use Brown and Bradshaw. Being an armchair observer is pretty limited isn't it because you just don't see the scope of the tactics that are going on all over the ground.
Agree with you that Milney is not going to turn into a mid. Wish he could, but his bread and butter is a crumbing forward and I reckon he earns his spot, even though I know he has many detractors on here.
What would Matthews do with Kosi? I reckon for a start Matthews would put a high powered rocket up the whole team, not just Kosi. I'm not convinced though that he would make Kosi a better player. He's had plenty of opportunities already in that utility role and he hasn't really grasped it by the scruff of the neck. My view is that Kosi is simply not as good as we thought he would be. He gave us all a warm glow when he had his purple patch and in his first year, but apart from that he's really done bugger all. Talent is one thing, using it is another and I reckon Kosi doesn't actually have what it takes to be a consistent top line player.
Yes he doesn't have the same 'football smarts' that Roo has.
(I saw him lead towards the Southern Stand Flank last week when the ball was coming down the members side & the player who had it would have had to kick the ball about 60m across his body with a filth player on his hammer to get it to him!)
Yes he is a man without a position (he still contributes the most as a 'floater')
I don't buy the Kosi has poor trade value line. I'm sure coaches like Mark Williams would be happy to try to get him to his potential.
Having said that it is much harder to find a good (if underperforming) big man than a midfielder.
That's why I would definitely look at shopping Montagna if not Dal Santo.
Yes he doesn't have the same 'football smarts' that Roo has.
(I saw him lead towards the Southern Stand Flank last week when the ball was coming down the members side & the player who had it would have had to kick the ball about 60m across his body with a filth player on his hammer to get it to him!)
Yes he is a man without a position (he still contributes the most as a 'floater')
I don't buy the Kosi has poor trade value line. I'm sure coaches like Mark Williams would be happy to try to get him to his potential.
Having said that it is much harder to find a good (if underperforming) big man than a midfielder.
That's why I would definitely look at shopping Montagna if not Dal Santo.
No offence mate, but based in Freo, I am not sure how many games you have seen, but from what I see at the games, none of our forwards get much of a chance, Roo just makes his own luck, because he is a champion.
Why if Kosi isn't the best player in the team, is he a dud?
no offence taken Maverick. You're right, watching on TV, you don't get anywhere near the full picture of what's going on around the ground.
Agree also that our forward set-up remains one dimensional and that bombing long to a double team situation is a dog of a way to give forwards opportunities. But wasn't Kosi supposed to be part of the solution for that? Lyon said at the end of last year that Kosi was the future at FF.
I can see your and other poster's points about poor delivery and structure, but even so, Kosi in my view under performs and that's about the only thing he has consistently done. To me, many Sainters look for any reason possible to explain his under performance to avoid putting the responsibility at his feet.
No offence mate, but based in Freo, I am not sure how many games you have seen, but from what I see at the games, none of our forwards get much of a chance, Roo just makes his own luck, because he is a champion.
Why if Kosi isn't the best player in the team, is he a dud?
no offence taken Maverick. You're right, watching on TV, you don't get anywhere near the full picture of what's going on around the ground.
Agree also that our forward set-up remains one dimensional and that bombing long to a double team situation is a dog of a way to give forwards opportunities. But wasn't Kosi supposed to be part of the solution for that? Lyon said at the end of last year that Kosi was the future at FF.
I can see your and other poster's points about poor delivery and structure, but even so, Kosi in my view under performs and that's about the only thing he has consistently done. To me, many Sainters look for any reason possible to explain his under performance to avoid putting the responsibility at his feet.
Fair enough, as I said before he is not playing well enough, which I mean to be underperforming, but I still think if we had a half decent structure he would become the player we want him to be.
Confidence to him is more important than any other player we have I reckon.
Not excuses for performance to date, his ouput is not good enough, but big blokes struggle to repay the faith people have in them, Salmon, Josh Fraser, Ottens at Richmond etc all maligned to various degrees. Maybe its a curse to be a highly rated big man?
maverick wrote:[
Fair enough, as I said before he is not playing well enough, which I mean to be underperforming, but I still think if we had a half decent structure he would become the player we want him to be.
Confidence to him is more important than any other player we have I reckon.
Not excuses for performance to date, his ouput is not good enough, but big blokes struggle to repay the faith people have in them, Salmon, Josh Fraser, Ottens at Richmond etc all maligned to various degrees. Maybe its a curse to be a highly rated big man?
True to say that Ottens has only really blossomed late in his career. Being a part of the Geelong machine helps as well.
I hope you're right about Kosi. I hope he does repay what I see as the "blind faith" that many people have in him. If you have that faith, then fair enough. I'll be really happy to be proved completely wrong if he turns it around.
