Whinging supporters

[Mr Magic]

I think this is his post he is talking about?

OK seriously, this whinging about umpiring decisions has gone on long enough - last week aside, we are one of the luckiest when it comes to umpiring decisions... Most weeks we are on the positive side of the ledger and if they are not... who the hell cares!?!?!?!

Last week we did not lose the game because of umpiring.... I am sick of blaming umpires - I normally ignore it because it SEEMS to happen every week but seriously, it is SUCH a cop-out! I mean, what are we? Collingwood supporters?!?!?!?!

Patrick Smith may be a moron, an idiot, a d**khead and a moron; he may not know eff all about St Kilda or football in general but - and even though this was the most black and white statement I've ever heard, it really is hammer - nail -head - "West Coast are playing terrible football and St Kilda have a chance to play finals. If St Kilda can't beat West Coast, that has nothing to do with umpiring decisions."

Thanks Patrick, that's really insightful there. With such meaningful analysis, you should totally replace the "cheif" football writer: Mike Sheahan! He has a point but let us not forget that he is an idiot....

Where was I? Oh yeah. Get over it! The reason we really lost is because we went in soft and complacent and when the going got tough, we folded like a cheap wooden table you buy from Target.

GT has not left a curse on this club unlike everyone thinks. If anything, ever since Rl became head honcho, umpiring has been much much morew in our favour - and even if it hasn't..... conspiricy theorists much?

[degruch]

Geez...highly strung much?

Well, if someone can't bare another poster presenting an eductated backed-up point of view, I don't think debating on a forum is a past-time for them.

Not sure what's in it for someone to jump up and down and say we are or we aren't subject to negative bias by the AFL, and whether we played bad or not last week is beside the point, what is alarming to note is the lopsided free kick tally - it's crooked, affected by the hometown crowd, and not the work of a professional umpiring team. The umpires in question should be looked at very carefully by the AFL, as they are clearly not able to do their job properly.

My personal point of view...the AFL are showing their bias by not doing anything about it, but then, no-one is asking them to do anything about it. Why? Perhaps RL or the St Kilda FC doesn't believe it's warranted...but reading between the lines at RL's press conference post-match, he thinks there is. Coaches, players and club officials have been gagged - if they say anything, they are fined, suspended, or subject to retribution (whispers). This is, by definition, corruption...don't ya think?

If ya don't agree...great...don't agree...or have a spit and leave the forum.

[asiu]

or have a spit and leave the forum.

that was the reaction that spun me

cant see the reason

its just our points of view we are batting backwards and forwards


and if thats 'the post' that mm pasted .........imo its a great read , and i agree with most of it



i'm confused

[rodgerfox]

the only time they have ever experienced popularity is when they give a hometown decision. That cheer from a home team just makes life worth living for them,it's always going to continue.

So true.

So very, very true.

[Solar]

the only time they have ever experienced popularity is when they give a hometown decision. That cheer from a home team just makes life worth living for them,it's always going to continue.

So true.

So very, very true.

totally agree but and it's a big but

29 to 10 as people have said thats an average of 1 1/2 frees to the saints each quarter compared to 7 per quarter over the whole game for the eagles. I just can't work it out. We were not that bad or undisciplined.

plugger66

I love how you start threads calling saints fans whingers when all they do is ask important questions regarding the state of football in the past 5 years.

You still after how many days answered the questions that we have asked, is it because we are right?

Not bad for a loser hey!



btw we will win on sunday, and most likely in one thread there will be someone saying "can you believe that free kick".... get over it and ignore it if you can't handle a different point of view......

[plugger66]

the only time they have ever experienced popularity is when they give a hometown decision. That cheer from a home team just makes life worth living for them,it's always going to continue.

So true.

So very, very true.

totally agree but and it's a big but

29 to 10 as people have said thats an average of 1 1/2 frees to the saints each quarter compared to 7 per quarter over the whole game for the eagles. I just can't work it out. We were not that bad or undisciplined.

plugger66

I love how you start threads calling saints fans whingers when all they do is ask important questions regarding the state of football in the past 5 years.

You still after how many days answered the questions that we have asked, is it because we are right?

Not bad for a loser hey!



btw we will win on sunday, and most likely in one thread there will be someone saying "can you believe that free kick".... get over it and ignore it if you can't handle a different point of view......

I still dont think you get it. I am not worried about the people saying the umpiring wasnt good its the people who say the AFL do it delibrately or the umpires bet against us or the commentators favour the other side. As for ignoring it I am allowed an opininon just like you. If I think they are wrong I will say it. You couldnt ignore me as you promised because you think I was wrong I will not ignore you if I think you are wrong.

As for your questions I didnt see in your post that you were actually asking me the questions.

[sainterjo]

get over it and ignore it if you can't handle a different point of view......

The irony...just shattered my keyboard.

[stinger]

Mike Sheehan and Plugger66.

Sheehan’s top 50 deliberately controversial to further enhance his reputation as Melbourne’s top footy journo. All his columns are knee-jerk reactions and ‘voice-of-the-people’ rants. Useless.

Plugger66. AFL apologist and probably non-Sainter stooge.


Why do we even bother to give either the time of day. Reaction is what they want, they should be ignored.

i am seriously considering taking your advice ....

[sainterjo]

And there's the other one.

[stinger]

And there's the other one.

other wot.....

[sainterjo]

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[degruch]

BWAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! That's funny...if you removed all threads and banned all posters that fell foul of those rules, there'd be nothing on here but a header and a blank page!

[Solar]

the only time they have ever experienced popularity is when they give a hometown decision. That cheer from a home team just makes life worth living for them,it's always going to continue.

So true.

So very, very true.

totally agree but and it's a big but

29 to 10 as people have said thats an average of 1 1/2 frees to the saints each quarter compared to 7 per quarter over the whole game for the eagles. I just can't work it out. We were not that bad or undisciplined.

plugger66

I love how you start threads calling saints fans whingers when all they do is ask important questions regarding the state of football in the past 5 years.

You still after how many days answered the questions that we have asked, is it because we are right?

Not bad for a loser hey!



btw we will win on sunday, and most likely in one thread there will be someone saying "can you believe that free kick".... get over it and ignore it if you can't handle a different point of view......

I still dont think you get it. I am not worried about the people saying the umpiring wasnt good its the people who say the AFL do it delibrately or the umpires bet against us or the commentators favour the other side. As for ignoring it I am allowed an opininon just like you. If I think they are wrong I will say it. You couldnt ignore me as you promised because you think I was wrong I will not ignore you if I think you are wrong.

As for your questions I didnt see in your post that you were actually asking me the questions.

It was made clear it was asked to all those who are apologists for everything AFL and call us who question losers. Unless I am much mistaken that includes you.

I tried to ignore you but you post ad nasium the same cut and paste I find it hard. I did get three days but seriously your very good at being irratating.

And no it's not just those situations you stated in which you have a problem, it is whenever someone has anything negative to say about the umpires, Tribunal, AFL as a whole.....

You've been such a big defender of all these things I find it funny that you cannot answer the hard pressing questions. Usually its a cut and paste one liner....

anyway we all know your a knob, most likely a troll, you have got my number, yes you know how to irratate me.

[plugger66]

the only time they have ever experienced popularity is when they give a hometown decision. That cheer from a home team just makes life worth living for them,it's always going to continue.

So true.

So very, very true.

totally agree but and it's a big but

29 to 10 as people have said thats an average of 1 1/2 frees to the saints each quarter compared to 7 per quarter over the whole game for the eagles. I just can't work it out. We were not that bad or undisciplined.

plugger66

I love how you start threads calling saints fans whingers when all they do is ask important questions regarding the state of football in the past 5 years.

You still after how many days answered the questions that we have asked, is it because we are right?

Not bad for a loser hey!



btw we will win on sunday, and most likely in one thread there will be someone saying "can you believe that free kick".... get over it and ignore it if you can't handle a different point of view......

I still dont think you get it. I am not worried about the people saying the umpiring wasnt good its the people who say the AFL do it delibrately or the umpires bet against us or the commentators favour the other side. As for ignoring it I am allowed an opininon just like you. If I think they are wrong I will say it. You couldnt ignore me as you promised because you think I was wrong I will not ignore you if I think you are wrong.

As for your questions I didnt see in your post that you were actually asking me the questions.

It was made clear it was asked to all those who are apologists for everything AFL and call us who question losers. Unless I am much mistaken that includes you.

I tried to ignore you but you post ad nasium the same cut and paste I find it hard. I did get three days but seriously your very good at being irratating.

And no it's not just those situations you stated in which you have a problem, it is whenever someone has anything negative to say about the umpires, Tribunal, AFL as a whole.....

You've been such a big defender of all these things I find it funny that you cannot answer the hard pressing questions. Usually its a cut and paste one liner....

anyway we all know your a knob, most likely a troll, you have got my number, yes you know how to irratate me.

You really seem like such a nice person but just doesnt have a high IQ or for that matter any IQ. Such a waste a space.

[Solar]

the only time they have ever experienced popularity is when they give a hometown decision. That cheer from a home team just makes life worth living for them,it's always going to continue.

So true.

So very, very true.

totally agree but and it's a big but

29 to 10 as people have said thats an average of 1 1/2 frees to the saints each quarter compared to 7 per quarter over the whole game for the eagles. I just can't work it out. We were not that bad or undisciplined.

plugger66

I love how you start threads calling saints fans whingers when all they do is ask important questions regarding the state of football in the past 5 years.

You still after how many days answered the questions that we have asked, is it because we are right?

Not bad for a loser hey!



btw we will win on sunday, and most likely in one thread there will be someone saying "can you believe that free kick".... get over it and ignore it if you can't handle a different point of view......

I still dont think you get it. I am not worried about the people saying the umpiring wasnt good its the people who say the AFL do it delibrately or the umpires bet against us or the commentators favour the other side. As for ignoring it I am allowed an opininon just like you. If I think they are wrong I will say it. You couldnt ignore me as you promised because you think I was wrong I will not ignore you if I think you are wrong.

As for your questions I didnt see in your post that you were actually asking me the questions.

It was made clear it was asked to all those who are apologists for everything AFL and call us who question losers. Unless I am much mistaken that includes you.

I tried to ignore you but you post ad nasium the same cut and paste I find it hard. I did get three days but seriously your very good at being irratating.

And no it's not just those situations you stated in which you have a problem, it is whenever someone has anything negative to say about the umpires, Tribunal, AFL as a whole.....

You've been such a big defender of all these things I find it funny that you cannot answer the hard pressing questions. Usually its a cut and paste one liner....

anyway we all know your a knob, most likely a troll, you have got my number, yes you know how to irratate me.

You really seem like such a nice person but just doesnt have a high IQ or for that matter any IQ. Such a waste a space.

dumb people with lower IQ's throw insults without any back up argument or reason....

hmmmmm pot kettle black mate

[plugger66]

Very good answer. Did the people in the hospital help you with that.

[bobmurray]

This thread has stalled,it's now like a game of tennis,what were posters meant to be discussing,i've forgotten....

[plugger66]

This thread has stalled,it's now like a game of tennis,what were posters meant to be discussing,i've forgotten....

I think we are doing a fine job afterall we are all whinging.

[joffaboy]

plugger. I think you have proven beyond a doubt (in your mind anyway) that you are a much better and more worthy supporter of the Saints than the rest of us because you accept every decision of the AFl and every incident on the football field.

Meek and non questioning acceptance of the status quo and authority is a hallmark of the apparachik.

Congratulations comrade plugger. Stalin would have been impressed with your unquestioning loyalty.

Too bad you cant round up all us dissidents and ship us off to a gulag hey.

Oh well just be content that you are such a better supporter than the rest of us.

Funny thing is that after numerous of us "whingers" and "losers" have asked for explanations on specific incidents non have been forthcoming from the AFL acolyts.

Why is this?

Mabye there are no answers. Mabye it is just easier to try and quieten everybody by labelling them hey?

But isn't it interesting that we have the likes of JeffDunne RodgerFox Stinger teflon myself solar and others all on the same page? The vast majority of posters who usually cant agree on hardly anything all in virtual agreement.

Perhaps we have all been duped and you are the only one to know the truth.

HMMMMMMMMM

[plugger66]

plugger. I think you have proven beyond a doubt (in your mind anyway) that you are a much better and more worthy supporter of the Saints than the rest of us because you accept every decision of the AFl and every incident on the football field.

Meek and non questioning acceptance of the status quo and authority is a hallmark of the apparachik.

Congratulations comrade plugger. Stalin would have been impressed with your unquestioning loyalty.

Too bad you cant round up all us dissidents and ship us off to a gulag hey.

Oh well just be content that you are such a better supporter than the rest of us.

Funny thing is that after numerous of us "whingers" and "losers" have asked for explanations on specific incidents non have been forthcoming from the AFL acolyts.

Why is this?

Mabye there are no answers. Mabye it is just easier to try and quieten everybody by labelling them hey?

But isn't it interesting that we have the likes of JeffDunne RodgerFox Stinger teflon myself solar and others all on the same page? The vast majority of posters who usually cant agree on hardly anything all in virtual agreement.

Perhaps we have all been duped and you are the only one to know the truth.

HMMMMMMMMM

The one thing I have bever said and will never say is I am a better supporter than you or anyone else. For all I know you make give the club thousands of dollars a year so I will never comment on who is a better supporter. All I have ever said is that IMO the do not delibrately try to make us lose by having umpires cheat or commentators favour the other side.

And just because people who never normally agree on something agree about this doesnt make it right after all on a Saints wb site my stance is basically on a hinding to nothing.

I will leave you with this though how come in the last 5 years we have had 3 results that decided games in our favour due to goal umpiring decisions if the AFL want to give to us. Against the Roos when one of our shots clearly hit the post and we one by less than a kick. Same against the Swans when Rix hit the post and the Aussie point yet no results have gone against us in that time due to goal umpiring.

[The Fireman]

The umpiring is crap atm, last night an ump gave a throwing the ball free, the ump was unsighted and guessed that the infringement occurred.
Replay showed a handball.
That crap happens way too often.
Less whistle blowing and they will do a whole lot better.

[joffaboy]

The one thing I have bever said and will never say is I am a better supporter than you or anyone else. For all I know you make give the club thousands of dollars a year so I will never comment on who is a better supporter. All I have ever said is that IMO the do not delibrately try to make us lose by having umpires cheat or commentators favour the other side.

Whispers in the sky. It is a documented fact. Why do you deny this? Head said he had cheated to Tony Jones and an independant witness corroborated it. The AFl initially tried to sweep it under the carpet and then held a mock investigation (using the old adage - never hold an investigation unless you know the result beforehand) and wheeled out the corrupt umpire to blatantly lie to the media.

And just because people who never normally agree on something agree about this doesnt make it right after all on a Saints wb site my stance is basically on a hinding to nothing.

Barry Hall gets off on a striking charge. Not wrong? Essendon and Collingwood play every Anzac Day and is a cash cow? Are we wrong on that?
The draw is geared to make money (Blockbusters Showdowns local Derbies every single year twice a year) is this incorrect?

St.Kilda play to the whistle and get two competition points taken off them which eventually coats them a top four position. The club did nothing wrong. Sydney cheats to get a draw and the AFL not only does not give the points to North but changes the rules to protect Sydney. Is this incorrect.

Adam Goodes constantly elbows and hits players and does not get penalised. Barry Hall king hits a player and gets a discount.

Steven Baker gets seven weeks for something taking to the tribunal on a blatant lie, no video of the incident, no witnesses, and gets seven week. Is this incorrect?

I will leave you with this though how come in the last 5 years we have had 3 results that decided games in our favour due to goal umpiring decisions if the AFL want to give to us. Against the Roos when one of our shots clearly hit the post and we one by less than a kick. Same against the Swans when Rix hit the post and the Aussie point yet no results have gone against us in that time due to goal umpiring.

5 goals from free kicks in the Whispers in the sky game, we lose by one point. 5 goals from free kicks last week we lose by three goals.

Just as valid as your points above. Against the Roos the point happened in the first quarter where we kicked ten goals. We were on fire, if it was a point who knows how many more goals we may have kicked that quarter.

the Aussie Jones point. there was 3 minutes to go. We kicked a goal by Schwarze and then had the ball for the remaining two minutes. Harvey held the ball up while X and another streamed into the fifty unmanned. We could have easily scored anothert goal but were in front and iced the clock.

Rixs goal was the first goal of the game.

All of these were mistakes - just like the puched through goal against the Bulldogs and Mclaren pointing the wrong way for a free kick allowing the Bulldogs to get another goal for free.

Do you believe that this litany of inconsistancy and blatent tampering by the AFL is all just co-incidence?

I believe in incompetency over conspirarcy anytime but Whispers in the Sky was blatant cheating. So was the Barry Hall result in 05. Taking points off us where we did nothing wrong and allowing Sydney to cheat and do nothing was incredible arrogance and blatant bias by the AFL. The Baker decision was just criminal.

the 29-10 free kick count was pathetic incometence by the umpires. Zgo back and look at the replay. Our players are pinged for a decision and then the exact same thing will happen to a WCE player and it is play on. The inconsistancy was appalling and had a huge bearing on the outcome of the game. At one stage the free kick count was 26-3 against.

This has nothing to do about looking for excuses. It has to do with institutionalised corruption, bias, incompetence, and the so called competition where only money counts and integrity of the game means nothing.

And if you cant see the difference between the two, there is no point continuing the conversation.

[plugger66]

How do you even bother going to the footy when in your mind the game and season is over before it even starts. I also expected the answer about the goal umpiring you are dead right they were just mistakes but when it happens against us it is cheating. When you get in your straight jacket tomorrow to go to the footy I hope you enjoy the experience and think at the end of the game even if we win the AFl will make sure we cannot win the GF.

I even heard in 1997 the AFL told Stan Alves to leave Shanahan on jarman for the whole game or we would be kicked out of the AFL and even worse Guerra was told if he had kicked a goal off the ground from 5 metres out with less than a minute to play in the PF he would be shot by firing squad.

I will go on Sunday thing we have as good of a chance as winning as any other side where as you will go thinking why I am on here in this straight jacket.

And by the way that doesnt make me a better supporter than you I am just more comfortable.

[Mr Magic]

What's that saying?

'There is none so blind as he who will not see.'

Plugger, why bother debating if you refuse to accept anybody else has a pov which may have some merit, even if it differs with yours?

I can't speak for anybody else on here, but whilst I have strong opinions on most football questions, I am prepared to listen to other posters pov to either confirm my own or to learn something.

Your posts make it abundantly clear that you do not accept anybody else's opinion, unless it agrees with your own.

IMHO your last post in this thread was totally disrespectful of any Saints supporter who doesn't share your particular view of football and as such bears no useful purpose other than attempt to belittle those posters.

I don't understand why you feel the need to continually enter a debate, not to exchange ideas, but to belittle and demean others by lecturing to all and sundry why it's 'your way or the highway'.
The moral smugness of your 'Whinging Supporters' thread and your 'Losers' tag is breathtaking.

Why is it you feel the need to respond to any criticism of the AFL administration/umpires/MRP/Tribunal?
I doubt that there is any poster on here who is unaware of your thoughts on the matter.
Many on here have bemoaned the B4E anti-GT posts but at least his posts were entertaining in the main, unlike yours.

[joffaboy]

How do you even bother going to the footy when in your mind the game and season is over before it even starts. I also expected the answer about the goal umpiring you are dead right they were just mistakes but when it happens against us it is cheating. When you get in your straight jacket tomorrow to go to the footy I hope you enjoy the experience and think at the end of the game even if we win the AFl will make sure we cannot win the GF.

I even heard in 1997 the AFL told Stan Alves to leave Shanahan on jarman for the whole game or we would be kicked out of the AFL and even worse Guerra was told if he had kicked a goal off the ground from 5 metres out with less than a minute to play in the PF he would be shot by firing squad.

I will go on Sunday thing we have as good of a chance as winning as any other side where as you will go thinking why I am on here in this straight jacket.

And by the way that doesnt make me a better supporter than you I am just more comfortable.

Why with the hyperbole?

Dont make judgement on me because I can see the wood for the trees.

I love the Saints. It is tribal. I go because I love my team. I couldn't give a fig about the AFL hierarchy. If the Saints stopped being tomorrow I would not support football.

As for your deflections and smokescreens, really I can see you cant disassociate what the AFL's corporate strategy and objectives are and the culture that it has nurtured to alow incompetency to flourish.

FWIW I gave one example of blatant cheating. That was the Whispers in the Sky incident. The AFL with its smokescreen and compliant media swept it under the carpet therefore giving carte blanche to the umpires to be as incompetent and precious as they want to be, at the expense of supporters who pay big dollars to support their club.

That one isolated incident of documented cheating is however insignificant compared to the AFL's blantant bias and inconsistancies.

Why do I bother? As I said I love my club. Sentimental? irrational? Silly? Yes all of those. Anybody with any common sense and rationality would not continue to waste there money on such a skewed and bias competition.

But football is not about sense. It is about passion. It is about tribalism. It is love of your team, the enjoyment of winning with like minded supporters all around you.

It is about emotion.

that is why I go. That is why I question the AFL. That is why I will continue to question and discuss and complain and critisise and praise and argue and agree and disagree.

Why do I bother? Because this is my game. My club. My tribe. Not Dimetrious. Not the corporates. Not Rod Butterss. Not Grant Thomas or Eddie McGuire or Jeff Kennett's. Its mine and yours and all the other punters who slavishly attend games and unconditionally support their club.

But it wont stop me asking questions especially when the AFL try to tell me that black is white. I might love my club but dont take me for a flaming fool.