underwhelming credit to Lyon...

[saintsRrising]

But I was right about the list. Tell me otherwise

You were wrong about the list. At the end of 2006 it was going backwards.

Last night rookies Jones, Eddy and McQulater all played good to serviceable games.

Lyon was bagged for picking up Demspter, Schneider and King.....all played good roles in last nights win.

Lyon has turned the list around from declining to improving. Lyon has also got some underage player in Steven and Eljay in the wings..plus Ben as a young ruck. Another rookie in Geary will play many games for the Saints once he masses up.. watch out for Miles next year too.

Yes Ross practices list management and is putting in place long and short term solutions for our list.

Problem is that some people expect Ross to have a magic wand which he can waive for instant fixes.

He has TAUGHT our players how to play defensively (and I am talking team here and not just the back half)...something that they lacked.

He has brought in pace and run to the team....he has rebuilt our ruck divsion....he has players for the future that are either just emerging, or will emerge soon.

He is taking a sound systematic approach to the coaching of St Kilda and in manging our list. All credit to him I say.




In 2006 we lacked run and pace in the team....last night we clearly outran the Hawks.


As for you also now rubbishing the Hawks list.....I personally would have thought that the Hawks have had an ok year. They have lots of young talent including players gained through the rookie syste and they will closer to the top of the ladder than the botom fora good many years yet.

[maverick]

Ross tried a few things early......NONE of them worked

*Goddard vs Williams (shocker)
*Blake vs Roughie (not sure who fisher was on)
*Gram vs Hodge (to the well once too often, Clarkson would have seen this one coming.....Hodge is a very different player to Judd)
*Schnieder in the back pocket vs Rioli (shocker)

Then changed a lot, and it ALL worked

*Gilbert onto Williams
*Schnieder fwd
*Fisher to Roughie
*Blake to the Ruck
*McQualter to Mitchell
*Gram to Rioli at HB
*Milne into the midfield

Dempster vs Bateman was the only 4q match-up that was OK


The inspiration from Nick and Nick did not hurt

Good post.
The early matchups were ordinary, and we panicked a little with them as well. The adjustment after half time was very good.

Towards the end of the 2nd and after half time I think we realised we were one short up forward meaning Blake went to ruck and as superb.

If we could find another key forward and release Kosi into the ruck/forward spot we we would become a lot more dangerous.

Allen would be perfect, he just needs to find the ball a lot more.

[saintsRrising]

PS....and if one ever was able to get a best 22.....last night could well have had in it..

Baker
Goose
X
Gardi

So again..credit to Lyon.

[rodgerfox]

But I was right about the list. Tell me otherwise

You were wrong about the list. At the end of 2006 it was going backwards.

Last night rookies Jones, Eddy and McQulater all played good to serviceable games.

Lyon was bagged for picking up Demspter, Schneider and King.....all played good roles in last nights win.

Lyon has turned the list around from declining to improving.

I don't really agree SrR.

Jones, Eddy and McQualter just made up the numbers. Did Ok, but no better than any fringe players we've had on the list before.

Dempster was Ok, King was pretty ordinary and Schneider was simply piss weak again.

These 3 have offered no more (perhaps King aside) than any other 'depth' players we've had before.

Once again, no different to the past 6 years, our best 6-8 players are genuine stars who when they play well we look good. The big difference now, is that these stars are now men - not kids.

I don't think our list have improved at all except for King. The big difference is that they are now mature and most importanly, are fit.

[saintsRrising]

Allen would be perfect, he just needs to find the ball a lot more.

Allen will come good I feel..just needs a bit more time.

Importantly for me he reads the game well and knows when and where to run to. This is a great quality for a forward.

[Saints43]

Lyon was bagged for picking up Demspter, Schneider and King.....all played good roles in last nights win.

There is nothing you will not write to back up an argument...

We still have improvement on what we did last night - fantastic as it was.

That's how good the list is.

Of course it needs to be coached well and four in a row - and improving - speaks for itself.

[Liam_G]

......while again, I was cursing what I saw in the first half "Again!!! This stinking flooding, over-handled game style!"

Flooding? Us? First Half? You've got to be kidding. Only once, at the end of the third quarter, did we push numbers down into our defensive half. The entire first half was Hawthorn throwing player after player behind the ball. We didn't flood once.

[JeffDunne]

Last night rookies Jones, Eddy and McQulater all played good to serviceable games.

McQualter's a by-product of 5 years of list management neglect. Isn't he?

Ahh . . . I see what you did there!

[bigcarl]

Let's be honest - we have a top 4 list. All that is happening now, is we're actually playing like one.

Nothing too impessive, just doing what we should be doing considering the talent of our list. We're back in the game.

that's how i see it, too. ross took his time but is beginning to stamp his authority on games and that is what good coaches do.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Great coaching last night by RL. Hopefully he and the players can keep it up!

RL is probably in the most thankless coaching position: we lose and its his fault, we win and its because we have a "top 4 list".

[rodgerfox]

RL is probably in the most thankless coaching position: we lose and its his fault, we win and its because we have a "top 4 list".

Ha!

I guess a great list isn't the only thing he inherited then.

[markp]

RL is probably in the most thankless coaching position: we lose and its his fault, we win and its because we have a "top 4 list".

Ha!

I guess a great list isn't the only thing he inherited then.

There is no other explanation... you are a twat.

[JeffDunne]

C'mon mark, lighten up.

[markp]

C'mon mark, lighten up.

Virtually every single one of his posts is indirectly about the GT 'legacy'..... he's the one who needs to lighten up.

This top 4 bollocks is just that, bollocks.... more than 4 teams could claim to have a top 4 list. Means nothing.

[Buckets]

Absolutely fantastic coaching by Lyon last night the moves made in the 2nd half turned the game. He has shown over the last 4 weeks that he has stamped his authority on the team and the team in turn has responded. Well done Ross you have proved me wrong and i couldn't be happier!
On the flip side the last 4 weeks have proven alot on here right when they said that the LIST was good enough to be a threat and after last night there will be a few teams above us who will be worried if they have to face us come finals!

GO SAINTS!!!!

[BAM! (shhhh)]

But I was right about the list. Tell me otherwise

You were wrong about the list. At the end of 2006 it was going backwards.

Last night rookies Jones, Eddy and McQulater all played good to serviceable games.

Lyon was bagged for picking up Demspter, Schneider and King.....all played good roles in last nights win.

Who bagged the King pickup? As I recall, most thought he was a solid addition.

As for the rookies, of the 3 you list, only Jones has gone any distance to cementing his spot in the 22. Mini will likely go out for Baker at some stage, and Eddy will probably make way for Xavier Clarke... though Armitage has tended to come back strong after a run in the V, so another could be in the cards for him at some point. Gilbert has to count himself lucky that neither Raph nor Gwilt has stepped up to the degree necessary to make them an easy selection.

Further, lets hold off on the radical list management praise for the work at the 2006 draft for now. Suddenly there was funding for the rookie list in a really strong draft year. Last night we had 2 rookies in as opposed to 1 national draftee - which says to me our scouting still has some work to do. It could be that in years to come, we look at 2006 in a similar vein to 2001, but to try and credit it as either a list turnaround, or give credit in 1 place is a pretty clear oversimplification. Not saying you're wrong, not saying MB's wrong... but we're pretty sure of where you both stand.

Can we not agree that the comeback last night was a pretty clear sign that St Kilda has turned a corner? The list looks pretty good, the coach made some good moves, there was on field leadership, and the players deserve credit... where we were at the end of 2006 has little or no relevance, because the team looks ready to stand up and be counted for what they can do now, regardless of change.

Whether the change was necessary or not really doesn't need to be played out in every thread, as it's pretty clear that most of us will NEVER agree.

[Armoooo]

I was a hater and I have no problem admitting it, but Ross has impressed me in the last four weeks, I think he has conceded that his stagnant stop start, ring a round the rosie play is outdated and he has adjusted accordingly.

We have started playing to our own strengths and the results reflect that.

I have no doubt there was an overhaul of the game plan, it can't be something as simple as the players have finally adjusted to the new style, because there is no way that is what we were trying to do for the first 10 rounds....

[Oh When the Saints]

I haven't seen a St Kilda side fitter than the present one. Full credit to Peter Mulkearns and David Misson, both of whom were lured to the club by one man.

Ross Lyon.

There were a number of players in that side last night - Steven King, Adam Schneider, Shaun Dempster, David Armitage, Robert Eddy and Clinton Jones - who may not have been at the club has one man not been in charge. A man who does have input into the drafting/recruiting process.

Ross Lyon.

During 2008, Jarryd Allen, Jarryn Geary, David Armitage, Robert Eddy and Clinton Jones have all played games as first or second year players. They have all made contributions that suggest that our player development system is good. We have two development coaches appointed by one man.

Ross Lyon.

There is no doubt that there has been a tweaking of our style of play, with more deliberate selections of quicker players and different rotations through the midfield to generate more run and attack. Some might argue this was obvious from the start, but credit to one man for having the guts to change things that weren't working.

Ross Lyon.

Match day coaching during the last three weeks has been excellent. Andrew McQualter kept Sam Mitchell to 4 possessions when moved onto him for a half of football. Against North Melbourne his use of Gram and Sam Fisher as midfielders was excellent. Releasing Riewoldt to the wing. All credit to one man.

Ross Lyon.


St Kilda are 9-7 and could lose their next four and miss the finals. But it's nice to see it finally become obvious to the general public that our coach has a football brain, an understanding of our list, of fitness requirements, of how to coach on matchday and of how to build and inspire a team.
The people who work with him, know him and appointed him saw this.


The second half last night was the best I have seen us play live since Round 14, 2005.

Good luck to the coaching staff and players for the rest of the year. And Go Saints!

[Mr Magic]

Welcome back OWTS!

[barks4eva]

As I have always said, I call it like I see it

[stinger]

I have been reading the various threads tonight and I would have to say that Lyon does not see to be getting the credit he deserves.


* He brought in two more runners and quick players in Schneider and Fiora to play a team where all but Max were capable of having run in the midfield. He copped a HUGE bag from most on this.

Result was that we outran the Hawks in the second half.....and that our run and legspeed were excellent

* He got most of his match ups right. BJ 's lack of pace was exposed early on in the backline and the Hawks exploited it. RL re-adjusted the backline to counter.

* He swung Blake into the ruck at the right time. Mini to shut down Mithchell etc etc..

*He kicked Dal, Milne...and through them the balance of the team up the bum a few weeks ago to lift the workrate of the WHOLE team. Players such as Kosi have noticeably lifted since.


*The Saints are now obviously a pretty fit team...able to run out games strongly...made more so with good team and structural selections.

Lyons fingerprints were all over tonights win....and great credit is due to him.

totally agree.....

[bergsone]

Credit where credit is due.Still not convinced entirelyRe schneider in back half,Fiora selection etc ,BUT match ups Gram on Judd use of mini ,eddy etc dropping of NDS Milne,have shown to me at least that he is prepared to make the TOUGH decisions to get sucess
Sure I will knock him,as will others on here ,if i dont agree with match play,matchups ,selections etc thats my right.
Old saying is your only as good as your,last game.RL has now strung together 3-4 good games with obvious planning being a big part of of this.
Keep this going and I and others will have no complaints.
WELL DONE

[saintsRrising]

Who bagged the King pickup? As I recall, most thought he was a solid addition.

.

Yes most did..

..but when the Saints were having lean trot this year Lyon was bagged by some posters for the players he picked up from other clubs including King.

[saintsRrising]

Whether the change was necessary or not really doesn't need to be played out in every thread, as it's pretty clear that most of us will NEVER agree.

I did not start this thread on GT..but on the lack of praise for Lyon this week...and lack of credit to him.

Many have offered praise...but others have used this thread as a vehicle to continue to bag Lyon despite agreat win.

For example..RL dropping Dal was said to be a sign of desperation.....

rubbish.

It was a good COACHING move with the coach clearly letting everyone know what his expectations of all players were.

I read with interest an article in The Age this week where there was a story on the grrat Melbourne Coach Norm smith.
A team dinner prior to the GF Norm Smith publically baked Dixon and another player saying that he would have dropped them if he had another option.
The two players then both played blinders in the GF with Melbourne winning.

They confronted smith post GF wanteing to know why he had said what he did.

He asked them if they played well...and when they said yes...he said there is your answer.

so was Norm smith desperate? No he was a good coach and used different methods to get through to different players.

[saintsRrising]

By the way....more good coaching...

Did anyone notice that because if the way the Saints now play when the opposition have the ball that the Hawks were under enormous pressure...so much so that in the second half they continually stuffed up and only scored 3 goals?

The much rubbished RL gameplan was the reason for this.

It needs to be remembered that a gameplan is not just about what you do when you have the ball....it is also what you do when the opposition have it and that these are two quite different things.