Positives for Ross Lyon

[Dan Warna]

Ross was always on a flogging to nothing. I saw what GT. was trying to do, but last night the defensive game complemented the attacking game (something Sydney never really had), the boys were able to do both at the same time.

Enthusiasm has created this and finally understanding that we can play as attacking football all day long, provided we are accountable too and don't forget about fitness, this is improving the whole time.

Ross has always known what he has wanted to do, sure he has made mistakes, but he (as other coaches) has to rely on a fair amount of luck at times too.

Supporters (Saints at least), will get frustrated when things appear to go backwards, but this was always going to happen to us, such was Thommo's grip on us, I just hope the latest legal issues might finally bury him so we can move on.

Ross Lyon has my full support, I can see the light in the near distance, I hope you can too

when we turtled, the blues nearly got back on top of us.

when we started kicking long, even if it was to a contest, we got on top.

chippilotto, still gets us in trouble.

attacking football got us into the game.

[Teflon]

Ross was always on a flogging to nothing. I saw what GT. was trying to do, but last night the defensive game complemented the attacking game (something Sydney never really had), the boys were able to do both at the same time.

Enthusiasm has created this and finally understanding that we can play as attacking football all day long, provided we are accountable too and don't forget about fitness, this is improving the whole time.

Ross has always known what he has wanted to do, sure he has made mistakes, but he (as other coaches) has to rely on a fair amount of luck at times too.

Supporters (Saints at least), will get frustrated when things appear to go backwards, but this was always going to happen to us, such was Thommo's grip on us, I just hope the latest legal issues might finally bury him so we can move on.

Ross Lyon has my full support, I can see the light in the near distance, I hope you can too

when we turtled, the blues nearly got back on top of us.

when we started kicking long, even if it was to a contest, we got on top.

chippilotto, still gets us in trouble.

attacking football got us into the game.

show me a quote where Lyon says "I want us to play defensive football exclusively"

Its called opposition - sometimes they dont let you play your "attack" game all the time...its a question of how consistently you can employ your game plan. Lyons trying to get us consistently playing his obviously we are slowly getting better at it.

[barneyboyz]

I think sometimes we need to take our biases out of the equation, whether you like Ross, Grant, Stan, or Kenny (left out Tim, bless him), they all have a plan, some good, some not so good.

At least with Ross' he saw a weakness and has been trying to eradicate it.

When the boys switch 'on', they still play a great attacking brand of footy, what I saw lasty night was the interaction of both, something we (I don't think) couldn't do well 3 years ago.

Now some people here said that under Lyon we had lost our attacking style....ask Carlton & North about that. Just the confidence to actually do it and some extended fitness, oh and not to mention adding some younger blokes into the fold, the same ones who gave us the momentum at the start of the year.

I hear some of you typing away your responses now, "why didn't Ross do this earlier?"; well, any player who should normally be given an entry to a senior 22 should always get in first. when that wasn't working he had to do something different, hence the dropping of Dal & Milne. Result? enthusiasm, remember not everyone playing for St Kilda had Grant's gameplan burnt into their head...Jones, Eddy, Dempster, King Gardi and so on.....

The current results are directly relative to confidence, directly resulting from enthusiasm, the same thing happens from U/10's right through to AFL. NO SECRETS!!

[Teflon]

I think sometimes we need to take our biases out of the equation, whether you like Ross, Grant, Stan, or Kenny (left out Tim, bless him), they all have a plan, some good, some not so good.

At least with Ross' he saw a weakness and has been trying to eradicate it.

When the boys switch 'on', they still play a great attacking brand of footy, what I saw lasty night was the interaction of both, something we (I don't think) couldn't do well 3 years ago.

Now some people here said that under Lyon we had lost our attacking style....ask Carlton & North about that. Just the confidence to actually do it and some extended fitness, oh and not to mention adding some younger blokes into the fold, the same ones who gave us the momentum at the start of the year.

I hear some of you typing away your responses now, "why didn't Ross do this earlier?"; well, any player who should normally be given an entry to a senior 22 should always get in first. when that wasn't working he had to do something different, hence the dropping of Dal & Milne. Result? enthusiasm, remember not everyone playing for St Kilda had Grant's gameplan burnt into their head...Jones, Eddy, Dempster, King Gardi and so on.....

The current results are directly relative to confidence, directly resulting from enthusiasm, the same thing happens from U/10's right through to AFL. NO SECRETS!!

Good post. Im not interested in compatring anyone - we IMHO ARE learning to be both attack AND defense that takes time.

[markp]

Would you consider the defensive style of play less physically taxing than the purely attacking one over the course of both a game and a season?...

Seems to me when Sydney were at their best, they were doing just enough to stay in touch early then going all out when it mattered (and the opposition tired).

Maybe the top 3 (cats, dogs, hawks) could falter and lose momentum in the second half of the season as we build and build??... Could it be that (whether intentional or not) because we seemingly haven't been going flat out, we are primed? *more praying*

[Teflon]

Mark I reckon Dogs/Hawks could and we can beat both these at our best IMO.......Geelong......hmmm they dont look tired ubnfortunately

[markp]

Mark I reckon Dogs/Hawks could and we can beat both these at our best IMO.......Geelong......hmmm they dont look tired ubnfortunately

Yup, but Geelong must falter.... eventually!

In an ideal world a team would knock them out (like the filth nearly did last year) before we had to meet them....

[stinger]

Happy to put my hand up as a Lyon defender along with a few others.

Re reading this thread is interesting....so is the lack of some of the doomsayers on this site when we win.......where is Babba? Kunny? Dodg Everton today????... ...I woulda thought theyd be about for another crack at Ross.

Nice to hear JD starting to see wood for trees.....

Some will forever relsih doom and gloom and attempts to become the prophets others like to look at how we can get better.

For me I do believe in Lyon pure and simple I like the way he analyses a game - he understands its technicalities and that will ultimately translate IMO to a better educated St Kilda footy side that can win both attacking AND defensively in an environment thats about TEAM and not the previous reliance on individual brilliance.

Since hes joined out club Lyon has:

1. Improved our ruck stocks immeasurably (some of Kings taps last night were sublime...) - List improvement

2. Added some true talent with kids AND used the rookies - Geary, Eddy, Mqualter (who I doubted but who Lyon obviously thinks can play), Jones (massive improver) - List improvement

3. Recruited some good kids - Armo, Allen, Stevens (rate this guy), McEvoy (big rate)

4. Bought Luke Ball back from the death.

5. Infact improved injury management out of site - right people. He got em.

6. Kept Milne/Harvs, added some additional backline help in Dempster (many wont like it but hes been good and we got him for nought) - List improvement

of late......

7. Commenced adding midfield depth - Gram/Goddard/Fisher

8. Focussed on developing a much less predictable fwd set up with better use of Roo/Kosi IMHO (I like the way he's at times added Geary, Armo up there also).

9. Commenced finding out who will/wont make it. He has at least started to play Gwilt, Fergusons, Mqualters etc

He's no messiah Lyon (and we dont need another), hes made mistakes IMO also (FFS hes a rookie coach we must remember...), learnt from them and never become an irrational mess under pressure (unlike Mark Harvey....)

He can and will be a great coach and we will see why many peers when he was appointed said St kilda finally had the right man.

Support him - EVEN IF - we stumble along the way. Do an un-St Kilda like thing as supporters and hold your nerve.

...good post...have to say....

[saintsRrising]

Ross was always on a flogging to nothing. I saw what GT. was trying to do, but last night the defensive game complemented the attacking game (something Sydney never really had), the boys were able to do both at the same time.

Enthusiasm has created this and finally understanding that we can play as attacking football all day long, provided we are accountable too and don't forget about fitness, this is improving the whole time.

Ross has always known what he has wanted to do, sure he has made mistakes, but he (as other coaches) has to rely on a fair amount of luck at times too.

Supporters (Saints at least), will get frustrated when things appear to go backwards, but this was always going to happen to us, such was Thommo's grip on us, I just hope the latest legal issues might finally bury him so we can move on.

Ross Lyon has my full support, I can see the light in the near distance, I hope you can too

when we turtled, the blues nearly got back on top of us.

when we started kicking long, even if it was to a contest, we got on top.

chippilotto, still gets us in trouble.

attacking football got us into the game.

chippilotto....all teams ...avoid kicking to a contest when they can...even the mighty Geelong at present. all teams when blocked attempt to switch play to try and open up space somewhere.

When players lose confidence or fold under pressure they just start going less direct more often....and start running less to support their team mates ...and to create the space to kick into.


As to what got the Blues back in the last quarter...it had absolutely NOTHING to do with kicking sideways, short or long etc...and everything to do with Judd turning on a blinder and winning clearances at the start of the last quarter....and in Judd being the class player that he is, deftly handballing it out to good options in space.

What got us back into the game was our greater midfield depth and Judd tiring.

[WayneJudson42]

"when we turtled, the blues nearly got back on top of us.

when we started kicking long, even if it was to a contest, we got on top. "

Dan, surely we got into trouble when Judd turned it on? It's easy to say that chipping it hurt us, but I thought that quick entries into their fwd 50 put immense pressure on us.

Everyone seems to hold the view that we went defensive. I highly doubt that the 3/4 time instructions were to shut the game down so early.

Let's give some credit to the scum's fighting back. Luckily, we continued to apply pressure and caused errors.

[rodgerfox]

Re reading this thread is interesting....so is the lack of some of the doomsayers on this site when we win.......where is Babba? Kunny? Dodg Everton today????... ...I woulda thought theyd be about for another crack at Ross.

Why?

Most people post opinions and views as they see them. They don't all hold onto them like they are some sort of personal legacy that must be defended at all costs, at all times.

Most reasonable people that is. Obviously, you are not included in his category.

Why would people put the boots into Lyon now? Just to defend their stance?? Only very infantile and lonely people need to do that. Obviously, you are included in this category.

We just won. Not overly convincingly, and again against a team outside of the 8. Again, our 'game plan' nearly cost us, and we needed star talent to get us over the line.

If Lyon can get that to happen every week then he needs to take credit. Whether he's controlling it doesn't matter, if we win then he did his job.

So far, he's coached well for 3 weeks during his 18 month tenure - which has included 6 good quarters of footy.

It's the been the best we've played since the first half of the Elim final against Melbourne in 2006.

Our players are fit, and our stars are performing. It means stuff all if we don't win 5 of the next 7 matches.

We are, talent wise, in the top 4 of the comp. Our ladder position and our results need to start to reflect that, or Lyon isn't doing his job.

He's been given the 'time' that everyone wanted him to have, and we're winning and playing quite well. There's really no excuse now.

[markp]

Re reading this thread is interesting....so is the lack of some of the doomsayers on this site when we win.......where is Babba? Kunny? Dodg Everton today????... ...I woulda thought theyd be about for another crack at Ross.

Why?

Most people post opinions and views as they see them. They don't all hold onto them like they are some sort of personal legacy that must be defended at all costs, at all times.

Most reasonable people that is. Obviously, you are not included in his category.

Why would people put the boots into Lyon now? Just to defend their stance?? Only very infantile and lonely people need to do that. Obviously, you are included in this category.

We just won. Not overly convincingly, and again against a team outside of the 8. Again, our 'game plan' nearly cost us, and we needed star talent to get us over the line.

If Lyon can get that to happen every week then he needs to take credit. Whether he's controlling it doesn't matter, if we win then he did his job.

So far, he's coached well for 3 weeks during his 18 month tenure - which has included 6 good quarters of footy.

It's the been the best we've played since the first half of the Elim final against Melbourne in 2006.

Our players are fit, and our stars are performing. It means stuff all if we don't win 5 of the next 7 matches.

We are, talent wise, in the top 4 of the comp. Our ladder position and our results need to start to reflect that, or Lyon isn't doing his job.

He's been given the 'time' that everyone wanted him to have, and we're winning and playing quite well. There's really no excuse now.

You just proved his point.....

[rodgerfox]

You just proved his point.....

How so?

We won. We're playing well. Therefore, he's coaching well.


We're a top 4 side, we need to play like one for Lyon to be doing his job.


If that was his/her point, then yes - I proved it.

[markp]

Why would people put the boots into Lyon now? Just to defend their stance?? Only very infantile and lonely people need to do that.

Tell me which of the below does not contradict the above....

We just won. Not overly convincingly, and again against a team outside of the 8. Again, our 'game plan' nearly cost us, and we needed star talent to get us over the line.

Whether he's controlling it doesn't matter...
So far, he's coached well for 3 weeks during his 18 month tenure

It's the been the best we've played since the first half of the Elim final against Melbourne in 2006.

We are, talent wise, in the top 4 of the comp. Our ladder position and our results need to start to reflect that, or Lyon isn't doing his job.

He's been given the 'time' that everyone wanted him to have, and we're winning and playing quite well. There's really no excuse now.

What else needs to be said?

You are pushing your barrow.

I know it's like a game to you, but don't piss on our backs and tell us it's raining.... most of us aren't that stupid (I hope).

[Ralphy]

apparently caro is on this forum,
where is she,
did everyone hear hutcho this morning

[markp]

apparently caro is on this forum,
where is she,
did everyone hear hutcho this morning

It's not me... is it you?!

[rodgerfox]

I know it's like a game to you, but don't piss on our backs and tell us it's raining.... most of us aren't that stupid (I hope).

I don't know what you're reading, but it's obvisouly not what I'm reading.

Maybe it is raining?

[Ralphy]

nOpe.

[markp]

I know it's like a game to you, but don't piss on our backs and tell us it's raining.... most of us aren't that stupid (I hope).

I don't know what you're reading, but it's obvisouly not what I'm reading.

Maybe it is raining?

Na, it's you chief! (pissing that is, not caro...)

[markp]

nOpe.

I believe you Ralphy, but that is what caro would say too!

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Do those who believe strongly in Lyon really expect those of us who aren't yet sold to be bashing the coach while we're winning? To speak for myself, I'm more occupied with hoping the winning continues, my doubts are put to rest and the Saints march on triumphantly.

The Saints are playing like a team united, and we're getting results. I don't think like a few seem to that we've had all that radical a shift in gameplan - it just looks better when players play the running handball game advocated to allow for the backline flood, and let us play some percantages. As long as we're getting results, that's all I ask of a coach.

For me, the last 3 wins were all games which were must win though... so while credit given, Lyon hasn't got me on the bandwagon just yet.

For the first time this year though, the band is playing in tune, so I might jump on board yet.

[markp]

Do those who believe strongly in Lyon really expect those of us who aren't yet sold to be bashing the coach while we're winning? To speak for myself, I'm more occupied with hoping the winning continues, my doubts are put to rest and the Saints march on triumphantly.

The Saints are playing like a team united, and we're getting results. I don't think like a few seem to that we've had all that radical a shift in gameplan - it just looks better when players play the running handball game advocated to allow for the backline flood, and let us play some percantages. As long as we're getting results, that's all I ask of a coach.

For me, the last 3 wins were all games which were must win though... so while credit given, Lyon hasn't got me on the bandwagon just yet.

For the first time this year though, the band is playing in tune, so I might jump on board yet.

Well said.... it's just the constant disingenuous revisionist bollocks peddling that can grate at times.

If RL wins us a flag this year, some will say GT would've won two by now... it's tragic.

Today at least, the sun is shining.

[Teflon]

Do those who believe strongly in Lyon really expect those of us who aren't yet sold to be bashing the coach while we're winning? To speak for myself, I'm more occupied with hoping the winning continues, my doubts are put to rest and the Saints march on triumphantly.

The Saints are playing like a team united, and we're getting results. I don't think like a few seem to that we've had all that radical a shift in gameplan - it just looks better when players play the running handball game advocated to allow for the backline flood, and let us play some percantages. As long as we're getting results, that's all I ask of a coach.

For me, the last 3 wins were all games which were must win though... so while credit given, Lyon hasn't got me on the bandwagon just yet.

For the first time this year though, the band is playing in tune, so I might jump on board yet.

Well said.... it's just the constant disingenuous revisionist bollocks peddling that can grate at times.

If RL wins us a flag this year, some will say GT would've won two by now... it's tragic.

Today at least, the sun is shining.

Well said Mark.

I laugh at Dodg (lets face it we all do) that aside..... he accuses others of holding on to an opinion no matter what.........then rolls out the SAME tired, withered piece of poo opinion hes had for weeks?

You are right - this is a game to Dodg thats ALL about Dodg.....who else would start a thread with their own name....

We still IMO havent hit our stride yet. And yes we need to beat more convincing opposition than the last 3 weeks.....but we have produced some performances that showed some character and slowly our fwd set up has finally started to look a little dangerous.

As for shifting game plans.....maybe its just a case of finally we have the fitness and the confidence to start pulling it off - YET still NOT for 4 qtrs.

[WayneJudson42]

I'm still perplexed that many do not allow for the fact that it takes time to change style after having 5 years of playing in a particular way.

Add to that the fact that the new style requires a higher fitness base... surely, you gotta cut the guy some slack.

To expect that we would pick up from where the GT left off is naive at best. Despite the club's spin.

It's all well and good to say that a coach should play to the player's strengths, but will it win us a flag that way? Who's to say that our old style would be any good in today's era? Why can't a coach be allowed to build a team that can play to the strengths of his philosophy.

[Teflon]

I'm still perplexed that many do not allow for the fact that it takes time to change style after having 5 years of playing in a particular way.

Add to that the fact that the new style requires a higher fitness base... surely, you gotta cut the guy some slack.

To expect that we would pick up from where the GT left off is naive at best. Despite the club's spin.

It's all well and good to say that a coach should play to the player's strengths, but will it win us a flag that way? Who's to say that our old style would be any good in today's era? Why can't a coach be allowed to build a team that can play to the strengths of his philosophy.

yep, yep and yep.

Im convinced our previous "shoot out" style would fall over under finals pressure - and the proof is there to see.

I dont believe we have all facets of Lyons game plan rigth but to me there is an increase in accountability/defensiveness that you need to master when its tight. That takes time. Its about having a team that under constant opposition pressure is able to maintain its structure and game plan - thats instinctiveness...takes time. Above all thatits about knowing when to attack/when to defend and to be able to seamlessly switch between the 2......you then gotta get 22 guys used to playing a different way previously to instinctively know when thats required......takes time and we havent even gotten to the need to introduce new cattlle and indoctrinate them also.