the positive for Ross is he is getting paid.
thats about it.
Positives for Ross Lyon
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Life Long Saint
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Re: Positives for Ross Lyon
1. What are his positive qualities?
He is over half way through his contract.
2. How has he improved the club / team?
He has given the players a chance to get away from Melbourne during September and freshen up for the Spring Carnival.
3. What strategies has he put in place that will ensure future success?
Ensuring that we can take advantage of the good players in the draft by getting us early picks.
4. Who has improved under his coaching? Who is likely to?
The goal umpires. Due to our poor record in front of goal, the umpires are now much fitter and healthier due to the extra running.
5. Has he improved the list and how?
See point 3.
6. What facts can you provide to support the notion we are on the right track? (Facts only please, not just the usual vitriol that I'm prepared to cop for daring to question RL and his supporters)
'cause the prez says so!
He is over half way through his contract.
2. How has he improved the club / team?
He has given the players a chance to get away from Melbourne during September and freshen up for the Spring Carnival.
3. What strategies has he put in place that will ensure future success?
Ensuring that we can take advantage of the good players in the draft by getting us early picks.
4. Who has improved under his coaching? Who is likely to?
The goal umpires. Due to our poor record in front of goal, the umpires are now much fitter and healthier due to the extra running.
5. Has he improved the list and how?
See point 3.
6. What facts can you provide to support the notion we are on the right track? (Facts only please, not just the usual vitriol that I'm prepared to cop for daring to question RL and his supporters)
'cause the prez says so!
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duckduckduckgoose
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can this thread be forwarded to Ross.... maybe he can start this list off?
I haven't heard a single serious tick that can be given next to his name.
I too am genuinely interested in hearing from any RL fans- and why they think he is the right man for the job?
I haven't heard a single serious tick that can be given next to his name.
I too am genuinely interested in hearing from any RL fans- and why they think he is the right man for the job?
I bought a shirt from Target once.
It had a hard tag on it too.
I know how Dal feels.
It had a hard tag on it too.
I know how Dal feels.
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aussierules0k
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Last edited by aussierules0k on Tue 23 Jun 2009 4:42am, edited 1 time in total.
5 prelims in 7 years. 40 wins from 49 games.
2009 and 2010 were 2 of the 5 best years ever by the St.Kilda FC.
Thanks for all your efforts Saints.
2009 and 2010 were 2 of the 5 best years ever by the St.Kilda FC.
Thanks for all your efforts Saints.
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the shadow
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This thread was not started as another "sack Ross Lyon" bitchfest. I don't want him sacked. That would be futile and would only further destabilise the club and playing list.
What I genuinely wanted to know was what is it in Ross Lyon's style, methods and philosophies that gives us some hope and confidence in the future?
ATM there appears to be little evidence in support of the case for Ross. Robert Walls keeps telling us he is the right man for the job, but hasn't yet explained why that is the case. The responses to this thread also indicate that most supporters and forumites have no idea either.
Scary isn't it? I've no doubt he'll coach until the end of his contract. The way he and the team are going at the moment, I shudder to think what shape we'll be in by then.
What I genuinely wanted to know was what is it in Ross Lyon's style, methods and philosophies that gives us some hope and confidence in the future?
ATM there appears to be little evidence in support of the case for Ross. Robert Walls keeps telling us he is the right man for the job, but hasn't yet explained why that is the case. The responses to this thread also indicate that most supporters and forumites have no idea either.
Scary isn't it? I've no doubt he'll coach until the end of his contract. The way he and the team are going at the moment, I shudder to think what shape we'll be in by then.
Run like Ditterich, arms flailing, cause fear in the enemy, make fellow saints walk tall!
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Re: Positives for Ross Lyon
I've been pretty negative today... so I'll give this a go:
We're much more aware of team weaknesses.
We now employ the full gammut of recruiting options (use of the rookie list has more to do with AFL funding I think, but it's better used...)
Likely to, Lyon era draftees.
He's sat inside the correct coaching box as a key influence when the siren rang on grand final day. He's also sat in the opposite box same situation. He's experienced a winning culture in a coaching capacity.the shadow wrote:There seems to be plenty of negative feedback about Ross Lyon on this forum. Most of the posts about him point out what appear to be considerable faults. His defenders seem to attack his critics rather than extol his virtues. For those who defend him, can you state the following:
1. What are his positive qualities?
Our ruck stocks are better.2. How has he improved the club / team?
We're much more aware of team weaknesses.
We now employ the full gammut of recruiting options (use of the rookie list has more to do with AFL funding I think, but it's better used...)
Rookie promotions?3. What strategies has he put in place that will ensure future success?
Sam Gilbert. Who has then regressed. Leigh Montagna, who has then been nullified through tagging.4. Who has improved under his coaching? Who is likely to?
Likely to, Lyon era draftees.
I would have said yes 12 rounds ago, but everywhere he's brought in new players has been discounted elsewhere... e.g. now we get ruck taps, and can't win the ball in the midfield from either ruckman's tapwork...5. Has he improved the list and how?
A quarter here, a quarter there... not impossible to picture us suddenly hitting our straps...6. What facts can you provide to support the notion we are on the right track? (Facts only please, not just the usual vitriol that I'm prepared to cop for daring to question RL and his supporters)
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
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saintsRrising
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Ok I may have called for his sacking a little early.
This is how i see it right at this moment.
His positives are his ability to addapt and addmit things are not going well.
He could have soldiered on with a bad game plan but he backed hhis players to attack and it has paid off.
His relationship seems from the outside to have improved with the players. It seems like he has stamped his authority on this list.
He is playing young players and trusting them to do jobs. He has improved our midfield by taking a risk and throwing guys who were very safe defenders into the middle and it is paying off at the moment.
I think and this is only my opinion he handles the media better with every interview he does. He is taking responsibility instead of constantly palming it off onto others.
I am very happy with him at the moment and it is not just because we are winning. It is because for the first time under his control i went to a game and absolutely loved what we served up.
This is how i see it right at this moment.
His positives are his ability to addapt and addmit things are not going well.
He could have soldiered on with a bad game plan but he backed hhis players to attack and it has paid off.
His relationship seems from the outside to have improved with the players. It seems like he has stamped his authority on this list.
He is playing young players and trusting them to do jobs. He has improved our midfield by taking a risk and throwing guys who were very safe defenders into the middle and it is paying off at the moment.
I think and this is only my opinion he handles the media better with every interview he does. He is taking responsibility instead of constantly palming it off onto others.
I am very happy with him at the moment and it is not just because we are winning. It is because for the first time under his control i went to a game and absolutely loved what we served up.
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JonathonSmythe
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OK - my 2 cents worth here is that this forum has been way too harsh on Ross and needs to give him a chance. In terms of the specific questions:
1. Positive Qualities
- He is viewed as having a quality character! For me that is important as hard to enforce a no d---heads policy when the coach is one. For mine, the previous coach had a a no "other" d----heads policy
2. How has he improved the team
- Agree we have gone backwards more than forwards but he is trying to teach the team that you need to be able to defend as well as attack to win flags. Not surprising that it is taking time to sink in and hopefully last few weeks show that it is coming together
3. Strategies for Future Success
- See above re learning to defend as well as attack
- He is building a quality team around him across the football department in stead of having to control it all. Again the principles of any organisational success suggest this is the right path
- Is trying to build the right list for a flag after his predecessor did absolutely nothing in this regard for about 5 years
4. Who has improved
- Starting to see young guys like Jones, Armo and Eddy come through - again we had none of this under the previous coach
- Think that we will look back and say that guys like Dal, Milne and some others improved over a 2 year period as a result of developing a defensive side to their game
5. Improved our List
See above re young guys and getting King and MG (now as backup_ has been very important for us
6. Are we on Track
More difficult question as i am not confident that we are on track for a flag. However, believe strongly that if previous coach had stayed we would have been in worse shape as he would have continued his poor list renewal efforts which is critical for success today
Just trying to provide a bit of balance here as do feel that we all overrated the list a little and underestimated the sixe of the job facing Ross and think he needs a proper shot at proving his worth
1. Positive Qualities
- He is viewed as having a quality character! For me that is important as hard to enforce a no d---heads policy when the coach is one. For mine, the previous coach had a a no "other" d----heads policy
2. How has he improved the team
- Agree we have gone backwards more than forwards but he is trying to teach the team that you need to be able to defend as well as attack to win flags. Not surprising that it is taking time to sink in and hopefully last few weeks show that it is coming together
3. Strategies for Future Success
- See above re learning to defend as well as attack
- He is building a quality team around him across the football department in stead of having to control it all. Again the principles of any organisational success suggest this is the right path
- Is trying to build the right list for a flag after his predecessor did absolutely nothing in this regard for about 5 years
4. Who has improved
- Starting to see young guys like Jones, Armo and Eddy come through - again we had none of this under the previous coach
- Think that we will look back and say that guys like Dal, Milne and some others improved over a 2 year period as a result of developing a defensive side to their game
5. Improved our List
See above re young guys and getting King and MG (now as backup_ has been very important for us
6. Are we on Track
More difficult question as i am not confident that we are on track for a flag. However, believe strongly that if previous coach had stayed we would have been in worse shape as he would have continued his poor list renewal efforts which is critical for success today
Just trying to provide a bit of balance here as do feel that we all overrated the list a little and underestimated the sixe of the job facing Ross and think he needs a proper shot at proving his worth
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Saints43
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The initial post asked some interesting questions and the best you can add is "Bump".saintsRrising wrote:JeffDunne wrote:*bump*
The silence is deafening.
Bump...
Yes...not much Lyon bagging happening at present.....
We've won three in a row so why don't you answer them? You've had the thread bookmarked for a month haven't you?
Wouldn't it be easier if they just admitted they were wrong.saintsRrising wrote:JeffDunne wrote:*bump*
The silence is deafening.
Bump...
Yes...not much Lyon bagging happening at present.....
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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iwantmeseats
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JeffDunne
I'm more than happy to admit some of the doubts I had of him as a coach were wrong.joffaboy wrote:Wouldn't it be easier if they just admitted they were wrong.saintsRrising wrote:JeffDunne wrote:*bump*
The silence is deafening.
Bump...
Yes...not much Lyon bagging happening at present.....
The 2nd half of this season was always going to be a great test for him and so far he's showing he's up to it.
It was actually a joke.
Nobody needs to admit they were wrong or right. Its ALL in hindsight anyway.
A good example is that I gave up on this season and said we should take some very hard decisions and play kids and look to next season. I remember one poster with the initials JD that he hadn't given up on the season at that stage.
Who was right and wrong then?
As for bagging Lyon well I have always said i would reserve judgement to the end of the season but if pressed would say that he wasn't getting his message across to either the team of the fans before the last three weeks.
he has adressed that (so far) on the field and also with that Mark Robbo interview for the fans.
Time will tell - as soon as next Saturday night - if Ross is going to take us anywhere this season.
Nobody needs to admit they were wrong or right. Its ALL in hindsight anyway.
A good example is that I gave up on this season and said we should take some very hard decisions and play kids and look to next season. I remember one poster with the initials JD that he hadn't given up on the season at that stage.
Who was right and wrong then?
As for bagging Lyon well I have always said i would reserve judgement to the end of the season but if pressed would say that he wasn't getting his message across to either the team of the fans before the last three weeks.
he has adressed that (so far) on the field and also with that Mark Robbo interview for the fans.
Time will tell - as soon as next Saturday night - if Ross is going to take us anywhere this season.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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Teflon
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This must be killing you atm...hang in there....Saints43 wrote:The initial post asked some interesting questions and the best you can add is "Bump".saintsRrising wrote:JeffDunne wrote:*bump*
The silence is deafening.
Bump...
Yes...not much Lyon bagging happening at present.....
We've won three in a row so why don't you answer them? You've had the thread bookmarked for a month haven't you?
“Yeah….nah””
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Teflon
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Happy to put my hand up as a Lyon defender along with a few others.
Re reading this thread is interesting....so is the lack of some of the doomsayers on this site when we win.......where is Babba? Kunny? Dodg Everton today????...
...I woulda thought theyd be about for another crack at Ross.
Nice to hear JD starting to see wood for trees.....
Some will forever relsih doom and gloom and attempts to become the prophets others like to look at how we can get better.
For me I do believe in Lyon pure and simple I like the way he analyses a game - he understands its technicalities and that will ultimately translate IMO to a better educated St Kilda footy side that can win both attacking AND defensively in an environment thats about TEAM and not the previous reliance on individual brilliance.
Since hes joined out club Lyon has:
1. Improved our ruck stocks immeasurably (some of Kings taps last night were sublime...) - List improvement
2. Added some true talent with kids AND used the rookies - Geary, Eddy, Mqualter (who I doubted but who Lyon obviously thinks can play), Jones (massive improver) - List improvement
3. Recruited some good kids - Armo, Allen, Stevens (rate this guy), McEvoy (big rate)
4. Bought Luke Ball back from the death.
5. Infact improved injury management out of site - right people. He got em.
6. Kept Milne/Harvs, added some additional backline help in Dempster (many wont like it but hes been good and we got him for nought) - List improvement
of late......
7. Commenced adding midfield depth - Gram/Goddard/Fisher
8. Focussed on developing a much less predictable fwd set up with better use of Roo/Kosi IMHO (I like the way he's at times added Geary, Armo up there also).
9. Commenced finding out who will/wont make it. He has at least started to play Gwilt, Fergusons, Mqualters etc
He's no messiah Lyon (and we dont need another), hes made mistakes IMO also (FFS hes a rookie coach we must remember...), learnt from them and never become an irrational mess under pressure (unlike Mark Harvey....)
He can and will be a great coach and we will see why many peers when he was appointed said St kilda finally had the right man.
Support him - EVEN IF - we stumble along the way. Do an un-St Kilda like thing as supporters and hold your nerve.
Re reading this thread is interesting....so is the lack of some of the doomsayers on this site when we win.......where is Babba? Kunny? Dodg Everton today????...
...I woulda thought theyd be about for another crack at Ross.Nice to hear JD starting to see wood for trees.....
Some will forever relsih doom and gloom and attempts to become the prophets others like to look at how we can get better.
For me I do believe in Lyon pure and simple I like the way he analyses a game - he understands its technicalities and that will ultimately translate IMO to a better educated St Kilda footy side that can win both attacking AND defensively in an environment thats about TEAM and not the previous reliance on individual brilliance.
Since hes joined out club Lyon has:
1. Improved our ruck stocks immeasurably (some of Kings taps last night were sublime...) - List improvement
2. Added some true talent with kids AND used the rookies - Geary, Eddy, Mqualter (who I doubted but who Lyon obviously thinks can play), Jones (massive improver) - List improvement
3. Recruited some good kids - Armo, Allen, Stevens (rate this guy), McEvoy (big rate)
4. Bought Luke Ball back from the death.
5. Infact improved injury management out of site - right people. He got em.
6. Kept Milne/Harvs, added some additional backline help in Dempster (many wont like it but hes been good and we got him for nought) - List improvement
of late......
7. Commenced adding midfield depth - Gram/Goddard/Fisher
8. Focussed on developing a much less predictable fwd set up with better use of Roo/Kosi IMHO (I like the way he's at times added Geary, Armo up there also).
9. Commenced finding out who will/wont make it. He has at least started to play Gwilt, Fergusons, Mqualters etc
He's no messiah Lyon (and we dont need another), hes made mistakes IMO also (FFS hes a rookie coach we must remember...), learnt from them and never become an irrational mess under pressure (unlike Mark Harvey....)
He can and will be a great coach and we will see why many peers when he was appointed said St kilda finally had the right man.
Support him - EVEN IF - we stumble along the way. Do an un-St Kilda like thing as supporters and hold your nerve.
“Yeah….nah””
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WayneJudson42
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1- Added a defensive dimension to our style
2- Is a man of integrity
3- Is rebuilding the list
4- injecting youth
5- ruck stocks
6- is now becoming more attacking... now that defensive style is becoming entrenched
7- major palyers have re-signed contracts
8- is evolving the middle field with more pace and inside players
9- injury management.
Let him run his contract. The best is yet to come.
Don't care how he looks, or how he talks. As long as he can build a style to win fineals, I'm cool.
2- Is a man of integrity
3- Is rebuilding the list
4- injecting youth
5- ruck stocks
6- is now becoming more attacking... now that defensive style is becoming entrenched
7- major palyers have re-signed contracts
8- is evolving the middle field with more pace and inside players
9- injury management.
Let him run his contract. The best is yet to come.
Don't care how he looks, or how he talks. As long as he can build a style to win fineals, I'm cool.
The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
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markp
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Great post.Teflon wrote:Happy to put my hand up as a Lyon defender along with a few others.
Re reading this thread is interesting....so is the lack of some of the doomsayers on this site when we win.......where is Babba? Kunny? Dodg Everton today????...
Nice to hear JD starting to see wood for trees.....
Some will forever relsih doom and gloom and attempts to become the prophets others like to look at how we can get better.
For me I do believe in Lyon pure and simple I like the way he analyses a game - he understands its technicalities and that will ultimately translate IMO to a better educated St Kilda footy side that can win both attacking AND defensively in an environment thats about TEAM and not the previous reliance on individual brilliance.
Since hes joined out club Lyon has:
1. Improved our ruck stocks immeasurably (some of Kings taps last night were sublime...) - List improvement
2. Added some true talent with kids AND used the rookies - Geary, Eddy, Mqualter (who I doubted but who Lyon obviously thinks can play), Jones (massive improver) - List improvement
3. Recruited some good kids - Armo, Allen, Stevens (rate this guy), McEvoy (big rate)
4. Bought Luke Ball back from the death.
5. Infact improved injury management out of site - right people. He got em.
6. Kept Milne/Harvs, added some additional backline help in Dempster (many wont like it but hes been good and we got him for nought) - List improvement
of late......
7. Commenced adding midfield depth - Gram/Goddard/Fisher
8. Focussed on developing a much less predictable fwd set up with better use of Roo/Kosi IMHO (I like the way he's at times added Geary, Armo up there also).
9. Commenced finding out who will/wont make it. He has at least started to play Gwilt, Fergusons, Mqualters etc
He's no messiah Lyon (and we dont need another), hes made mistakes IMO also (FFS hes a rookie coach we must remember...), learnt from them and never become an irrational mess under pressure (unlike Mark Harvey....)
He can and will be a great coach and we will see why many peers when he was appointed said St kilda finally had the right man.
Support him - EVEN IF - we stumble along the way. Do an un-St Kilda like thing as supporters and hold your nerve.
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barneyboyz
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Ross was always on a flogging to nothing. I saw what GT. was trying to do, but last night the defensive game complemented the attacking game (something Sydney never really had), the boys were able to do both at the same time.
Enthusiasm has created this and finally understanding that we can play as attacking football all day long, provided we are accountable too and don't forget about fitness, this is improving the whole time.
Ross has always known what he has wanted to do, sure he has made mistakes, but he (as other coaches) has to rely on a fair amount of luck at times too.
Supporters (Saints at least), will get frustrated when things appear to go backwards, but this was always going to happen to us, such was Thommo's grip on us, I just hope the latest legal issues might finally bury him so we can move on.
Ross Lyon has my full support, I can see the light in the near distance, I hope you can too
Enthusiasm has created this and finally understanding that we can play as attacking football all day long, provided we are accountable too and don't forget about fitness, this is improving the whole time.
Ross has always known what he has wanted to do, sure he has made mistakes, but he (as other coaches) has to rely on a fair amount of luck at times too.
Supporters (Saints at least), will get frustrated when things appear to go backwards, but this was always going to happen to us, such was Thommo's grip on us, I just hope the latest legal issues might finally bury him so we can move on.
Ross Lyon has my full support, I can see the light in the near distance, I hope you can too
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