where is jarryd Allen at?

[fonz_#15]

last night Allen had 80% game time for only four possessions and only 2 effective, he contributed nothing by the way of scoreboard pressure despite playiong deep at times.

i am not being critical (and don't like to be with young players) i am just stating the facts. The question is do we play him for the rest of the season despite doing very little, or do we send him back to the 2's to teach him how to beat an opponent and kick some goals?

the way i see it, despite statistics i would keep him in the side as he takes a tall defender and frees up kosi to play as a second ruck and gives him a little more freedom to push forward when playing in the ruck.

from this moment on i would only play 1 of king and gardiner, keep Allen and let kosi roam as it is proving to be the way he plays his best footy. Kosi seems to have a very strong fitness base (something he may have lacked in the past due to injuries) and i feel he contributes most with brief spurts in the ruck and then pushing forward.

This makes Allen an important piece of the puzzle because he frees up kosi because he is big and strong enoough to warrant a competent defender regardless of his output, however a potential negative of playing the kid when he is seeing very little of the ball is that he may lose confidence and doubt his ability if he is not getting near it.

I think Ross should back ther kid and highlight his importance to our structure and hopefully he can step up and be a strong contributor on our run home.

what are your thoughts?

[HarveysDeciple]

Would probably lose his spot if Michael Gardiner gets back to full fitness.

I like Allen, he is a real prospect but probably needs some confidence in the twos after a couple of quiet games.
No harm in that he can go back kick a few and knock on the door again.

[Winmar7Fan]

Yeah Fonz I was thinking about him last night after the game still early days finding his feet i suppose but going on last night he was totally lost.

[plugger66]

Depending on today at Scorps you would think Allen and Jimmy will get a rest for 2 of either Bakes, MG and Scheider.

[fonz_#15]

Yeah Fonz I was thinking about him last night after the game still early days finding his feet i suppose but going on last night he was totally lost.

i still think his presence is important..all 22 players cant dominate (yet they can all contribute) and i think allen really frees up kosi to do what he does best which has shown in the last 2 games.

for that reason i would keep him in the side for a few more weeks, and if he is still offering little then we must send him back to casey.

either way, i feel he is one for the future.

[Dazvolt]

This is intresting. Although he didn't get much of the ball he competes well and did bring the ball to ground a few time. I think he is good for the structure and can play a role in bringing the small forwards into the game. Can't remember his oponent damaging us with constant rebounding out of our fwd line. Does work hard and thats the basis of Ross's theory.

[RBnW]

last night Allen had 80% game time for only four possessions and only 2 effective, he contributed nothing by the way of scoreboard pressure despite playiong deep at times.

i am not being critical (and don't like to be with young players) i am just stating the facts. The question is do we play him for the rest of the season despite doing very little, or do we send him back to the 2's to teach him how to beat an opponent and kick some goals?

the way i see it, despite statistics i would keep him in the side as he takes a tall defender and frees up kosi to play as a second ruck and gives him a little more freedom to push forward when playing in the ruck.

from this moment on i would only play 1 of king and gardiner, keep Allen and let kosi roam as it is proving to be the way he plays his best footy. Kosi seems to have a very strong fitness base (something he may have lacked in the past due to injuries) and i feel he contributes most with brief spurts in the ruck and then pushing forward.

This makes Allen an important piece of the puzzle because he frees up kosi because he is big and strong enoough to warrant a competent defender regardless of his output, however a potential negative of playing the kid when he is seeing very little of the ball is that he may lose confidence and doubt his ability if he is not getting near it.

I think Ross should back ther kid and highlight his importance to our structure and hopefully he can step up and be a strong contributor on our run home.

what are your thoughts?

Good post, I think he is important to our stucture up forward we have looked better since he has been in, he doesnt get rebounded on and takes the 3rd tall defended....he has learn to find the footy at this level yet, I would like to see him in the team for an exstended run of games if we start to kick it to him that would help too, but he is contributing.....he could also play back and has to be a better option than Gwilt....he may end up as a CHB

[saintsRrising]

He has a future..no doubt....but I think it is time to send him back to Casey for the moment.

We face the Hawks next week and to win we need our best possible team....as they will be a lot more difficult to overcome than the Blues.


A good showing from MG would see him replacing Allen in the 22.

A good game and improved fitness may see Bakes replace Gwilt who is also struggling. L Fisher may also be a chance fora recall after several good games.

Eddy has shown enough to stay...and CJ is motoring along nicely.

Mini too is doing his job and should be retained as well.

[saintsrus]

Too much agreement on the forum lately, am I on the right site

[skeptic]

pbly lose his spot to C.Gardiner or Ferguson who are ahead of him as a forward (at this stage)

If we want to go taller as a team then M.Gardiner will take his spot otherwise Geary will get his spot to provide more run through the midfield or Baker as an extra defensive option

good kid with good prospects. Has had a crack and will be back

[To the top]

There is a factor called structure, and Allen played a part in that structure last night.

Obviously he is not going to be the first option when Riewoldt and Koschitzke are lurking around the forward line - but someone has to go with him.

Is athletic, can chase and can lock defenders in - which is imperative.

That said, when we were under stress in the last quarter and Carlton had pinged 4 in a row (6 to 1 from free kicks for the night. Obviously Pratt still has some of our money left!) taking control of the clearances, the most significant move for me was that King made his first appearance for the quarter - and we stabilised out of the middle and around the ball ups.

King put the ball to the advantage of our mid-fielders - as he did when on the ground throughout the night.

Gardiner also has this ability, as he has shown.

These 2 in tandem is the way to go - they compliment each other really well and maintain a ruck presence for us.

Koschitzke is adequate in the rucking contest - but is infinitely more valuable around the ground - and particularly deep in defence or attack when he can get a couple of paces off the contest and then hit it - his marking (and spoiling) in those circumstances is awseome.

Plus Koschitzke can "float" the ground, is improving the strength in his legs where his history says they have been under done, and can control good ball below his knees - a rare commodity for one of his stature.

In summary, Koschitzke is a wasted resource at full-forward (leaving an opening for Allen for periods of any game) is not to the standard of King or Gardiner in ruck work (where the game starts) and is best used as a mobile utility to compliment Riewoldt.

I see nothing wrong with a structure of Riewoldt, Koschitzke and Allen giving licence to Riewoldt and Koschitzke to position themselves to whatever benefit of the team and using Allen exactly as he was used last night.

And rucking King and Gardiner.

[Richter]

pbly lose his spot to C.Gardiner or Ferguson who are ahead of him as a forward (at this stage)

If we want to go taller as a team then M.Gardiner will take his spot otherwise Geary will get his spot to provide more run through the midfield or Baker as an extra defensive option

good kid with good prospects. Has had a crack and will be back

Hmmm, I agree with this last sentence.

This thread really cements that we have still not replaced Hamill. We need a medium CHF (who plays Tall and is tough)/third Tall (who can exert forward pressure and is ok with the ball on the ground).

Depsite glimpses from all three none of CG, MF or JA have really stepped up and made the spot their own.

It's an interesting question as to how to tinker with the structure.

1. Should we play 2 lumbering ruckmen in MG and SK? Neither offer anything around the ground IMO.

2. If we play one ruckman + Kosi then do we play 2 other Talls or should that spot go to a Schneider/X? Individually the small might offer more - especially if he can rotate through the midfield - but that affects the structure - and means that if we get an injury to any of Roo/Kosi/King then we're stuffed and also makes it much more difficult for Roo to wander around the ground.

[saints11]

What I noticed is that was when the midfielders kicked it to him on the lead either Riewoldt Or Kosi went infront of him and took the mark

[Red]

The team is Roo focused. A couple of times last night players kicked the ball

to Roo with 2 players on him while Allen made a lead into the pocket and

was ignored. If teams want to double team Roo we should hurt them by

hitting the player onhis own.

[elphie]

already hypothesising about team structure for next wek and finally in enviable position with almost full list available soon.
FORWARD LINE:
Allen seems to have future with marking pressure but time to go back to Magoos as shown out in fast game last night. Who is available to replace him like for like? Of course, depends on Casey game but......
Can we recall M.GARDINER? use him as resting marking forward more often than not and leaving KOSI in follower role when KING rested.
Can we think of recalling C.GARDINER? use him as lead-up and drop ROO to goalsquarish? or too much of a sacrifice?

so much choice.......
any clues out there guys?

or just go small and bring in SCHNEIDS? but really need to have someone contesting mark and our crumbing is important and just about got it right last night. isn't there any other strong, physical type who can apply forward marking pressure?????? oh...who's that FRASER guy?

[SaintWodonga]

Has a future, but needs to go back to Casey I think. Bring in MG, leave Kosi down forward.

[perfectionist]

Likely to keep his spot as Michael Gardiner is not a replacement and would unbalance the forward line. Remember, Allen is replacing Fraser. The other Gardiner is simply no good.

Allen's going to have learn in the big time, because he can take a mark, but is slow.

If posters elsewhere are right, and Fev loves the club so much, perhaps he'll play for the minimum amount. I said to ditch Fraser two years ago and get him when we could have, but Thomas did not want him. A bloke who kicks straight has no place in a Saints side!

[Quixote]

Good thread.

My two cents is that we need only one (1) of King or MG in the team, and could possible rotate the two for freshness.

Also, we need an Allen or, I think from next week, Ferguson down forward for structure.

Like giving Kosi room to run and be in the ruck. He was BOG last night for mine in this role. Don't leave him up the ground as a leading forward because he aint one. He is a utility, a genuine swingman, and I'm happiest when I see him pulling in marks all over the ground.

[bigcarl]

it's hard to argue that he should play this week given his performance last night.

dropping him will, however, reduce our flexibility.

we'll be unable to play riewoldt on the wing (where he has won us matches recently) or kosi in the ruck (where he's been similarly impressive) because doing so will leave us a key forward short.

i'm also not convinced there's room for king, gardiner and kosi all in the same side. makes us look a little sluggish on the ball.

it's a hard one, but ross seems to have some of the answers these days.

[redwhite&blackblood]

I say leave the kid in. But we need to look to use him more as a lead up target. The only player who will come in and take his place should be Gtrain. He could also be a option for play in the backline?

[saints11]

I say leave the kid in. But we need to look to use him more as a lead up target. The only player who will come in and take his place should be Gtrain. He could also be a option for play in the backline?

So would I we should have at least 3 talls

[maverick]

Spot on with regards to sturcute in my opinion.
He didn't do much last night, nor last week, but he is important currently as we need another TALL, not medium like Ferg or C Gardiner to compete with Roo and on occasions Kosi.

Think the structure is right with one of King or MG in the ruck with Kosi playing ruck / forward. Gives us more run and runs Kosi into confidence and form.

If Allen doesn't work out we may need Gilbert to go down there, but that can only happen if Gwilt holds his spot or Miles takes a step...

[mad saint guy]

I'd like to get MG back and have Gilbert provide the third tall option when needed.

Allen has a future, but it seems we're having one last crack at the finals and right now he's not doing much to earn a spot while we've got Roo and Kosi firing.

I think Allen just needs to work on his fitness, trim down a bit and keep on playing as the primary target at Casey.

B: Gilbert, Hudghton, Goddard
HB: S.Fisher, Blake, Dempster
C: Gram, Hayes, Montagna
HF: Harvey, Riewoldt, Eddy
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Birss

Foll: King, Ball, Dal Santo
Int: M.Gardiner, Jones, McQualter, Armitage

If Gilbert is needed in defence then Gardiner and King can both sit in the goal square and command a tall defender.

[bigcarl]

I'd like to get MG back and have Gilbert provide the third tall option when needed.

not the worst suggestion.

who would come into the backline to cover for him and, presumably, gwilt? xavier and raphael?

[mad saint guy]

I'd like to get MG back and have Gilbert provide the third tall option when needed.

not the worst suggestion.

who would come into the backline to cover for him and, presumably, gwilt? xavier and raphael?

With Max, Blake, Goddard and Chips in the team they would be able to cover opposition talls easily. Alternately Goddard or Fisher could even pinch-hit up forward.