GT wins on both counts ...

[stinger]

FWIW I reckon the club had assumed that GT wasn't expecting to get any rec leave

GT only made something of it after he got sacked without being told the reason

IMO the club was never going to win unless it could produce a signed contract from 2001 to the effect that GT was a contractor and not an employee, and therefore wasn't entitled to any leave

The club and its lawyers knew it couldn't do this. Which means that one of ony two points of interest to emerge from this tawdry business is the mystery of why the club chose to fight the case rather than settle

The other point of interest is the acknowledged fact that the Board refused to give GT the reasons for his sacking. This was presumably on legal advice (because any attempt to tie the sacking to GT's performance would be contestable at law). Still, it is yet another odd feature of a singularly odd chain of events

Otherwise, the outcome of the case has no particular interest from a footballing point of view and we need to move on

you are spot on...i could have saved the club a heap of money in legal costs .....and a lot of face.....they were never going to win....

[rodgerfox]

So, does anyone know why GT was sacked?

[Eastern]

So, does anyone know why GT was sacked?

Probably no-one on here does or ever will know the answer to that question. Time for us all to move on !!

[markp]

So, does anyone know why GT was sacked?

Probably no-one on here does or ever will know the answer to that question. Time for us all to move on !!

Most have... some never will.

[saintwill66]

If memory serves me right it was stated at the time that the reason Thomas was sacked was because he would not take direction from the Board in shedding some of his responsibilities - e.g. player contracts, which were interfering with his primary role to coach the team. It was generally believed that Thomas was a control freak who strenuously resisted any attempts by club management to share in the off-field player matters. The transcript of the County Court decision last week makes reference to a break-down in relations between the coach and club management, as well as the Board. The business of the private loan arrangement between Butterrs and Thomas was bound to compromise relationships as well, and would have been a factor in the bad blood that developed in 2006.

As for the hush money, it has never been explained why the Board considered it necessary to buy Thomas' silence - the club owes the supporters an explanation.........

Thomas may well feel he had a right to take the club to the cleaners for holiday pay etc, and the court ruled in his favour. But I will forever regard his actions as despicable, dishonourable and disloyal, and quite the opposite to what a true St Kilda clubman, a former player no less, would do. He had been extremely well paid for the 5+ years he was senior coach and was not exactly left out in the cold on skid row!

[Teflon]

If memory serves me right it was stated at the time that the reason Thomas was sacked was because he would not take direction from the Board in shedding some of his responsibilities - e.g. player contracts, which were interfering with his primary role to coach the team. It was generally believed that Thomas was a control freak who strenuously resisted any attempts by club management to share in the off-field player matters. The transcript of the County Court decision last week makes reference to a break-down in relations between the coach and club management, as well as the Board. The business of the private loan arrangement between Butterrs and Thomas was bound to compromise relationships as well, and would have been a factor in the bad blood that developed in 2006.

As for the hush money, it has never been explained why the Board considered it necessary to buy Thomas' silence - the club owes the supporters an explanation.........

Thomas may well feel he had a right to take the club to the cleaners for holiday pay etc, and the court ruled in his favour. But I will forever regard his actions as despicable, dishonourable and disloyal, and quite the opposite to what a true St Kilda clubman, a former player no less, would do. He had been extremely well paid for the 5+ years he was senior coach and was not exactly left out in the cold on skid row!

Yep well said Will.

Its concvenient for some but nice to forget that Rod Butters didnt sack Grant Thomas - the entire St Kilda Board did for the reasons you had stated.

Atilla had to go.

Shame the few cant let go....hey Dodg...

[WayneJudson42]

Ok, first post, so I'll jump in at the deep end

I have followed this club through thick and thin for almost 40 years.

I remeber my first game at Linton St, when we beat Carlton.

I was at VFL park when Young kicked 5 in the '72 Elimination final.

I was at Princes Park when Paul Callery swallowed his tongue and we came back and beat Howthorn.

I was stranded in the player's room at Vic Park, when the filth wanted to kill big Carl and Sidebottom.

I spent may a cold Sturday taking a pee in the toilets on the member's wing at Moorabbin (with no light biulbs).

I was standing 3 rows deep when Muir snapped Collins (another wasted year).

I remember when things were so bad, that we'd get excited when the Little League won at half time.

I rember Jeff Sarau and his twin Mark, who never got a game.

I remember us recruiting Kink, Moncreiff, Scratcher Neale, just to name a few.

Through it all... I'll be a Sainter until I stuck phat with the club I love... and will do so until I die.

All I have to say on this matter is this:

1- Both GT and RB should have offered to resign after the Blight stuff-up.

2- Given the so-called "process" in place... GT should never have been appointed coach in the first place. It should have been Conolly.

3- Legally, GT may have been enititled to the money, so good on him.

4- However, from a moral point of view, once he announced on radio that the whole appointment process was a sham, he lost ALL moral credibility and rights to make any further claim. He was well and truly well paid for his work and his lack of experience. And he got the job by a fraudulent process.

Ray Charles could have coached us to 2 prelims given the list we had.

And that's what really pi###es me off about the whole sordid mess.

St Kilda man... my left nut! Tell that to Cowboy, Lawrence, Breen and co, who copped it in the neck to save our club.

Yet this guy is happy to bleed $200k or so out of the club at a time when it needs it more than ever.

Perhaps if he had taken a pay cut and spent the surplus on the footy department, his legacy might have been grander.

Whilst starting out with good intentions, both he and RB stuffed it up. Pure and simple. And we the loyal members... and the new board are left to pick up the mess.

BTW, did he pay back the $15k fine? What a joke! He lost then, well and truly. Fancy coming out with that diatribe approaching a finals campaign. What a tool. What a distraction.

Bye bye GT and RB. May you both never come back. F*** u both!

Now let's get back to footy.

Go Saints!

[Teflon]

Welcome aboard Wayne.

Always nice to get some quality on the agenda...I mean Board...

FWIW I agree re both Butters/Thomas.They started out with noble intentions. Got a taste of power and notoriety running an AFL club. Got drunk on it. Fell out of love and we the members pay for it.

It will be interesting should Eade take the Dogs to a GF this year... I once asked Thomas (as he volunteered famously to step aside coaching St Kilda for a better credentialled candidate) would he step aside for a coach with AFL experience in Rodney Eade. He told me point blank "I dont think he's better credentialled than me".

That was 4 years ago. I was immediately concerned but also recognised at the time we needed some stability a St Kilda person could bring. The guy had coached Warnambool only FFS whether you liked Eade or not he DID have AFL experience and had previously demonstrated that tactically he knew the game at the highest level.......it spoke volumes.

Watching this year with interest.

[casey scorp]

So, does anyone know why GT was sacked?

For exactly the same reason he was appointed - his relationship with RB.

[Spinner]

Ok, first post, so I'll jump in at the deep end

I have followed this club through thick and thin for almost 40 years.

I remeber my first game at Linton St, when we beat Carlton.

I was at VFL park when Young kicked 5 in the '72 Elimination final.

I was at Princes Park when Paul Callery swallowed his tongue and we came back and beat Howthorn.

I was stranded in the player's room at Vic Park, when the filth wanted to kill big Carl and Sidebottom.

I spent may a cold Sturday taking a pee in the toilets on the member's wing at Moorabbin (with no light biulbs).

I was standing 3 rows deep when Muir snapped Collins (another wasted year).

I remember when things were so bad, that we'd get excited when the Little League won at half time.

I rember Jeff Sarau and his twin Mark, who never got a game.

I remember us recruiting Kink, Moncreiff, Scratcher Neale, just to name a few.

Through it all... I'll be a Sainter until I stuck phat with the club I love... and will do so until I die.

All I have to say on this matter is this:

1- Both GT and RB should have offered to resign after the Blight stuff-up.

2- Given the so-called "process" in place... GT should never have been appointed coach in the first place. It should have been Conolly.

3- Legally, GT may have been enititled to the money, so good on him.

4- However, from a moral point of view, once he announced on radio that the whole appointment process was a sham, he lost ALL moral credibility and rights to make any further claim. He was well and truly well paid for his work and his lack of experience. And he got the job by a fraudulent process.

Ray Charles could have coached us to 2 prelims given the list we had.

And that's what really pi###es me off about the whole sordid mess.

St Kilda man... my left nut! Tell that to Cowboy, Lawrence, Breen and co, who copped it in the neck to save our club.

Yet this guy is happy to bleed $200k or so out of the club at a time when it needs it more than ever.

Perhaps if he had taken a pay cut and spent the surplus on the footy department, his legacy might have been grander.

Whilst starting out with good intentions, both he and RB stuffed it up. Pure and simple. And we the loyal members... and the new board are left to pick up the mess.

BTW, did he pay back the $15k fine? What a joke! He lost then, well and truly. Fancy coming out with that diatribe approaching a finals campaign. What a tool. What a distraction.

Bye bye GT and RB. May you both never come back. F*** u both!

Now let's get back to footy.

Go Saints!

Best Post Ever.

[WayneJudson42]

Agree Teffers

That's when he began to lose me. I remember his promise to step aside also.

At this stage, the club should have been investigating every option incl Eade and Wallace.

I'm not one for conspiracies, but...

RB's best insurance to have his loan repaid would have been to keep GT gainfully employed.

I was also led to believe via a friend of Burke's wife that moves were afoot after the '05 prelim to get him out due to how things were being run.

However, nothing would be done out of respect for Harvey until he retired.

So, it came as no surprise when Burke was part of the new ticket.

Anywa, it's all done and dusted. I have no agenda, just like to take the emotion out of the discussions.

Some on here will never get over the anger that GT was sacked, and only a flag under Lyon will do. Then again, even if we win a flag, they'll get on and say: BUT if GT was still coach, we would have won three flags by now.

Who cares? Not me. It's just a game after all. More important things in life, like family and friends

[JeffDunne]

RB made the loan to GT around the same time as GT was appointed.

I'd suggest the loan had more to do with the appointment than the other way around.

I'm no fan of RB but even I would question the logic behind any suggestion he hired GT so the loan would be repaid.

I'd also question that was your first post on the forum.

[rodgerfox]

Ray Charles could have coached us to 2 prelims given the list we had.

<sigh>

[rodgerfox]

Some on here will never get over the anger that GT was sacked, and only a flag under Lyon will do. Then again, even if we win a flag, they'll get on and say: BUT if GT was still coach, we would have won three flags by now.

Who cares? Not me. It's just a game after all. More important things in life, like family and friends

For someone who doesn't care - why do you want to compare Lyon and Thomas after 5 years?

Why would you want to compare them at all?

[WayneJudson42]

Never stated that there was any logic in the appointment ?loan relationship. Just a thought. I could very well be way off track.

One thing you won't find me doing here is poncing around and talking crap like it's 100% gospel and taking the cowardly option of personally abusing people, like others do.

Yes, it was my first post JD

I'll put $1k on the table to back it up. Put up or shut up.

Or maybe, you can't handle when someone posts logically?

As for you Rodge...

Not comparing Lyon with GT.

Lyon got apponited based on his plan to lead us to the promised land.

He should be given time to prove what he can do. If players cannot execute the plan accordingly, he will make changes accordingly.

Your "sack Lyon" agenda is well know here. And I might add, you are entitled to your opinion.

What annoys me is that it took GT almost 3 years to get us into the finals, yet after less that 2 years, you constantly bag Ross Lyon. Perhaps allow him time to do it his way?

And I don't really want to get in the "who was the better coach" type of discussion. It's all over. GT's gone, and RL will be judged in good time.

However if the usual bullies want to jump on me... so be it. I'm a big boy

Yes, I love my club. But in the big scheme of things, it's not my life.

This doesn't preclude me from expressing my opnion, does it? Nor does it preclude you from replying.

[WayneJudson42]

"For someone who doesn't care - why do you want to compare Lyon and Thomas after 5 years?"

Sorry Rodge, I will clarify this comment...

I've been reading this forum for about 3 years now. Sometimes with amusement, sometimes with total disbelief.

This is the thread that got me fired up enough to sign on.

My comment was purely an obsevration based on the level of debate on this forum regarding the GT saga.

Based on those observations, I believe that some fans are so angry about GT, that whatever happens, they will find a way to justify their position.

This thread is a perfect example of this. Hence my comment about Lyon and GT.

Like I stated. Legally, he may have been entitled to the cash, but morally, he is not.

Just becuase the court agreed with him, does not make him the "innocent victim" that people make him out to be.

That's all.

[JeffDunne]

Put up or shut up that I question that was your first?

Another mind reader on Saintsational?

[WayneJudson42]

Yes, JD.

Your reply was pretty pbvious.

You questioned that this was my first post, didn't you?

Why would you do that?

The insinuation based on your reply is that prehaps I am another frequent poster that signed up on a new ID. Is that it?

If not, I'll apologise. But please, do clarify.

[rodgerfox]

Not comparing Lyon with GT.

Lyon got apponited based on his plan to lead us to the promised land.

He should be given time to prove what he can do. If players cannot execute the plan accordingly, he will make changes accordingly.

Your "sack Lyon" agenda is well know here. And I might add, you are entitled to your opinion.

What annoys me is that it took GT almost 3 years to get us into the finals, yet after less that 2 years, you constantly bag Ross Lyon. Perhaps allow him time to do it his way?

What is meant by your signature?


I think, you're full of shiit. You've raised GT and Lyon several times in your supposed first 3 posts.

My 'agenda'?? WTF isn't clear about my thoughts on Lyon??

How can I possibly make it any clearer?

I have no 'agenda'.

I don't think he's a good coach. I'm shiit scared that due to his poor coaching, very good players aren't performing, and that these same players will be discarded due to that.

Unless something drastic happens in the next 2 months - yes, he needs to be replaced.

Is that an 'Agenda'? Or simply an opinion?

An 'agenda' is defined as 'things to be done'. I aren't pushing anything to be done, I'm just offering my view.


We were improving under Thomas in his first 2 years. In Lyon's first 2 years, we are going backwards at a rapid rate.

When you take over a team with multiple AA players, who are entering their prime - you don't get a grace period like Dean Bailey would get at Melbourne.

So please, by all means join up and throw in your 2 cents - but don't patronise me.

[rodgerfox]

"For someone who doesn't care - why do you want to compare Lyon and Thomas after 5 years?"

Sorry Rodge, I will clarify this comment...

I've been reading this forum for about 3 years now. Sometimes with amusement, sometimes with total disbelief.

This is the thread that got me fired up enough to sign on.

My comment was purely an obsevration based on the level of debate on this forum regarding the GT saga.

Based on those observations, I believe that some fans are so angry about GT, that whatever happens, they will find a way to justify their position.

This thread is a perfect example of this. Hence my comment about Lyon and GT.

Like I stated. Legally, he may have been entitled to the cash, but morally, he is not.

Just becuase the court agreed with him, does not make him the "innocent victim" that people make him out to be.

That's all.

So why have you raised his coaching several times already?

[WayneJudson42]

Aah! Another Guru who insinuates that these are not my first few posts.

How dare I come here and express my opinions?

Let's all bow to the mighty Fox!

Same offer applies to you. Let's put $1k on the table and check the web stats.

Didn't take you long to start with the personal abuse did it?

Ironically, I agree about where we are heading, dude, so calm down.

Let's see what eventuates.

Glad to hear you don't have an agenda, and yes, your position is clear.

No arguments from me.

I stand by my sig. Needs time. If he fails, show him the door.

[rodgerfox]

Aah! Another Guru who insinuates that these are not my first few posts.

How dare I come here and express my opinions?

Let's all bow to the mighty Fox!

Same offer applies to you. Let's put $1k on the table and check the web stats.

Didn't take you long to start with the personal abuse did it?

Ironically, I agree about where we are heading, dude, so calm down.

Let's see what eventuates.

Glad to hear you don't have an agenda, and yes, your position is clear.

No arguments from me.

I stand by my sig. Needs time. If he fails, show him the door.

Oh great. Another hypocritical, sarcastic smart arse joins SS!

Welcome aboard!! You'll fit right in.

[JeffDunne]

You questioned that this was my first post, didn't you?

Yes I did.

Why would you do that?

Call it a hunch.

The insinuation based on your reply is that prehaps I am another frequent poster that signed up on a new ID. Is that it?

Who said anything about 'frequent'?

Now I'm even more suss.

If not, I'll apologise. But please, do clarify.

Apologise for what?

That I'm suss that you're new here?

Or that you're stupid enough to bet on what I'm thinking?

[Spinner]

Aah! Another Guru who insinuates that these are not my first few posts.

How dare I come here and express my opinions?

Let's all bow to the mighty Fox!

Same offer applies to you. Let's put $1k on the table and check the web stats.

Didn't take you long to start with the personal abuse did it?

Ironically, I agree about where we are heading, dude, so calm down.

Let's see what eventuates.

Glad to hear you don't have an agenda, and yes, your position is clear.

No arguments from me.

I stand by my sig. Needs time. If he fails, show him the door.

Teffers?

[GrumpyOne]

Ray Charles could have coached us to 2 prelims given the list we had.

<sigh>

Given his performance in The Blues Brothers, I reckon he could have too.