GT wins on both counts ...

[plugger66]

done and dusted and let's hope we can now put the whole sorry mess behind us and play finals this year.

Exactly. Nothing more needs to be said.

[saintwill66]

One thing that gets me in this whole debacle is that GT considered himself an "employee". If I remember right Thomas was on the Board as Director of football when Blight was coach, and deftly positioned himself to take over as coach when Blight was sacked.

Thomas was St Kilda, and by all accounts nothing of consequence was ever decided without his imprimatur.

In the modern era appointment as a Head AFL coach surely entails round the clock 52 weeks of the year duty, and the salary package is appropriately based on that premise. Annual holidays.........who are you kidding!!

It therefore amuses me that GT felt he was entitled to payment for leave that he didn't take while he was coach.

It is generally accepted that GT was the single most dominant personality at St Kilda, taking responsibility for everything except putting out the wheelie bins on Sunday night. No wonder he didn't take holidays, for one thing he considered himself completely indispensable, and it follows that he'd be scared stiff that he might be sacked in his absence. In football politics you're always likely to get knifed in the back.......

I find it sad that this "loyal" servant, one who bleeds for his club, who was very generously remunerated for his service to the club, and who thereby gained a profile enabling him to pursue a career in the media, after all of that can so voraciously sue his club for further financial gain.

As a financial member of St Kilda going back decades I regard this as the most despicable disgusting and disloyal and dishonourable act by any St Kilda clubman ever. Regardless of the legalities involved it is treacherous and morally corrupt and I hope the club shuts the door on him for good.

[stinger]

Good on him, if he was owed the money he deserves to be paid. Hopefully last chapter in all this crap...

Exactly. He was owed money, we have to pay him out.

That old (some current) members of the admnistration forced this mess is a disgrace.

Credit to GT for being a class act publicly - not once has he bagged the club, the players, RB or anyone else despite not being paid. I've got no question he bleeds St Kilda blood. But this payment was not about his love for the club.

It was about an employee who was fired (unfairly) and an employer who failed to cough up.

i agree with you.........he was always going to win.......

[plugger66]

One thing that gets me in this whole debacle is that GT considered himself an "employee". If I remember right Thomas was on the Board as Director of football when Blight was coach, and deftly positioned himself to take over as coach when Blight was sacked.

Thomas was St Kilda, and by all accounts nothing of consequence was ever decided without his imprimatur.

In the modern era appointment as a Head AFL coach surely entails round the clock 52 weeks of the year duty, and the salary package is appropriately based on that premise. Annual holidays.........who are you kidding!!

It therefore amuses me that GT felt he was entitled to payment for leave that he didn't take while he was coach.

It is generally accepted that GT was the single most dominant personality at St Kilda, taking responsibility for everything except putting out the wheelie bins on Sunday night. No wonder he didn't take holidays, for one thing he considered himself completely indispensable, and it follows that he'd be scared stiff that he might be sacked in his absence. In football politics you're always likely to get knifed in the back.......

I find it sad that this "loyal" servant, one who bleeds for his club, who was very generously remunerated for his service to the club, and who thereby gained a profile enabling him to pursue a career in the media, after all of that can so voraciously sue his club for further financial gain.

As a financial member of St Kilda going back decades I regard this as the most despicable disgusting and disloyal and dishonourable act by any St Kilda clubman ever. Regardless of the legalities involved it is treacherous and morally corrupt and I hope the club shuts the door on him for good.

So if you are owed money by your ex employer who sacked you even though you were doing a good job you would accept it. No one would but yep its GTs fault he was sacked and not paid correctly. Fancy wanting to look after your wife and 8 kids. Surely the club that sacked him is more important.

[Winmarvellous]

Thank God it's all over. Now GT is nothing but a commentator, and St Kilda as a whole can forget about him and move on. And if he ever fronts up to a social engagement, guess who I'd be hitting up for the drinks.

In reality, we had one of the best lists in the comp in GT's era, with a good mix of young and old. Injuries cruelled us, but that's footy. He didn't win a flag, so doesn't deserve any special recognition in my book. Just another of many coaches to pass through the turnsyles at Moorabin.

[plugger66]

Thank God it's all over. Now GT is nothing but a commentator, and St Kilda as a whole can forget about him and move on. And if he ever fronts up to a social engagement, guess who I'd be hitting up for the drinks.

In reality, we had one of the best lists in the comp in GT's era, with a good mix of young and old. Injuries cruelled us, but that's footy. He didn't win a flag, so doesn't deserve any special recognition in my book. Just another of many coaches to pass through the turnsyles at Moorabin.

Yep. Im with you.

[evertonfc]

One thing that gets me in this whole debacle is that GT considered himself an "employee". If I remember right Thomas was on the Board as Director of football when Blight was coach, and deftly positioned himself to take over as coach when Blight was sacked.

No, you don't remember correctly. Buttress asked Thomas to take over. Thomas wasn't expecting it.

And if you doubt that - and anyone who was on the inside of the club will verify the truth of that story - listen to the audio of GT's first press conference.

I find it sad that this "loyal" servant, one who bleeds for his club, who was very generously remunerated for his service to the club.

You're missing the point.

It doesn't matter whether we paid him well or not - the club made the deal.

If you're bitter about how much we paid him, talk to Rod Buttress. He offered him the terms.

[chook23]

Both RB and GT

Snake oil salesman....

would not trust either.

[Teflon]

Thank God it's all over. Now GT is nothing but a commentator, and St Kilda as a whole can forget about him and move on. And if he ever fronts up to a social engagement, guess who I'd be hitting up for the drinks.

In reality, we had one of the best lists in the comp in GT's era, with a good mix of young and old. Injuries cruelled us, but that's footy. He didn't win a flag, so doesn't deserve any special recognition in my book. Just another of many coaches to pass through the turnsyles at Moorabin.

You my friend have it in one.

The usual GT flogs will banter on - one has quite amazingly suggested that Ross Lyon should be p!ssed of also....WTF .... and what a joke. Ross Lyon would not and should not give a toss what fat, egomaniac ex St Kilda heroes who think themselves bigger than the club do or say.

The Board clearly knew theyd lose. They budgeted for a 278k loss - they aint gonna be far off that so let it go and let Grant have his LAST moment at the expense of the St Kilda FC.

He got his 200k - now he can fix up his loan to his "mate" for $1m....I mean he's an honourable man....and thats what "honourable men" do.......don't they?

[perfectionist]

The are a number of points.

First, for anyone still suffering under the delusion that rich people are any more competent than anyone else, this should finally shine light on this truth - it's just that they are more greedy. There was incompetence regarding the contract from day one which may have amounted to nothing had the Saints won the last four premierships and Thomas had then retired to Sussex to keep bees. As it turned out, the contracts have come under judicial scrutiny.

Second, where errors exist in contracts, then statutory provisions apply - to everybody. What usually happens with half a million of more contracts it that the all up figure is agreed and then the various components are worked back to arrive at a monthly (or whatever period) salary. This was never done, it seems.

Third, clearly there was great animosity between Thomas and Butterss and Fraser for rather a long time it seems AND during 2004 and 2005. Whether this had any carry over effect to our performance on field who knows, but it can't have helped.

Fourth, Thomas was offered $100,000 on termination NOT to do a number of things. This is astonishing for two reasons. First, that the club should feel itself in such a weak position that they needed to do it and second, that Thomas should be part of it. In effect, he was accepting payment for not having adverse discussions with the players and not to induce players away to another club. The idea that a recent coach would either think of doing this and worse except payment to persuade him not to, is monstrous.

Finally, what happens when an employer chooses to sack somebody before their contract expires is that they are paid out - to the cent. If they choose to bag their former employer or anyone else that's their right, but at least the club would have the high moral ground. Not here - no-one had any high moral ground just a lot of high dudgeon.

It would seem that we would have lost nothing had Bozo the Clown been Club President, George W Bush been CEO and Saddam Hussein been coach (and you know what happened to him!).

Just as well we have players with integrity, intellect and commitment!

[plugger66]

Thank God it's all over. Now GT . is nothing but a commentator, and St Kilda as a whole can forget about him and move on. And if he ever fronts up to a social engagement, guess who I'd be hitting up for the drinks.

In reality, we had one of the best lists in the comp in GT's era, with a good mix of young and old. Injuries cruelled us, but that's footy. He didn't win a flag, so doesn't deserve any special recognition in my book. Just another of many coaches to pass through the turnsyles at Moorabin.

You my friend have it in one.

The usual GT flogs will banter on - one has quite amazingly suggested that Ross Lyon should be p!ssed of also....WTF .... and what a joke. Ross Lyon would not and should not give a toss what fat, egomaniac ex St Kilda heroes who think themselves bigger than the club do or say.

The Board clearly knew theyd lose. They budgeted for a 278k loss - they aint gonna be far off that so let it go and let Grant have his LAST moment at the expense of the St Kilda FC.

He got his 200k - now he can fix up his loan to his "mate" for $1m....I mean he's an honourable man....and thats what "honourable men" do.......don't they?

It is amazing what we read into comments. Winmarvellous never made it personal but you had to. Gt got the money the court decided he deserved but you go personal.

[JeffDunne]

The idea that a recent coach would either think of doing this and worse except payment to persuade him not to, is monstrous.

Huh?

You make it sound as though he extorted money from the club when clearly from the court ruling it was offered as part of his termination settlement.

I'm not sure if there's any evidence to suggested he needed persuading.

[Teflon]

Thank God it's all over. Now GT . is nothing but a commentator, and St Kilda as a whole can forget about him and move on. And if he ever fronts up to a social engagement, guess who I'd be hitting up for the drinks.

In reality, we had one of the best lists in the comp in GT's era, with a good mix of young and old. Injuries cruelled us, but that's footy. He didn't win a flag, so doesn't deserve any special recognition in my book. Just another of many coaches to pass through the turnsyles at Moorabin.

You my friend have it in one.

The usual GT flogs will banter on - one has quite amazingly suggested that Ross Lyon should be p!ssed of also....WTF .... and what a joke. Ross Lyon would not and should not give a toss what fat, egomaniac ex St Kilda heroes who think themselves bigger than the club do or say.

The Board clearly knew theyd lose. They budgeted for a 278k loss - they aint gonna be far off that so let it go and let Grant have his LAST moment at the expense of the St Kilda FC.

He got his 200k - now he can fix up his loan to his "mate" for $1m....I mean he's an honourable man....and thats what "honourable men" do.......don't they?

It is amazing what we read into comments. Winmarvellous never made it personal but you had to. Gt got the money the court decided he deserved but you go personal.

GT got his money - I got an opinion. You dont like it? stiff shyte.

As for your "I got personal" drivel - if that post is considered "personal" you better shut this board down from what I just been reading.

Regardless, this board is full of "personal" you do it with every snide, pathetic attempt at sarcastic responses to others posts you give - and I note a lot of them.

F@rkn amazing how quickly some climb the mountain of righteousness....unbelievable hypocrites....

[plugger66]

Thank God it's all over. Now GT . is nothing but a commentator, and St Kilda as a whole can forget about him and move on. And if he ever fronts up to a social engagement, guess who I'd be hitting up for the drinks.

In reality, we had one of the best lists in the comp in GT's era, with a good mix of young and old. Injuries cruelled us, but that's footy. He didn't win a flag, so doesn't deserve any special recognition in my book. Just another of many coaches to pass through the turnsyles at Moorabin.

You my friend have it in one.

The usual GT flogs will banter on - one has quite amazingly suggested that Ross Lyon should be p!ssed of also....WTF .... and what a joke. Ross Lyon would not and should not give a toss what fat, egomaniac ex St Kilda heroes who think themselves bigger than the club do or say.

The Board clearly knew theyd lose. They budgeted for a 278k loss - they aint gonna be far off that so let it go and let Grant have his LAST moment at the expense of the St Kilda FC.

He got his 200k - now he can fix up his loan to his "mate" for $1m....I mean he's an honourable man....and thats what "honourable men" do.......don't they?

It is amazing what we read into comments. Winmarvellous never made it personal but you had to. Gt got the money the court decided he deserved but you go personal.

GT got his money - I got an opinion. You dont like it? stiff shyte.

As for your "I got personal" drivel - if that post is considered "personal" you better shut this board down from what I just been reading.

Regardless, this board is full of "personal" you do it with every snide, pathetic attempt at sarcastic responses to others posts you give - and I note a lot of them.

F@rkn amazing how quickly some climb the mountain of righteousness....unbelievable hypocrites....

Thanks for that response.

[Teflon]

Thank God it's all over. Now GT . is nothing but a commentator, and St Kilda as a whole can forget about him and move on. And if he ever fronts up to a social engagement, guess who I'd be hitting up for the drinks.

In reality, we had one of the best lists in the comp in GT's era, with a good mix of young and old. Injuries cruelled us, but that's footy. He didn't win a flag, so doesn't deserve any special recognition in my book. Just another of many coaches to pass through the turnsyles at Moorabin.

You my friend have it in one.

The usual GT flogs will banter on - one has quite amazingly suggested that Ross Lyon should be p!ssed of also....WTF .... and what a joke. Ross Lyon would not and should not give a toss what fat, egomaniac ex St Kilda heroes who think themselves bigger than the club do or say.

The Board clearly knew theyd lose. They budgeted for a 278k loss - they aint gonna be far off that so let it go and let Grant have his LAST moment at the expense of the St Kilda FC.

He got his 200k - now he can fix up his loan to his "mate" for $1m....I mean he's an honourable man....and thats what "honourable men" do.......don't they?

It is amazing what we read into comments. Winmarvellous never made it personal but you had to. Gt got the money the court decided he deserved but you go personal.

GT got his money - I got an opinion. You dont like it? stiff shyte.

As for your "I got personal" drivel - if that post is considered "personal" you better shut this board down from what I just been reading.

Regardless, this board is full of "personal" you do it with every snide, pathetic attempt at sarcastic responses to others posts you give - and I note a lot of them.

F@rkn amazing how quickly some climb the mountain of righteousness....unbelievable hypocrites....

Thanks for that response.

My pleasure.

Thanks for your initial "opinion" on my "opinion".

Sorry it doesnt meet your lofty quality standards...

[Richter]

Also, AF clearly walked in as CEO at a time when relations between the coach and Board were at their nadir. As the court documents show he clearly tried to patch up relations between the two parties.

*cough*

What?

Archie Fraser tried to patch up relations?

Is this before or after he firstly helped knife GT & then begged to be part of Westaway's team when he realised how much people had turned on RB?

Read the court report Ev. Lines 43-45.

[perfectionist]

The idea that a recent coach would either think of doing this and worse except payment to persuade him not to, is monstrous.

Huh?

You make it sound as though he extorted money from the club when clearly from the court ruling it was offered as part of his termination settlement.

I'm not sure if there's any evidence to suggested he needed persuading.

If he had any integrity he would not have had a bar of such an agreement. The only conclusion one can draw is that the money was to persuade him from doing something that he would otherwise do. It's obvious.

What he should have done was simply say - you're sacking me, which is your right (as he did with Blight) so pay me the residual owing to me (as they did with Blight).

[philip]

done and dusted and let's hope we can now put the whole sorry mess behind us and play finals this year.

Exactly. Nothing more needs to be said.

Until Archie Fraser and John Gdanski are both gone, this club can not put this behind it.

philip

[JeffDunne]

If he had any integrity he would not have had a bar of such an agreement. The only conclusion one can draw is that the money was to persuade him from doing something that he would otherwise do. It's obvious.

The "only" conclusion?

lol

It's not uncommon to have confidentiality clauses as part of a termination agreement. It's a little unusual to have a 6 month timeline attached to payment, but being an AFL football coach is somewhat of an unusual situation.

Also, given the nature & timing of the discussion when this agreement was reached, I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest it's the "only" conclusion you could reach.

I'd like to know why the club, and Rod inparticular, were so concerned about what he might say.

What he should have done was simply say - you're sacking me, which is your right (as he did with Blight) so pay me the residual owing to me (as they did with Blight).

You're confusing what he and the club should have done.

He's just been told he's been sacked - and they wouldn't give him a reason.

What sort of reaction would you expect in those circumstances - understanding?

[Teflon]

The idea that a recent coach would either think of doing this and worse except payment to persuade him not to, is monstrous.

Huh?

You make it sound as though he extorted money from the club when clearly from the court ruling it was offered as part of his termination settlement.

I'm not sure if there's any evidence to suggested he needed persuading.

If he had any integrity he would not have had a bar of such an agreement. The only conclusion one can draw is that the money was to persuade him from doing something that he would otherwise do. It's obvious.

What he should have done was simply say - you're sacking me, which is your right (as he did with Blight) so pay me the residual owing to me (as they did with Blight).

There is no honour among thieves....

[Richter]

I don't want to be a broken record on this (I know I am)...

How AF helped knife GT yet then managed weasel his way into Westaway's plans is sickening.

I am a big supporter of Westaway - largely because he wasn't RB - but I hope he isn't as naive as he sometimes appears.

Archie's left one hell of a mess and quite frankly it's doing my head in to see that he's still there. I really wish - hell, I bloody PRAY - he was a gun CEO cutting new deals, putting his positive stamp on this club, getting this friggen club on the map - not settling for stalling membership numbers, declining crowd figures and B-grade sponsorships.

For the sake of the club that I dearly love, I hope he's replaced at season's end with someone who gives a **** about a) the everyday supporter and b) making us a powerhouse...instead of getting lost in the petty politics that seem to engulf all those who walk into administration posts at the club.

I'm sick of the marketing jibber and corporate bulls*** that our club has become a slave too - bring back some raw passion into the club and bring in people who care about the club so much that they want to get things done.

The wonderful days when passion ran footy clubs are gone Ev. Eddie McGuire is a great president because he's smart - not because he's passionate. Brian Waldron and Jim Watts were great administrators of the Saints because they are hard-nosed corporate administrators not because they love what they do.

Perhaps as equally as harsh as you are on AF I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt - I suppose that I feel a certain amount of sympathy for my countryman!

IMO the bigger picture can be construed as this...... AF comes in and sees a cancer at the heart of the club - based around the dodgy loan between coach and President and the souring of their relationship. Within 18 months he sees them both out of the club.........

Bottom line neither of us has the inside track on AF (well i don't anyhow! )

Let's hope that he can make something of this Frankston deal. Turning it into reality is the single biggest issue that I will judge him on.

[Enrico_Misso]

If GT "bleeds" so much for this club,
perhaps he can donate some of his "winnings" to some of his contemporaries who really bled for the Club.

The guys in the 70s-80s who only received a fraction of their due match payments as the club struggled to stay afloat.

Why not give something back?

[Sainternist]

The letters "GT" stand for "Giant Turd".
Enough said.

[perfectionist]

If he had any integrity he would not have had a bar of such an agreement. The only conclusion one can draw is that the money was to persuade him from doing something that he would otherwise do. It's obvious.

The "only" conclusion?

lol

It's not uncommon to have confidentiality clauses as part of a termination agreement. It's a little unusual to have a 6 month timeline attached to payment, but being an AFL football coach is somewhat of an unusual situation.

Also, given the nature & timing of the discussion when this agreement was reached, I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest it's the "only" conclusion you could reach.

I'd like to know why the club, and Rod inparticular, were so concerned about what he might say.

What he should have done was simply say - you're sacking me, which is your right (as he did with Blight) so pay me the residual owing to me (as they did with Blight).

You're confusing what he and the club should have done.

He's just been told he's been sacked - and they wouldn't give him a reason.

What sort of reaction would you expect in those circumstances - understanding?

So, you're rationalising his poor behaviour in response to the club's. Every coach who has ever been sacked feels bad about it, but this is the first I've heard of one who has entered an agreement with the club (doesn't matter who proposed it) which gave him $100,000 so that he wouldn't " have adverse discussions with the players" or, in other words, white ant the club.

No, I'm afraid there are no examples of good behaviour in this saga, not Thomas, not Butterss, not Fraser and goodness knows who else in the admin.

[evertonfc]

The wonderful days when passion ran footy clubs are gone Ev. Eddie McGuire is a great president because he's smart - not because he's passionate. Brian Waldron and Jim Watts were great administrators of the Saints because they are hard-nosed corporate administrators not because they love what they do.

Agree - but I think you need an element of passion to succeed in this industry. And, bizarre as it may seem, a little bit of charisma to inspire the masses.

Bottom line neither of us has the inside track on AF (well i don't anyhow!

I don't know Archie personally, but I know enough people within the club to know how it's being run.

Let's hope that he can make something of this Frankston deal. Turning it into reality is the single biggest issue that I will judge him on.

As will I. But I thought he was going to be judged on Moorabbin...eh...Casey Fields...eh...Frankston?

What's wrong with him; why can't he close a deal?

There's a myriad of other issues, too. Like I said, I wish he was a gun CEO, but he's not, and needs to be moved on.

Good CEOs are tough to get, but that doesn't mean you should settle for a dud.