Difference between 04 and 08

[3rd generation saint]

In 2004 we won the pre season cup, we were flying because we won all the games reasonably convincingly.
Our tackling was hard and we were hard and back then the pre season cup had a little status.
Back then we had hard nuts in the side like Thompson, Hamill, Gehrig, Powell, Guerra, Black.
These players went hard at the ball and hard at the opposition player with the ball, remember what Guerra did to Ling from the first bounce in the Final.
This year we won the pre season cup, ironically beating the same 4 teams we beat in 04.
However, since 04, no one really cares about the pre season anymore, we won two of those games with virtually the last kick of the game, and we have none of the tough nuts from 04 in the team, (Gehrig isn't the same player he was in 04).
We have too many front runners in the side who simply do not know how to tackle or put pressure on the opposition, they have been taught to zone off.
Because of the lack of hard nuts, we play soft physically and mentally.
In fact Lenny Hayes bump last night was the first I have seen all season, remember a few seasons ago Lenny was dislocating shoulders with his bumps.
We lack aggression, we lack determination, we lack belief and most important the whole club seems to lack ambition.
Whose fault is it, it's everybodies, we were so convinced we were going to win a premiership that we forgot that you have to keep adding and improving your list to do so.
We have stagnated to be once again the most discredited club in the competition and I hate that, I hate being pitied as St.Kilda supporter.
I want to be hated because my team is the dominant team in the competition.
Sorry, I am ranting but it is time we as supporters started asking more of our clubs leaders at all levels and got some acceptable answers instead of BS we keep getting fed.

[degruch]

In fact Lenny Hayes bump last night was the first I have seen all season, remember a few seasons ago Lenny was dislocating shoulders with his bumps.

Bally nearly sent someone off the park last week...it was a great bump!

Beside the point, I know. However, there's a massive difference in personnel between '04 and '08, as you noted. We really can't compare the two years, even though there are some key players still with us.

As you noted, some of the guys now missing were great onfield leaders, and they led by example. There's not a lot of that going on at the moment...who could coach our lot? They don't seem to have respect for themselves (as evidence by fronting up for their paycheck every week, despite their appalling efforts), their leaders (who set the example week after week - Hayes, Harvs, Roo) or their peers, and especially the coach.

Can't tell you what the immediate answer is, but I doubt wholesale coaching, club or player changes with make any difference whilst confidence is down like it is.

[SainterX]

These players went hard at the ball and hard at the opposition player with the ball, remember what Guerra did to Ling from the first bounce in the Final.

Wasnt that Stephen Powell? Or was he just the one who was caught on air telling Ling to "take that you red headed *$%^"?


Its weird how things go. In 2004 and 2005 we were the team cutting loose while everyone else tried to curtail us.

Now we are the ones trying to curtail teams while they try to cut loose.

[BackFromUSA]

in 2004 we played head over the ball or hit the man "unsociable footy" which is Buckley's term for footy with mongrel with bumps and tackles that hurt and we had almost a report a week ...

in 2008 we peel off, chase and tag and stand off rather than go hard ... and Sheedy calls us Marshmellows

[plugger66]

4 years.

[jonesy]

Ross Lyon?

[degruch]

Ross Lyon?

Ross Lyon, the board, player management and all but about 12 of the players. So, sure...must just be RL.

[jonesy]

Ross Lyon?

Ross Lyon, the board, player management and all but about 12 of the players. So, sure...must just be RL.

and what you said too

[Zippy]

These players went hard at the ball and hard at the opposition player with the ball, remember what Guerra did to Ling from the first bounce in the Final.

Wasnt that Stephen Powell? Or was he just the one who was caught on air telling Ling to "take that you red headed *$%^"?


Its weird how things go. In 2004 and 2005 we were the team cutting loose while everyone else tried to curtail us.

Now we are the ones trying to curtail teams while they try to cut loose.

It was definitely guerra who almost removed Ling's head (which would probably have improved his appearance no end). Powell was the guy recorded saying "you got what you f#!#ing deserved, you red-headed c@^t. I don't know who tackled him (the bump itself wasn't high - Ling was being tackled, and his head got pulled down into Guerra's path. If Guerra was Goods, he wouldn't have been suspended).

I remember that because it was a cute psychological move by Grant Thomas. Bomber Thompson had been making a big noise about Hamill chargin in off the line. so Hamill just romped near the centre square gathering attention from the cats, while Guerra went in instead.

[perfectionist]

It was Guerra and he got three weeks.

We had 16 players who played 20 or more games for the year. It was when Nick, Kosi, Luke and Lenny could kick to a teammate either foot at least forty metres - along with ten other players. In those terms, it was the best kicking side ever for the Saints - with the possible exception of a few weeks in 1997 when things started to roll. It all started to unravel with a string of injuries around the middle of the year after we beat Carlton by 150 goals: Leigh Fisher, Kosi, Matt Maguire (remember his bursts through the centre), Luke Penny and the final cut - Aaron Hamill in round 22. And yet, we almost made it through.

Geelong proved in 2006 that list means nothing if your best players are out (Bartel, Chapman). When they are all fit for the whole year, including finals, it's a cinch.

If we were really serious, we would start planning now for 2012. Whether Ross Lyon is the man I doubt. While I was never a great fan of his playing, I reckon Nathan Buckley has what it takes.

[matrix]

Back then we had hard nuts in the side like Thompson, Hamill, Gehrig, Powell, Guerra, Black.
These players went hard at the ball and hard at the opposition player with the ball, remember what Guerra did to Ling from the first bounce in the Final.

boy do we miss some hardness like the ones mentioned in that post....

[AP Erebus]

It was Guerra and he got three weeks.

We had 16 players who played 20 or more games for the year. It was when Nick, Kosi, Luke and Lenny could kick to a teammate either foot at least forty metres - along with ten other players. In those terms, it was the best kicking side ever for the Saints - with the possible exception of a few weeks in 1997 when things started to roll. It all started to unravel with a string of injuries around the middle of the year after we beat Carlton by 150 goals: Leigh Fisher, Kosi, Matt Maguire (remember his bursts through the centre), Luke Penny and the final cut - Aaron Hamill in round 22. And yet, we almost made it through.

Geelong proved in 2006 that list means nothing if your best players are out (Bartel, Chapman). When they are all fit for the whole year, including finals, it's a cinch.

If we were really serious, we would start planning now for 2012. Whether Ross Lyon is the man I doubt. While I was never a great fan of his playing, I reckon Nathan Buckley has what it takes.

Good post, especially on the skills (or lack of in 08)

[congorozides]

04 we had

• guerra
  powelly
  lenny
  sammy
  heath black

all hard nuts. we need some more pace and some more biff in the team.

now we have 1 maybe 2 hard nuts.

Proves GT is gay - he gets rid of guerra cos he has no hair and gets rid of heath black cos he fought with his love child.

[plugger66]

04 we had

• guerra
  powelly
  lenny
  sammy
  heath black

all hard nuts. we need some more pace and some more biff in the team.

now we have 1 maybe 2 hard nuts.

Proves GT is gay - he gets rid of guerra cos he has no hair and gets rid of heath black cos he fought with his love child.

What are you on because I think some of our players are taking it at the moment.

[congorozides]

04 we had

• guerra
  powelly
  lenny
  sammy
  heath black

all hard nuts. we need some more pace and some more biff in the team.

now we have 1 maybe 2 hard nuts.

Proves GT is gay - he gets rid of guerra cos he has no hair and gets rid of heath black cos he fought with his love child.

What are you on because I think some of our players are taking it at the moment.

well not ice because our boys certainly dont like they are on that! more likely the lads are on hash cookies they way they are playing. no intensity and ball watching. mreinds me of the main character in "the club".
our boys look like space cadets right now.

get cuzzy down next year. hell get em spruiked up!

[BigMart]

4 years is the difference between 04-08

[vacuous space]

Geelong proved in 2006 that list means nothing if your best players are out (Bartel, Chapman). When they are all fit for the whole year, including finals, it's a cinch.

Bartel missed one game in 06; Chapman missed none. Injury wasn't Geelong's problem in 06. The difference in 07 was they came back with a new attitude, a new gameplan and a new level of fitness and smashed the hell out of everyone. They even looked like they had fun doing it.

[Dark Days]

Some of the players have big fat head