Butters Fault really

[saintsRrising]

Yes 100% Butterss fault.

If he had not given the coaching job to a mate and then covered it up in sham process....we would still have a very good list....

Instead the said mate looked good for a while with a list boosted by the Blight Bulge group of players.

As this Blight Bulge group thinned...and the resultant bungled trades and draft picks bit the liit....the Butterss mate left us with a list in sad decline that needs new blood and re-building.

[Spinner]

Never part of the group that were struggling in financial's???

The only thing that Melb, NM and WB all have in common is that they recieve money from the AFL to stay afloat. If you were really serious you would've mentioned Rich, Carlscum,Geelong and Hawthorn who have all "struggling in financials"
Besides which did you even bother reading the OP It was about Butterss sacking GT.

LOL....Your comparing St Kilda's finacial history to that of the above teams....Laughable. Clearly displaying your nativity and blindness to substantial football issues.

And CLEARLY, the OP portrays Buterss employing Ross Lyon as coach....Rather than the sacking of GT. Or once again, do you only see what you want to see.....Once again I suggest a GT specific forum for yourself, might save an abundance of time rather than scrolling through countless unrelated St Kilda threads.....

Even more to the point? Does Ross Lyon not being a great coach make Grant Thomas a good coach? Rather, it seems you are convinced that the success of the board in appointing a successful coach has a bearing on the performance rating of Grant Thomas.....Which is lubricious.

And even more to the point of your last post - You voted for Westaway because he was an alternative, rather than an improvement. Which is just stupid reasoning.

[plugger66]

Yes 100% Butterss fault.

If he had not given the coaching job to a mate and then covered it up in sham process....we would still have a very good list....

Instead the said mate looked good for a while with a list boosted by the Blight Bulge group of players.

As this Blight Bulge group thinned...and the resultant bungled trades and draft picks bit the liit....the Butterss mate left us with a list in sad decline that needs new blood and re-building.

You are getting very close to being a B4E clone. I didnt know that 22 year old stars in 2006 decline to average players at 24-25. That is also GT fault.

[mischa]

LOL....Your comparing St Kilda's finacial history to that of the above teams....Laughable. Clearly displaying your nativity and blindness to substantial football issues.
A whole pile of goobeledegook
And even more to the point of your last post - You voted for Westaway because he was an alternative, rather than an improvement. Which is just stupid reasoning.

What's laughable is you thinking STK only has "struggling in financials" in common with Melb, NM and WB. A ludicrous, but not surprising accusation Repeat Richmond, Carlsum, Geelong and Hawthorn in the not too distant past have struggled with debt and revenue. Just like us. Fact.
The OP was opining the fact that we removed a "good coach" for an unknown who has been anything but successful and blaming fickle "supporters" like yourself in part, for the decision.
Westaway was much more than just an altternative. Butterss at the end was a complete and utter disaster
1. Sacking a three times finals coach
2. Failing to secure a major sponsor after all the others dropped off
3. Neglecting funding of the football department
4. Showing up drunk and disoriented to club functions

"Nativity"LOL

[aussierules0k]

[Mr Magic]

"Nativity"LOL

Fancy you laughing at someone else's spelling mistake Miskha.
At least he spells people's nicknames correctly in his sig!
And it's not like you haven't been told before either is it?

[aussierules0k]

[karnaby]

Yes 100% Butterss fault.

If he had not given the coaching job to a mate and then covered it up in sham process....we would still have a very good list....

Instead the said mate looked good for a while with a list boosted by the Blight Bulge group of players.

As this Blight Bulge group thinned...and the resultant bungled trades and draft picks bit the liit....the Butterss mate left us with a list in sad decline that needs new blood and re-building.

Actually if we're going to do some looking in the rear view mirror I'd say this is close to the mark. (& unlike someone else I do note the bolded part!!)

Frankly I'd also like to blame Butterss for letting GT get out of control, having made him coach he should have made certain that that was what he did, but what occurred was that he was allowed/encouraged to multiskill so the club could save money. [Also FWIW saving money & paying 99.999% of the TPP (which I know is contradictory) is why we didn't fill the last 1 or 2 spots on the list, or never had a full compliment of rookies.]

In his early days GT said that the way to ensure continued success was to continually get the best kids available - in my mind failing to do that was probably his single greatest failure!

As for RL I hope he wakes up bloddy soon & starts turning the list over, he's got a season & a half to set a new direction for the club. I would imagine the success of that will go a long way to determining his longer term future at the club.

[sunsaint]

Same old same old.
The fact that RL is coaching StKilda is NOT his fault.
He was employed on the strength of his presentation and plan.
Whether YOU like it or not he was employed with an agenda and has a mandate to implement it. Stop wasting time venting your spleen here and put it to good use and track down Buterss/Walls telephone number and harrass them.

Everyone is jumping up and down saying it is the coach who has the problem with the players.
I disagree 100%
Under Thomas we had a play on at all costs running game plan.
That got us so far. But we had no defensive side, for the most part we probably still dont.

So I put it to all you RL haters, here we have 2008, most likely Harveys last year, wouldnt you as a playing group in one of your many emergency bonding sessions hatch a plan to ignore the coach and start playing the way you want. If you start winning what is the coach going to do? Go into post match interviews and say the group isnt playing according to instructions. This club has had many player revolts in its past what is so different now?

? ? ?

In a word, Lazy players. Happy to collect their paychecks with "heads big as puddings". Go through the motions and not put in the hard yards required today... It is the players that todays game has past not the coach, and its the "name" players the coach cant drop, because if he did he really would be lynched. Who saw G Ablett on the footy show state that he had to get better, train harder, work harder, to go to the next level. Geelong and Stkilda started the rebuilding process at the same time, and can anyone say in that period NDS has gone to the next level to match Ablett?

I spend way to much time here reading cra* from posters about how Rix is a hack, C Jones is a hack, Birss is a hack, Blake etc etc etc
the fact is these types of players get games because the coach(both RL & GT) knows they have worked hard and deserve spots and on game day will follow instructon and give their all.

It is not Lyons' fault. Just as it was not Thomas' fault.
Roo...kick some goals
Kosi, stop getting injured.
Clarkes...ditto.
NDS gain a yard, get tougher get accountable & kick some goals
Hayes, Schneider & Ball kick some goals.
Goddard get accountable & kick some goals.
Max, Fisher, Dempster, get some running offense
Oh and Gehrig, please come back we need your goals.

[JeffDunne]

The fact that RL is coaching StKilda is NOT his fault.

WTF?

[SainterX]

Forget about GT. People who back RL need to realise one thing however.

Mick Malthouse took a loser side, with a line up worse than ours is to a grand final in 02.
A coach does not need to do everything, but he should be able to get the best out of his players, and give them an extra edge like Malthouse did.

RL looks uninspired most of the time, where is his edge? Is it boring opponents to sleep?

[brown-coat]

The fact that RL is coaching StKilda is NOT his fault.

WTF?

hahahahaha

[Cairnsman]

Yeah the Collingwood football club cherish those grand final defeats of 02 and 03.

I love reminiscing with my Collingwood supporter mates about those magnificent grand final defeats.

[SainterX]

Anyone would have lost to the Lions those years Cairnsman. The very fact that Malthouse brought the best out of a mostly average list is the point I am trying to make.
Coaches don't play, but they can still make a big difference.

Ross Lyon has a job to do. He is not just there to look good.

[Cairnsman]

Anyone would have lost to the Lions those years Cairnsman. The very fact that Malthouse brought the best out of a mostly average list is the point I am trying to make.
Coaches don't play, but they can still make a big difference.

Ross Lyon has a job to do. He is not just there to look good.

Yeah sorry SainterX I'm deliberately not buying into the whole coach thing mainly because I believe something else is the problem however I aggree with your point about the coach but just can't believe it is all his problem.

[SainterX]

It is not the coaches problem alone, everyone has a role in this. However I think the point some are trying to stress in these forums is that it is much easier to rebuild a coaching list then a playing one.

[Cairnsman]

It is not the coaches problem alone, everyone has a role in this. However I think the point some are trying to stress in these forums is that it is much easier to rebuild a coaching list then a playing one.

My belief is that neither the coaches or the players need rebuilding.

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Sure there needs to be some improvement on both sides but right at the momement and from reading between the lines of what is happening at the club is that politics is having the biggest affect to game day success. There is clearly instability in the club and the players are mainly stirring the pot. I mean how does a team go from winning 7 out 11 matches last season to the then playing the way they are now. Not much has changed since the back half of last season and all this crap about the game passing us by is bulls***. We wouldn't have been able to perform like we did in the last half of last season otherwise cause it hasn't change that much in 12 months.

[Spinner]

LOL....Your comparing St Kilda's finacial history to that of the above teams....Laughable. Clearly displaying your nativity and blindness to substantial football issues.
A whole pile of goobeledegook
And even more to the point of your last post - You voted for Westaway because he was an alternative, rather than an improvement. Which is just stupid reasoning.

What's laughable is you thinking STK only has "struggling in financials" in common with Melb, NM and WB. A ludicrous, but not surprising accusation Repeat Richmond, Carlsum, Geelong and Hawthorn in the not too distant past have struggled with debt and revenue. Just like us. Fact.
The OP was opining the fact that we removed a "good coach" for an unknown who has been anything but successful and blaming fickle "supporters" like yourself in part, for the decision.
Westaway was much more than just an altternative. Butterss at the end was a complete and utter disaster
1. Sacking a three times finals coach
2. Failing to secure a major sponsor after all the others dropped off
3. Neglecting funding of the football department
4. Showing up drunk and disoriented to club functions

"Nativity"LOL

No....Thats just what your GT blinkered eyes tell you to believe.

You may know the poster is ProGT but no where did he initially state that a good coach was removed....

So in between seasons, so far the difference between "good" and "bad" is somewhere between 8th and 9th on the ladder.....???? How do you become a mediocre coach?

....And sorry for using the spell check on my mozilla....Must have selected the wrong spelling option.

Didn't know you scrolled this forum looking for spelling mistakes as well as GT related topics. I'm actually starting to think you must be related to him.

So just so we are clear, I don't hate the block personally.....Just don't rate him at a coach. Regardless of what the record books say.....I was at those games during his reign.....And we are light years away from the teams of Brisbane and Port Adelaide.....And more recently Geelong and Hawthorn alike.

But you be happy with losing two prelims in consecutive years.....Awesome stuff.

[karnaby]

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

&

<snip> Blind Freddy can tell that there is an attitute problem with some players. We've all heard the rumours and frankly those players should be sacked immediately. Walked to the door by the scruff of the neck.

One of these propositions is not consistent with the other.

FWIW I think the idea of contemplating sacking player/s on the basis of RUMOR is ridiculous. Frankly even if someone did have a gripe I couldn't care less, it's up to the club to judge them, not emotional, disenchanted supporters.

[Cairnsman]

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

&

<snip> Blind Freddy can tell that there is an attitute problem with some players. We've all heard the rumours and frankly those players should be sacked immediately. Walked to the door by the scruff of the neck.

One of these propositions is not consistent with the other.

FWIW I think the idea of contemplating sacking player/s on the basis of RUMOR is ridiculous. Frankly even if someone did have a gripe I couldn't care less, it's up to the club to judge them, not emotional, disenchanted supporters.

Who suggested a player be sacked on the basis of a rumor. I said if the rumour was true, 'if' being the operative word.

What is meant by the term bath water is that you don't go and sack the coach, sack the assistant coaches, sack a heap of players. My proposition is you hold your nerve and if, if there are players that are white anting the club then you move them on.

not emotional, not disenchanted, just having a play on a computer.

[desertsaint]

Ever heard of the word... Loyalty? Google it.

mugabe is currently saying the same thing - common call by inept leaders that know they're stuffed unless they can count on blind loyalty!

[karnaby]

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

&

<snip> Blind Freddy can tell that there is an attitute problem with some players. We've all heard the rumours and frankly those players should be sacked immediately. Walked to the door by the scruff of the neck.

One of these propositions is not consistent with the other.

FWIW I think the idea of contemplating sacking player/s on the basis of RUMOR is ridiculous. Frankly even if someone did have a gripe I couldn't care less, it's up to the club to judge them, not emotional, disenchanted supporters.

Who suggested a player be sacked on the basis of a rumor. I said if the rumour was true, 'if' being the operative word.

What is meant by the term bath water is that you don't go and sack the coach, sack the assistant coaches, sack a heap of players. My proposition is you hold your nerve and if, if there are players that are white anting the club then you move them on.

not emotional, not disenchanted, just having a play on a computer.

cairnsman, neither you nor I nor anyone else really KNOWS anything about whiteanting. Frankly the more talk there is about it & the more people treat rumors as if they were facts the more destabilising it is for the club.

In your last post you wrote "I said if the rumour was true, 'if' being the operative word." In the highlighted part above "If" is NOT mentioned, very clearly you suggested sacking players on the basis of rumor alone.

[Cairnsman]

You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

&

<snip> Blind Freddy can tell that there is an attitute problem with some players. We've all heard the rumours and frankly those players should be sacked immediately. Walked to the door by the scruff of the neck.

One of these propositions is not consistent with the other.

FWIW I think the idea of contemplating sacking player/s on the basis of RUMOR is ridiculous. Frankly even if someone did have a gripe I couldn't care less, it's up to the club to judge them, not emotional, disenchanted supporters.

Who suggested a player be sacked on the basis of a rumor. I said if the rumour was true, 'if' being the operative word.

What is meant by the term bath water is that you don't go and sack the coach, sack the assistant coaches, sack a heap of players. My proposition is you hold your nerve and if, if there are players that are white anting the club then you move them on.

not emotional, not disenchanted, just having a play on a computer.

cairnsman, neither you nor I nor anyone else really KNOWS anything about whiteanting. Frankly the more talk there is about it & the more people treat rumors as if they were facts the more destabilising it is for the club.

In your last post you wrote "I said if the rumour was true, 'if' being the operative word." In the highlighted part above "If" is NOT mentioned, very clearly you suggested sacking players on the basis of rumor alone.

My appologies Karnaby, I was refering to something I wrote in another post about the 'if' bit. I've posted a bit today so it's getting a little confusing but I will clarify things by saying that if, if the rumours are true because that is what I really mean.

Also I'm confused about your argument about people treating rumours as truth also because 99% of this forum is baseless. The forum is a place of entertainment for footy nuts. Not much is real, it's cyberspace. Pushing that argument would be like claiming everybody on here should stop going on as though they know more about footy than an AFL coach.

[Teflon]

Yes 100% Butterss fault.

If he had not given the coaching job to a mate and then covered it up in sham process....we would still have a very good list....

Instead the said mate looked good for a while with a list boosted by the Blight Bulge group of players.

As this Blight Bulge group thinned...and the resultant bungled trades and draft picks bit the liit....the Butterss mate left us with a list in sad decline that needs new blood and re-building.

You are getting very close to being a B4E clone. I didnt know that 22 year old stars in 2006 decline to average players at 24-25. That is also GT fault.

And you sound remarkably like Dodgy....perceptions a funny thing..

[aussierules0k]