If we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it

[meher baba]

Did lyon see himself becoming a senior coach one day?

Almost certainly

But it was the act of a rational man to be extremely wary about his big, perhap only shot the top to involve taking over at a club with which he had no prior involvement, where the club president and the former coach had had a massive and highly-publicised falling out over non-football matters, where the former coach had been sacked after three successive finals appearances (which indicated that expectations of the new coach were going to be dangerously high, and where many of the key players were known to be strong supporters of the ousted coach

A ron barassi or a leigh matthews would have felt trepidation about taking us on in 2006, let alone a shy, soft-spoken assistant coach from another city

[matrix]

We describe him as a number 8 bat who has been made captain and bats himself at 4.

he'll be 12th man soon if he isnt careful

[Goody]

Rl is in his 2nd year, is he on a 3 year deal, if so what would it cost to pay him out and go again.
If this happened who is available to fill his boots?
Are we looking at Bond,Longmire, ect, I cant see us employing another coach from another side who is out of contract.
Whats out there??
VFL?
SAFL?
WAFL?
Odonell
Collingwood asst coach (Bluey)
????

[saintsRrising]

i knew the wallsy connection and that they are mates, but i didnt realize that RL hadnt considered (or should i say applied) for the job.

so basically wallsy got in his ear, pumped him up and said i think u should go apply for the job?


otherwise i presume that he would still be with the swannies?.

Well matrixcutter if you believe MB's spin on things yes.


However amongst the so called facts of the process to get a new coach MB has left some information out.

1/ For example one of the panel members charged with selecting the new head coach was Ross Smith a former St Kilda Captain and Coach....a champion of the club.

Ross has also been active in other aspects of the club recently....and Ross is nobodies stooge.

2/ that even MB's preferred candidate Matthews could nothing to have retrospectively fixed up the inept drafting and trading of the preceeding several years. matthews like RL would have just had the two draft periods...with the same shortfall in young talent. It basically takes 3 years or more for most kids to come through and be useful. The Selwoods of the world are few and far between.

3/ People are head hunted for jobs all the time. Nothingr remarkable about it.

Another fact not raised is how GT got the job....

3/ That both RB and GT have admitted since GT left that the process used to get GT was a sham..with the other coaches that were interviewed were NEVER a chance. The job was given to GT by his mate RB...with other mates in MK supporting it. This FACT admitted by both GT and RB makes me laugh about posters complaining about Walls recommending Lyon for the job......but who at the same time are more than happy with how GT got the job. Go figure eh?????

At least Lyon had to be vetted by other persons such as Ross Smith.

[matrix]

thanks sRr....
maybe some facts at last and not opinions.
much appreciated

[JeffDunne]

So the hiring of GT was a scam but the hiring of Lyon was all above board?

Interesting.

Could someone more informed on the 'process' than me please explain the differences in the two 'processes'?

[JeffDunne]

maybe some facts at last and not opinions.

No seriously . . . that's funny.

[Iceman234]

i knew the wallsy connection and that they are mates, but i didnt realize that RL hadnt considered (or should i say applied) for the job.

so basically wallsy got in his ear, pumped him up and said i think u should go apply for the job?


otherwise i presume that he would still be with the swannies?.

Well matrixcutter if you believe MB's spin on things yes.


However amongst the so called facts of the process to get a new coach MB has left some information out.

1/ For example one of the panel members charged with selecting the new head coach was Ross Smith a former St Kilda Captain and Coach....a champion of the club.

Ross has also been active in other aspects of the club recently....and Ross is nobodies stooge.

2/ that even MB's preferred candidate Matthews could nothing to have retrospectively fixed up the inept drafting and trading of the preceeding several years. matthews like RL would have just had the two draft periods...with the same shortfall in young talent. It basically takes 3 years or more for most kids to come through and be useful. The Selwoods of the world are few and far between.

3/ People are head hunted for jobs all the time. Nothingr remarkable about it.

Another fact not raised is how GT got the job....

3/ That both RB and GT have admitted since GT left that the process used to get GT was a sham..with the other coaches that were interviewed were NEVER a chance. The job was given to GT by his mate RB...with other mates in MK supporting it. This FACT admitted by both GT and RB makes me laugh about posters complaining about Walls recommending Lyon for the job......but who at the same time are more than happy with how GT got the job. Go figure eh?????

At least Lyon had to be vetted by other persons such as Ross Smith.

So Ross Lyon was head hunted?

If so, why?

He was an assistant coach who had not really been touted as a senior coach.

Or I didn't think he had been.

RL had to go through the process, but if you know the process as I think you do, you known that it can be heavily weighted by certain panel members.

One such panel member who still defends him is a high profile media person, Walls.

It has nothing to do with GT FFS, it has to do with our current situation and our last 18 months.

We are going backwards.


I don't want GT back, and I don't particularly want to see us sack yet another coach.

But I've said for a fair while on here now, RL does not seem to be able to communicate with the group.

[saintsRrising]

thanks sRr....
maybe some facts at last and not opinions.
much appreciated

Well opinions are fine too.

I have no problem people bagging Lyon...or pushing others to be our coach. Matthews or who ever.....

No problem either people posting that another choice would be better....or not.

That is what a forum is for.

[matrix]

maybe some facts at last and not opinions.

No seriously . . . that's funny.

opps sorry jeff, theres actually meant to be a at the end

[saintsRrising]

Spot the difference:

Process A. A person is given the head coach coaches job by agreement witha known mate. A farcial interview process is then created to interview other candidates even though the job has been awarded. Other candidates were not advised that GT had the job and that thry had no chance.

GT and RB have both since admitted to this.

Process B.
A number of candidates were interviewed.
As I understand it a very large list of candidates were drawn up. I don't know how many applied and how many were asked to apply. I suspect that the short list that were interviewed probably all put their hats in the ring.
From recollection after the initial interviews it is reported that Walls asked Lyon to apply. I do not know what the exact process was.
However Lyon had to satisfy all members of the selection panel including Ross Smith.

Now can you spot the difference between Process A and B???

So it is simply wrong for anyone to say that Walls gave he job to Lyon.

Was Walls biased in his view on RL. Well yes he could well of been. I personally do not know. But Lyon also had to convinve the other panel members that he was a better candidate that the other shortlisted ones such as Longmire.


Would we have been better off if one if the other two got the jib instead???

Who knows??? I mean like many I was happy with the media reports on the other tw at the time.

[saintsRrising]

, but if you know the process as I think you do, you known that it can be heavily weighted by certain panel members.

.

Yes fully agree that yes it can be.

But at least in this scenario Walls had to convince the other panel members.

Yes he may have buggered things up.....

But no...he did not simply give the job to a mate.

[Iceman234]

Spot the difference:

Process A. A person is given the head coach coaches job by agreement witha known mate. A farcial interview process is then created to interview other candidates even though the job has been awarded. Other candidates were not advised that GT had the job and that thry had no chance.

GT and RB have both since admitted to this.

Process B.
A number of candidates were interviewed.
As I understand it a very large list of candidates were drawn up. I don't know how many applied and how many were asked to apply. I suspect that the short list that were interviewed probably all put their hats in the ring.
From recollection after the initial interviews it is reported that Walls asked Lyon to apply. I do not know what the exact process was.
However Lyon had to satisfy all members of the selection panel including Ross Smith.

Now can you spot the difference between Process A and B???

So it is simply wrong for anyone to say that Walls gave he job to Lyon.

Was Walls biased in his view on RL. Well yes he could well of been. I personally do not know. But Lyon also had to convinve the other panel members that he was a better candidate that the other shortlisted ones such as Longmire.


Would we have been better off if one if the other two got the jib instead???

Who knows??? I mean like many I was happy with the media reports on the other tw at the time.

I think the difference there is the fact that RL was not initially a candidate who wanted to put in for the job.

I do not know – I was not part of the process but perception is that he was not interested in the job, but was “askedâ€

[JeffDunne]

I did ask for someone informed on the subject.

[JeffDunne]

Iceman, Walls not only asked him to apply, but Ross was staying with Rob while the interview process was happening.

[Iceman234]

I did ask for someone informed on the subject.

Sorry JD I always state I am just a supporter and member, can only bow to your position.......

Clearly you are more informed....

[Iceman234]

Iceman, Walls not only asked him to apply, but Ross was staying with Rob while the interview process was happening.

Oh, so you agree with me????

[saintsRrising]

Iceman, Walls not only asked him to apply, but Ross was staying with Rob while the interview process was happening.

Now that is interesting.

Was that before or after Ross stayed at SOS's place...????

Reports at the time had Ross staying with Stephen Silvagni, a close friend of Lyon's from Carlton days.

Indeed it was said by some that part of the attraction at the time of getting Lyon was that this would also get SOS. Now whether getting SOS was actually a good thing or not is another discussion.


If he was staying with Walls at the same time of the interviews then that would certainly have been inappropriate.

[JeffDunne]

I did ask for someone informed on the subject.

Sorry JD I always state I am just a supporter and member, can only bow to your position.......

Clearly you are more informed....

If I thought I was more informed why would have asked what I asked?

Anyhow, sorry my bad, I should have quoted the post I was responding too.


sRr . . . as usual, no clue but you'll make up whatever suits your argument.

[rodgerfox]

I personally don't think how you get a coach really matters.

It's what they do once you get them that is important.


Processess. Modern footy departments. Structures.

It's all bullshiit.


Footy is still as simple as it's always been. Get 22 players of reasonable quality - with a couple of genuine stars. That's all you need. Depth is a fallicy. It's your best 6 that win you the flag. Keep them fit and your bottom 6 just tag along for the ride. Get a coach who gets the best out of them, and you have a recipe for a flag.


Footy fans have been sucked in big time.

People seem more proud of having a 'modern footy dept' than actually winning games. We're getting brained every week - but hey, at least we have a modern footy dept!!

Who cares how we got Lyon. We got him. And it really looks like we made a mistake.

Who cares how we got GT. We got him, and it was a fantastic decision.


I'll let you all in on a little secret.....

Each year, 15 clubs with a modern footy dept fail.
Each year, 15 clubs with a great process for getting a new coach fail.
Each year a club with a gun top 6, few injuries and a coach that gets the best of his team wins the flag.


Footy is simple. The 'modern footy fan' has been sucked in.

[saintsRrising]

sRr . . . as usual, no clue but you'll make up whatever suits your argument.

I once again note that JeffDunne has stated that I make things up.


This is what JeffDune wrote..

Iceman, Walls not only asked him to apply, but Ross was staying with Rob while the interview process was happening. .

I wrote that I thought he was staying with SOS...

Now unless Walls was shacked up with SOS too.....JeffDunne's accusation that I make up whatever suits my argument is to me looking a lot more like JeffDunne has made things up to suit his argument.



http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 72,00.html

Silvagni thrilled for mate Lyon
Mark Stevens in Dublin | November 06, 2006 12:00am, Herald Sun


WHEN Ross Lyon was swotting up for his job interview at St Kilda, his old mate Stephen Silvagni wasn't far away.

Silvagni was as close as the next room, as Lyon was a guest of his family. "My wife fed him a couple of times, dressed him and made sure he was all right," a laughing Silvagni said yesterday.
Jo, a well-known fashion expert, obviously did a lot right. With a snappy suit and a neat knot in his tie, Lyon lobbed at Moorabbin and rocked the socks off the panel headhunting a new coach.
Silvagni was thrilled for his close friend but also felt for the other candidates Chris Bond and John Longmire.
"It was difficult for me. I know Chris Bond really well and he's a senior coach in the making. So is John Longmire," Silvagni said.
"Ross sort of came from left field . . . a fair way back."
Even before Lyon officially won the job, media speculation was rife that Silvagni would be part of the package.

Last week it was finally given the rubber stamp. Although Silvagni went through the "process" like everyone else, he is so respected by Lyon he was always odds-on to get a full-time assistant's gig.
.


JD..this is now the second time within a week you have accussed me of making things up/fabricatiing things etc up.....and this is now the second time as well that I have then demonstrated that what you have said is so is not when you stated you had made a post that you never did. ie that you were the one who fabricated.

The title of this thread was :
If we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it

I suggest you take note..and if you kep accussing me of "making things up", "fabricating" etc...I will just have to keep putting the facts of the matter up for others to make their own minds up about who is the one "making things up"

Is it JeffDunne or is it I?


PS..I have no problems with the "as usual, no clue" as it is forum and posters are free to post opinions and make there own value judgements etc.

[JeffDunne]

While I agree to an extent Rodger, I do believe it is in every members best interests to hold those charged with running the club accountable.

I, and many others, feel we are paying the price for a president that put his own personal interests ahead of the clubs. Fortunately the members reacted (imo 12 months too late) and we saw probably for the first time ever a St Klida membership prepared to act on what they saw as blatant self-interest.

Lyon and his band of merry mates I think are seen by many as a product of this self-interest. We were promised the best and what we got was a rag tag bunch of novices and coaching box that resembles a social club.

I mean Tony Elshaugh FFS!

This is the man that oversaw Carlton's list management under Pagan at Carlton.

But hey, according to Teffers, sRr, B4E and Throbbie Walls, we're in great hands.

[JeffDunne]

Actually sRr, I wasn't referring to just that one aspect but clearly from that article it was SOS who he was staying with that week.

But hey, I bet you’ll defend SOS's appointment as a result of a rigorous interview process too?

[rodgerfox]

sRr . . . as usual, no clue but you'll make up whatever suits your argument.

I once again note that JeffDunne has stated that I make things up.


This is what JeffDune wrote..

Who are you talking to SrR?

Are you aware of the concept of PMs?

[krabb]

You have to have a Coach that fits..

I dont think Ross Lyon does..

I could add the same thing for Terry Wallace at Richmond..he doesnt fit.

You have to win the players so they'll run through a brick wall for you....and all the mumbo jumbo crapolla that gets touted about what else you need is all rubbish.

This is getting messy now..for many reasons...

How will our moving to Frankston benefit the Club?

Have we tried to amalgamate with Frankston VFA...if so what happened?

Why werent we aligned with Sandringham in the beginning?

Why wasnt the Kingston Council deal handled better?

Why was the GT mess allowed to linger...it should've been finalised before he left the Club.

Why does Robert Wall's opinion on anything matter?

Why is John Beveridge still involved part time in our recruiting?

Why dont we have more full time recruiters?

What exactly is our game plan...do we have one?

Whats our Club's vision for the next 10 years and beyond?