What has changed from 2nd half of last year?

[JonathonSmythe]

I am a new poster and have spent a bit of time reading the posts about what has gone wrong this year. The 2 main strands seem to be either to blame the players or to blame the coach. In my view we should also be giving some scrutiny the the new board and president!

We need to remember that basically this group of players made us very much a top 4 side until the year before last and but for bad luck with injuries would have taken us pretty close to a flag

We also need to give some credit to the coach. The second half of last season was actually not too bad followed by the best draft / trade period for many years plus other key changes including the recruitment of a highly regarded fitness head. At this point many of us were feeling good about the coach and the team and our prospects for 2008.

We have gone backwards since the end of last year despite an improved list on paper and improved position with injuries and I think it is simplistic to say that either the coach or the players are just not up to it.

I am surprised that there has been so little scrutiny of the end of season turmoil and new president and board in any of the debate. Is it possible that the changes have led to a coach that no longer has confidence that he has the support of the board and a disenchanted player group.

A few things to consider:

- There were definitely some good arguments that it was time for a change in the board but there is no doubt that the challenge was handled very poorly, showing no respect for the achievements of the previous board and creating uneccessary turmoil and pain

- 2 longstanding board members who came across from the old board (and who are rumoured to be very unpopular among the playing group) apparently actively worked to undermine the old board whilst they sat on it which would have earned the respect of noone inside the club

- Think back to the list of promises made by the new President that have and never will be delivered upon. For example
-- 3 or 4 sponsors were meant to be "in the bag". Where are they??
-- It was said that we would become 4th in terms of spending on the football department (suspect we are a long way from this and will never get close given our revenue base)

- There have been possible signs that the playing group were not at all impressed. Arguably the message from Roo at the AGM could be seen as telling the new board they needed to play as good a game as they talked. I am not sure they have played much of a game yet!

I am interested to hear the views of others. I am not sure all of the answers lie in blaming only the players or the coach given that both have shown they can do better. They say the fish rots from the head and ultimately that is the board and then the president.

[JeffDunne]

The second half of last season was actually not too bad . . .

That's what we're aiming for?

"Not too bad"?

[jill]

Let's just sack the new board, sack the coach & have a big player clean-out & start the whole ball rolling again

[JonathonSmythe]

I should be clearer - when i said "not to bad" I meant that the trajectory was good. First half of the year to get used to new coach and game plan, second half of the year marked improvement in form followed by a good offseason and some returning senior players. We all felt confident at that stage that club and coach was on right track

I wonder how much the new board (that did not appoint Lyon) plus the unusual football sub-committee (which sits over his shoulder) has impacted Lyon's confidence that we started to see in the second half last year

[JeffDunne]

You must have been watching a different 2007 to me.

The trajectory you speak of included a couple of good wins, a few laboured victories over teams that didn't want to win and some horrible last quarter fade outs.

Hardly anything to get excited by. If that's the best Ross can do, then God help us.

[The Peanut]

Let's just sack the new board, sack the coach & have a big player clean-out & start the whole ball rolling again

We as supporters do have a right to know what the board are doing but understand that we must often be left in the dark because if an announcement is made ... or just a rumour, the press will be turning it into gloom and doom and make matters worse.

However many of us do wonder what the board are thinking/doing about out current situation.

Not everybody who wants to discuss accountability are calling for sackings - sometimes we are just reacting to frustrations / hurt / disenchantment or calling for answers from a position of total disempowerment.

I too don’t have any answers … but I have heaps of questions and I do at times make some loose statements which comes from my exasperation.

Because the staff, players and management will be privy to a few more facts than the supporters are, I guess we will just have to weather the storm as they do their best to get us back on track. While that happens we may need to let off a little steam every now and again for our own sanity.

[The Doc]

- Think back to the list of promises made by the new President that have and never will be delivered upon. For example
-- 3 or 4 sponsors were meant to be "in the bag". Where are they??

Jeld-Wen and UD Trucks could be 2 of those.

[JonathonSmythe]

Any comments on board or president generally?

My question is whether there is a possibility that they may have destabilised things to an extent, impacting the confidence of the coach in particular.

[Teflon]

Welcome Jonathon.

I wasnt a huge wrap for a Borad change but understand that to remove the stigma from GT we needed change.

I dont agree the Board change was handled poorly and infact thought it was in the end quite bloodless (we managed to avoid embarrassing AGMS and votes etc as well as courts)

Nice to have you on the forum BTW.

[JonathonSmythe]

Thanks for the nice reply Teflon

[evertonfc]

You must have been watching a different 2007 to me.

The trajectory you speak of included a couple of good wins, a few laboured victories over teams that didn't want to win and some horrible last quarter fade outs.

Hardly anything to get excited by. If that's the best Ross can do, then God help us.

Everyone should read this post.

[degruch]

You must have been watching a different 2007 to me.

The trajectory you speak of included a couple of good wins, a few laboured victories over teams that didn't want to win and some horrible last quarter fade outs.

Hardly anything to get excited by. If that's the best Ross can do, then God help us.

Everyone should read this post.

Yeah, we won stuff and looked good...that's something to be ashamed of. So Jeff, you went into this season thinking we were gonna finish on the bottom, eh? Must be hard for you to continue propping the teams supporter base up like you do???

[JeffDunne]

Actually I was quite optimistic about our chances this season coming off the best pre-season in years (and I'm not talking about the plastic cup we won).

I saw little reason for us being in this postition less than half way through the year.

[degruch]

Actually I was quite optimistic about our chances this season coming off the best pre-season in years (and I'm not talking about the plastic cup we won).

I saw little reason for us being in this postition less than half way through the year.

Neither did anyone else...including RL, me thinks. Still, I'd rather be 5/5 after this weekend than 1/9. The result of this season so far ain't great, but it's nothing to freak out over either. Yes, there's a problem, can you honestly identify it? It could be the coach, it could be the player group, it's more likely to be a combo of the two, but I've no doubt steps are being made to address after last Sunday.

The most important this is, IT'S LESS THAN HALF WAY THROUGH THE YEAR.

[spert]

If a person who isn't into AFL, looked at the ladder, they would say "Carlton must be a better team than St.Kilda as they are above them on the ladder" can you imagine that a couple of years ago at this stage of the season -me neither. NAB cup form indicated that we should have had a pretty fair result so far, but it seems we are slipping gradually with no real indication that we will improve. It is a result of this:
1/ Poor recruiting over the last 5-6 years
2/ Poor player development over the last 5-6 years
3/ Board and coach disruptions (GT and RB etc etc)
4/ Questionable coaching this year.
5/ Some players not accepting the challenge to take the next step.

Solve all that instantly and you're a genius!

[JeffDunne]

IT'S LESS THAN HALF WAY THROUGH THE YEAR

Yes it is. So what?

I would be flabbergasted if we sacked Lyon now. As bad a job as he’s doing we need to see if he has what it takes.

However, I don’t see how that prevents anyone from critiquing his performance based on what we’ve seen so far.

[degruch]

If a person who isn't into AFL, looked at the ladder, they would say "Carlton must be a better team than St.Kilda as they are above them on the ladder" can you imagine that a couple of years ago at this stage of the season -me neither. NAB cup form indicated that we should have had a pretty fair result so far, but it seems we are slipping gradually with no real indication that we will improve. It is a result of this:
1/ Poor recruiting over the last 5-6 years
2/ Poor player development over the last 5-6 years
3/ Board and coach disruptions (GT and RB etc etc)
4/ Questionable coaching this year.
5/ Some players not accepting the challenge to take the next step.

Solve all that instantly and you're a genius!

BINGO! I can't tell you, so let me put my hand up and proudly state, 'I am not a genius'. I'm sure I'll be more enlightened by the end of the season to make a judgement though. Of course, if I sack the coach and being trade negotiations for all our key players immediately, I'd be far more enlightened, obviously (insert sarcasm here)!?!