Where are all the Lyon supporters now ?

[wolfpup]

How would a team maintain confidence when the leader of our club slags them off as soft?

In public.

Is that good man management strategy?

Hmm i remember timid tim said something similar in 1999, stating that the players had heads like pumpkins (dont remembeer the exact quote). I think the following week we lost to hawthorn after being miles and miles ahead in the second quarter. and we kind of went downhill from there for a while.

Anyways, not trolling or anything but we need our CONFIDENCE BACK!

I am truly baffled by our form slump. our stuttering play style is frustrating me and we are looking so SLOW when delivering through our midfield.

sundays loss was atrocious but i think our worst loss was the bulldogs loss where in the 2nd quarter we weren't HARD at the ball and the dogs attacked and harrassed and worried our midfielders into mistakes. why is this continuing, aren't our forwards presenting?

i cant believe that aussie jones and heath black have left such big holes that we cant fill with new players in the past few years?

i still believe we get the ball out of defence reasonably well, but our half back to midfield/CHF attack is not working for some reason. why the condidence slump?

[Saints43]

[timid tim said something similar in 1999, stating that the players had heads like pumpkins (dont remembeer the exact quote).

Boardinghouse puddings.

[degruch]

I think that was Saint 43, not me. I'm all up for the public spray...they deserve it.

BUT, I agree with what you're saying and it's the most appropriate response to the POOBAR's who started this thread...insinuating that there is a supporter base within the club that should be ashamed of supporting the coach, who is trying to pull a team of soft head-cases together.

The Bulldog's game was attrocious and really started what we are suffering from now. I, and many Saints supporters near me, we ready to tear Raph off the ground, throw on the jumper and have a crack ourselves, knowing that the flailing unco-orinated attempts we would put in (inevitably ending in death after some professional footy play hip and shouldered us off the park) would at least me an effort and thus, 500% better than what we were seeing.

Spraying Dal at the players exit didn't seem to have much affect (except for startling him a bit), as they're still a team of flash Harry's that can't and won't be coached. I feel sorry for RL, until he gets tough, I can't respect him much either, but at least I won't call for him to go until he's had a proper crack.

[SENsei]

how much of the form slump is to do with confidence?

A lot....and the coach has to wear the balme for that as motivating the players is clearly within his brief.

That would be very painful to wear. He's a big man.

[Buckets]

how much of the form slump is to do with confidence?

A lot....and the coach has to wear the balme for that as motivating the players is clearly within his brief.

That would be very painful to wear. He's a big man.

LMFAO very funny!

[JeffDunne]

...insinuating that there is a supporter base within the club that should be ashamed of supporting the coach

You couldn't be more wrong.

This thread was targeted at certain individuals who waged an online barrage of criticisms at the previous coach (and continue to do so). Some continue to stalk him today (and I'm not talking the online variety).

They were convinced that he wasn't getting the best out of the list and any coach with half a brain would have us winning flag after flag. They actually even went further than that with some suggesting he was trying to rip us off by receiving a bonus if he won two flags (the suggestion being that two flags at least was a monty)

Teflon if you hadn't guessed is one of those posters. The rest are conspicuous by their absence.

[degruch]

Oh, so there's history!

Well, never mind...I'm sorry to say that I reckon Tef might be right...it's GT's soft players RL has got to work with! Maybe the bedlam we've got now is a result of what happens when you remove a megalomanic from the helm!?!

GT's downfall was player management...he was too interested in their contracts and not interested enough in their fitness. Add to that, his only motivation for getting a flag was his own pocket, otherwise he'd have kept quiet post-sacking for the good of the club...IMO.

I was surprised when GT got the flick, but not flabbergasted, like I was when we offed Stan. Since Stan, we're on our 4th coach in 10 years...bollocks, innit? Wanna go 'round again?

[Dan Warna]

Oh, so there's history!

Well, never mind...I'm sorry to say that I reckon Tef might be right...it's GT's soft players RL has got to work with! Maybe the bedlam we've got now is a result of what happens when you remove a megalomanic from the helm!?!

GT's downfall was player management...he was too interested in their contracts and not interested enough in their fitness. Add to that, his only motivation for getting a flag was his own pocket, otherwise he'd have kept quiet post-sacking for the good of the club...IMO.

I was surprised when GT got the flick, but not flabbergasted, like I was when we offed Stan. Since Stan, we're on our 4th coach in 10 years...bollocks, innit? Wanna go 'round again?

funny how we were one of the better tackling sides, with one of the best defences pretty much top 3 for 04/05/06....

nothing soft with the side then.

[Buckets]

Oh, so there's history!

Well, never mind...I'm sorry to say that I reckon Tef might be right...it's GT's soft players RL has got to work with! Maybe the bedlam we've got now is a result of what happens when you remove a megalomanic from the helm!?!

GT's downfall was player management...he was too interested in their contracts and not interested enough in their fitness. Add to that, his only motivation for getting a flag was his own pocket, otherwise he'd have kept quiet post-sacking for the good of the club...IMO.

I was surprised when GT got the flick, but not flabbergasted, like I was when we offed Stan. Since Stan, we're on our 4th coach in 10 years...bollocks, innit? Wanna go 'round again?

funny how we were one of the better tackling sides, with one of the best defences pretty much top 3 for 04/05/06....

nothing soft with the side then.

But we were on the slide GT was the worst and its all his fault that we are where we are right now!

[degruch]

Oh, so there's history!

Well, never mind...I'm sorry to say that I reckon Tef might be right...it's GT's soft players RL has got to work with! Maybe the bedlam we've got now is a result of what happens when you remove a megalomanic from the helm!?!

GT's downfall was player management...he was too interested in their contracts and not interested enough in their fitness. Add to that, his only motivation for getting a flag was his own pocket, otherwise he'd have kept quiet post-sacking for the good of the club...IMO.

I was surprised when GT got the flick, but not flabbergasted, like I was when we offed Stan. Since Stan, we're on our 4th coach in 10 years...bollocks, innit? Wanna go 'round again?

funny how we were one of the better tackling sides, with one of the best defences pretty much top 3 for 04/05/06....

nothing soft with the side then.

And what happened to our brilliant defense? All out injured or retired. What happened to our tacklers...same thing. Now the others don't have GT telling 'em what time to get out of bed in the morning, they've gone off the rails!

[JeffDunne]

We can look back all we like and debate the merits of GT and his style, but proving GT wrong doesn't prove RL right.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Oh, so there's history!

Well, never mind...I'm sorry to say that I reckon Tef might be right...it's GT's soft players RL has got to work with! Maybe the bedlam we've got now is a result of what happens when you remove a megalomanic from the helm!?!

GT's downfall was player management...he was too interested in their contracts and not interested enough in their fitness. Add to that, his only motivation for getting a flag was his own pocket, otherwise he'd have kept quiet post-sacking for the good of the club...IMO.

I was surprised when GT got the flick, but not flabbergasted, like I was when we offed Stan. Since Stan, we're on our 4th coach in 10 years...bollocks, innit? Wanna go 'round again?

Ironically, I think a lot of Thomas' downfall came from not being stronger in his convictions when he first took up the job. That and being really stupid about his internal politics. Having a public feud with your boss is always a dubious career move.

I wasn't nearly as dissapointed when Thomas was let go as I was shocked when Alves was removed... I'd come to wonder if there weren't truth to the public view that Thomas wasn't the guy to get the job done. Perhaps he wasn't... but I wonder how much of the regression a lot of our players have displayed goes back to the loss of a leader they believed in, regardless of the skill and ability of his replacement. I wonder if perhaps the loss of the '07 and '08 seasons ends up being the price we pay for turning the club from a local-style empire boys club (under Butters and Thomas) into a professional organisation (under Footy First and currently Lyon)... that professional organisation better last...

Because it's already cold comfort.

[meher baba]

In relation to the earlier discussion of whether there is anyone on the forum seriously calling for Lyon to be sacked now.

I can put my hand up.

I'm sick of him slagging off the players. That should only come when he can put his hand on his heart and state that he has done 150% of what he can do to win games.

I can't see any signs that he is going to take us anywhere we want to go. I think even a caretaker coach - even, say, SOS - would be a better bet for the rest of the year.

[St DAC]

In relation to the earlier discussion of whether there is anyone on the forum seriously calling for Lyon to be sacked now.

I can put my hand up.

I'm sick of him slagging off the players. That should only come when he can put his hand on his heart and state that he has done 150% of what he can do to win games.

I can't see any signs that he is going to take us anywhere we want to go. I think even a caretaker coach - even, say, SOS - would be a better bet for the rest of the year.

You've never liked him, and have been bleating for his removal for weeks now. The man has a contract, and deserves to finish at least this year out. Who knows, he may make the hard decisions needed and turn it around. He at least deserves the chance to do so, and we'd be paying him anyway.

Of course, that wouldn't suit your agenda ...

Oh, BTW, he was right; the playing group were collectively soft yesterday.

[degruch]

Anyone remember in mid-2003, when Chocco shrugged his shoulders at a post match press conferance after a sizeable defeat and said, 'Well, at least it wasn't as bad as last week'. I LMAO and thought what a loser he was...then a couple weeks later, Port's soft performances turned around and they finished up the season pretty good. Alan Scott called for his head but the club persisted, the next year they shoved us out of the way to take the flag. Almost a carbon copy of this season. Lucky Port didn't get rid of him, eh?

[rodgerfox]

In relation to the earlier discussion of whether there is anyone on the forum seriously calling for Lyon to be sacked now.

I can put my hand up.

I'm sick of him slagging off the players. That should only come when he can put his hand on his heart and state that he has done 150% of what he can do to win games.

I can't see any signs that he is going to take us anywhere we want to go. I think even a caretaker coach - even, say, SOS - would be a better bet for the rest of the year.

You've never liked him, and have been bleating for his removal for weeks now. The man has a contract, and deserves to finish at least this year out. Who knows, he may make the hard decisions needed and turn it around. He at least deserves the chance to do so, and we'd be paying him anyway.

Of course, that wouldn't suit your agenda ...

Oh, BTW, he was right; the playing group were collectively soft yesterday.

To be fair, as open as Meher Baba has been - I dno't think I'd really call it an agenda. More of an opinion.


On a side note, what may be a concern is that Lyon, a guy who quite clearly has not been able to get any improvement from anyone on our list is going to make 'hard calls' at season's end.

Is he really capable of making these decisions? Would we potentially be trading guys who are very good players, then sacking Lyon a year later only to be left with half a list?

[Dan Warna]

Nothign to do with GT

its the same players who have had their skills drop.

Dal Santo is where he was 2 years ago, monty is hwere he was 2 years ago, riewoldt and kosi are going backwards, Goddard is about where he was 2 years ago (ok injury is an excuse) Voss was declared gone past his use by date at 29, baker is going backwards, etc etc.

where is the improvement from players who were good in 06?

As i've said before the team IS capable, we showed what we were capable of for Bangers 350th, when we drilled Sydney and a few games here and there.

we jumped Geelong and Footscray before capilulating. the team IS capable.

there was nothing wrong with our skills and talents for 1/3 of the game against footscray and then it was like the lights went out.

the skills and talent ARE there.

Changing the players is NOT going to bring us any better talent, especially if they are going to be inspired by Ross Lyon.

[St DAC]

On a side note, what may be a concern is that Lyon, a guy who quite clearly has not been able to get any improvement from anyone on our list is going to make 'hard calls' at season's end.

Is he really capable of making these decisions? Would we potentially be trading guys who are very good players, then sacking Lyon a year later only to be left with half a list?

I disagree with your premise that RL hasn't managed to get a better standard out of anyone.

Milne has been better than under GT.
Fiora was better in 2007. He's dropped off this year, however.
Birss has improved.
Attard has been better than his Brisbane form.
Leigh Fisher as well.

The big names are not better. Dal is struggling. Lenny has been great. Harvers too. Roo is struggling a bit this year, but was terrific in 2007. Kosi is struggling, but did so under GT as well.

The point that we rely on too few is valid. But if you need a coach to motivate you to play hard then you are kidding yourself. Every bloke on our list should be ready to gargle barbed wire to play AFL footy for a living. They are living every kid's dream. Mine anyway ...

Is he the bloke to make the calls on players? As long as he's senior coach, then yes. His list improvements have been reasonable:

King/Gardiner as a ruck combo are clearly in front of anything else we've had for some years.

Schneider was a good pickup, a crumbing half forward as we were crying out for.

Birss has been good value.

Dempster and Charlie Gardiner were the steak knives on their deals, and looked to be OK standard at the very least.

His draft picks have all been about adding pace and skill to the future team, and rightly so IMO, but were never about the 2008 team. Kids take time, unless supremely talented like Selwood, Palmer and Rioli.

Not every player will make it. High draft picks fail each year; we'll have our fair share of those.


Ross is still the coach, and until he's not, he gets my support. As did GT, and (sadly) Blight and Watson, and Stan, and Ken Sheldon et al.

[plugger66]

On a side note, what may be a concern is that Lyon, a guy who quite clearly has not been able to get any improvement from anyone on our list is going to make 'hard calls' at season's end.

Is he really capable of making these decisions? Would we potentially be trading guys who are very good players, then sacking Lyon a year later only to be left with half a list?

Milne has been better than under GT.

Leigh Fisher as well.

.

Milne is better than 2006 but no where near the form of earlier years and Fish has been dropped this year and even though he didnt play many games under GT I doubt he was dropped.

[St DAC]

I was including 2007, another Ross Lyon year. Leigh Fisher this year has not been as good as in 2007. Sadly, he's not alone.

[Saints43]

Ross is still the coach, and until he's not, he gets my support. As did GT, and (sadly) Blight and Watson, and Stan, and Ken Sheldon et al.

So in 2000 you still thought Tim Watson was going to turn it around?

[NoMore]

Milne has been better than under GT.
Fiora was better in 2007. He's dropped off this year, however.
Birss has improved.
Attard has been better than his Brisbane form.
Leigh Fisher as well.

I tell you what if Ross is pinning his hopes on another contract based on this he is in trouble.

At least we no longer need to worry about L Fisher's skills because he never gets the ball

Attard is injured now and was as above anyway

Birss is terrible. Just another tagger who is hopeless

And Fiora was only marginally better last year than he was under GT. This year he is a disgrace.

I liked the idea of King and Gardiner and still think there was merit in them. However we could have dean cox and that wouldn't make us flag contenders with the way we play.

Schnieder has not done anything. However maybe if got it into our foward line quicker there would be more oppurtunities for him and milne.

Dempster same as Birss, L Fisher, Blake and Attard.

I would like just one player who has improved under RL.
Could this be besides Milne because he has not improved significantly

[St DAC]

So in 2000 you still thought Tim Watson was going to turn it around?

Nope. I thought he was out of his depth, and was glad to see him go. But while he was senior coach I supported him.

The board are there to make decisions on that level, and no doubt if this run of poor form continues they'll review the situation at years end. If they then move Ross on I'll have no objection; they're closer to the situation than I am.

Until (or if) that happens Ross has my support.


No matter who the coach is it's the players who ultimately determine our ladder position, and right now they have been underperforming big time. They are the ones who needs to take stock and turn their form around. Assisted by the coaching staff of course.

[St DAC]

I would like just one player who has improved under RL.
Could this be besides Milne because he has not improved significantly

I gave you five. None of them world beaters, but seriously, what did you expect? Roo to imorove significantly? Lenny to be much better? They're already at a top level. Ball is better this year than both 2006/7.

Here's another one: Gilbert had a good year last year under Ross.

Most of the rest are down on 2007 form, so it's difficult to make any call on them.

[NoMore]

I'll give you milne

Thats it!

L Fisher is worse by far. He used to negate a forward and get 20 odd disposals

Attard wouldn't get a game for any other club.

Birss hasn't improved it is just our team has got worse so that now he gets a game.

Gilbert was always going to improve. Lyon got him in his second year