In defence of Ross Lyon

[saint patrick]

Was chatting to a Hawthorn supporter mate yesterday and he was saying how he once hated Clarkson and wanted him sacked for years and how relieved he was that he was given time to not only develop the list but to ingrain his system on the players.

You only have look at Mark Thompson and how close he was to getting the chop as not getting the best out of his list in 07 to shake your head...

In reality Frank Costa alone was the man to save his Cats destiny because it is very unlikely that a new coach would have got them their long overdue flag in 08..

Those 2 cases make a very interesting comparison to the deleima faced by the St.Kilda Football Club at the moment with the clubs list at a critical impasse....

The club gave Ross Lyon 3 years and in my opinion he should have every opportunity to mould the team over a decent period...

I haven't given up on the man ...lets see what happens for the rest of this year before we draw too many conclusions...

Ross was a very gutsy and skilful player ...

Lets give him a decent crack at it before we take the easy [and far too often in our history] route of sticking the boots in desperate search for the messiah

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

I SUPPORT ROSS.

ROSS HAS A GAME PLAN.

GIVE ROSS SOME TIME.

CARN THE SAINTS.

[Baldock Rules]

Some good points Pat.Think the jury is still out on Ross at this stage and your right it takes time at least a couple of years for a coach to mould his team .Time din't help me unfortunately.Fate shouldn't be rushed lest it is altered forever.Just ask Mark Thompson.

[saintbrat]

interesting comment from Ross during today's interview

he started by saying as he sat down-' another quiet week at the saints '
during the interview someone obviously alluded to the reports and his game plan- he said 'if i walk out the door unsuccesful it will not be because of articles written about me but what I've done' - if you don't like being judged get out of the business."

he has become more open and relaxed- worked out how to say little but enough.

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

How many people walk into a new job and are at there best right from the start?

Like in all walks off life coaching takes time why don't we support Ross rather than rubbish him in these tough times?

Do u honestly think anyone else could do better atm?

[Animal Enclosure]

The difference with most of our sacked coaches is that the coach had the support of the members of the club. They just got the knife from the board!

Lyon is fast losing the support of members but has support from the board. How long that lasts for is another question.

[mad saint guy]

Clarkson can not be used as an argument in favour of Lyon. Clarkson was bagged in his first couple of years because he got rid of a few of Hawthorn's better senior players for draft picks, and that resulted in little on-field success early on. However it has been obvious since 2004 that they have been building up a powerhouse team and will have a period of sustained success from 2007-2012. Lyon has done the exact opposite.

In 2004-2006 they were very similar to St Kilda of 2001-2003, except after that they kept on recuiting and playing young talent rather than falling into the trap of topping up to try and get that extra bit of immediate success.

[saintsrus]

Clarkson can not be used as an argument in favour of Lyon. Clarkson was bagged in his first couple of years because he got rid of a few of Hawthorn's better senior players for draft picks, and that resulted in little on-field success early on. However it has been obvious since 2004 that they have been building up a powerhouse team and will have a period of sustained success from 2007-2012. Lyon has done the exact opposite.

In 2004-2006 they were very similar to St Kilda of 2001-2003, except after that they kept on recuiting and playing young talent rather than falling into the trap of topping up to try and get that extra bit of immediate success.

Point taken but there was not one person on here that would have supported a rebuild when Lyon started, the media, us supporters all thought we have the cattle, but face facts we dont. We have maybe 4-6 superstars and the rest are GOPS.

[saint patrick]

Clarkson can not be used as an argument in favour of Lyon. Clarkson was bagged in his first couple of years because he got rid of a few of Hawthorn's better senior players for draft picks, and that resulted in little on-field success early on. However it has been obvious since 2004 that they have been building up a powerhouse team and will have a period of sustained success from 2007-2012. Lyon has done the exact opposite.

In 2004-2006 they were very similar to St Kilda of 2001-2003, except after that they kept on recuiting and playing young talent rather than falling into the trap of topping up to try and get that extra bit of immediate success.

It is valid when you are talking about coaching styles as opposed to list development.My mate felt that Clarkson couldn't coach regardless of the personal.Hated his gameplan and his tactical approach which now is his strength.

Perthaps the comparison with Thompson is even more valid...a good list going nowhere or underachieving.

[Winmar7Fan]

I SUPPORT ROSS.

ROSS HAS A GAME PLAN.

GIVE ROSS SOME TIME.

CARN THE SAINTS.

I'm Totally with you . I definately see a structure that a lot don't it just needs sharpening up then some confidence will evolve which wont hurt either

[JeffDunne]

Did we really need another thread on Ross Lyon?

The points raised here have been already been raised and debated in the other threads.

[Teflon]

Did we really need another thread on Ross Lyon?

The points raised here have been already been raised and debated in the other threads.

I agree Jeff.

ANNOUNCEMENT:

Could all posters please refrain from discussing Ross Lyon in a remotely positive manner as JD has opened up a perfectly nice, negative thread elsewhere for all future Lyon discussions to occur within.

Thank you

Management.

[Teflon]

Was chatting to a Hawthorn supporter mate yesterday and he was saying how he once hated Clarkson and wanted him sacked for years and how relieved he was that he was given time to not only develop the list but to ingrain his system on the players.

You only have look at Mark Thompson and how close he was to getting the chop as not getting the best out of his list in 07 to shake your head...

In reality Frank Costa alone was the man to save his Cats destiny because it is very unlikely that a new coach would have got them their long overdue flag in 08..

Those 2 cases make a very interesting comparison to the deleima faced by the St.Kilda Football Club at the moment with the clubs list at a critical impasse....

The club gave Ross Lyon 3 years and in my opinion he should have every opportunity to mould the team over a decent period...

I haven't given up on the man ...lets see what happens for the rest of this year before we draw too many conclusions...

Ross was a very gutsy and skilful player ...

Lets give him a decent crack at it before we take the easy [and far too often in our history] route of sticking the boots in desperate search for the messiah

Great post Pat - I agree 100%

Unfortunately St Kilda has a history of lame supporters with no nerve.

Its ironic....those calling for Lyons head 1 yr and 8 games in........were the same suggesting Grant Thomas shouldve been retained after 5 yrs and declining results.........

Tough crowd.

[JeffDunne]

Unfortunately St Kilda has a history of lame supporters with no nerve.

[rodgerfox]

Unfortunately St Kilda has a history of lame supporters with no nerve.

Funniest thing I've ever read.

I must say, I do like it when people can laugh at themselves. Good for you Teflon.

[degruch]

Crikey...that's a tough call!

Geez, I thought anyone who wants to wear as much emotional punishment as a Saints supporter would have nerves of steel!?! Mate, you should come and live over here in Adelaide...Crows supporters will pack up their Chardonnay, pile into the Range Rovers and flood out of AAMI Stadium at quarter time if the team is more than 7 points down.

That reminds me...Ross...give the poor bugger some time. I'm sick of St Kilda's flipping and flopping with coaches. Frankly, I'm still getting over Stan Alves. He was living and breathing the Saints, despite having never played for us...one under-par season and we arsed him for a 'Super Coach'...yes, Malcolm 'The Messiah' Blight, who coach a brilliant team to two GF's by hardly lifting a finger and was actually totally insane. A few months after leaving Adelaide he was sitting our guys down in the paddock like a bunch of school kids and gobbing on them in the changerooms...what a great solution he was!

Lets give RL time to get a team and a plan together, without distractions, and see what happens from there. Bomber looked hopeless for Geelong for a long time, Chocco was a laughing stock at Port Adelaide, but they all came through in time, because they were allowed to do their job. Give him a break, he's 30 games into his career and were 4/4 this season, it;s not the end of the world.

But I agree he says too much at press conferences.

[rodgerfox]

and gobbing on them in the changerooms...

[spert]

Give the bugger time to build up a good team..he is still struggling with the leftovers of GT's time. It may be another year yet. I remember people totally bagging Hawthorn's over-possessing game plan a couple of years back, but obviously they just needed time to build the right team to play it. We really need to groom young midfielders and forwards especially.

[cuz60]

I am sick to death of this Ross Lyon is the problem crap. I actually believe he is improving as a coach as most people do when they take up a new position. People have commented on our boring game style, in the past month or so apart from the Port Adelaide game which wasn't played in pristine conditions, we have played some pretty bold attacking footy.

First quarter against Geelong 4 goals 7
Second quarter against Essendon 7 goals
Third quarter against Richmond 5 goals in 10 minutes
First quarter against Collingwood 6 goals

The garbage that Trevor Grant yesterday was some of worst journalism I have seen for sometime. If Trevor was at the game on Friday night, he must have been too busy eating his lobster in the medallion club to have watched the first quarter. Either that or out relieving himself after one too many red wine's.

I bet that crap wouldn't have found it's way into the herald sun had we have converted our many opportunities we had to kick goals throughout the night.

The main problem I believe lies with our recruiting from 2004 - 2006. Here is a sample of some of the useless talent we picked up in that period.

Allan Murray, Mark McGough, Nick Stone, Fergus Watts, Cathal Corr, Dylan Pfitzner, Cain Ackland, Phillip Raymond, Justin Sweeney. There is many more that right now I can't remember off the top of my head.

Not only that we picked up Aaron Fiora who lets face it isnt the toughest tool in the shed for Heath Black. That I'll concede we had no choice.
We delisted Brent Guerra which was staggering even if he didnt get along with the coach.

Player's we have recently lost through retirement, not all of them were guns but were all very serviceable players for the St.Kilda football club.
Aussie Jones, Stephen Powell, Aaron Hamill, Brett Voss, Justin Peckett, Luke Penny. Couple that with the slow decline of big Fraser and it is pretty easy to see why we are not the great team we once were.

I believe we will be sitting 5 wins and 5 losses after round 10. Not too disimilar to what we were in 2005-2006. I hardly would call that sack the coach sort of stuff.

All I'd like to say is I can't wait for the day to see the "We never said Ross is a bad coach" people jumping on the bandwagon in the next few years much the same as what is currently happening at Hawthorn. Believe me it will happen!

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

The main problem I believe lies with our recruiting from 2004 - 2006. Here is a sample of some of the useless talent we picked up in that period.

Allan Murray, Mark McGough, Nick Stone, Fergus Watts, Cathal Corr, Dylan Pfitzner, Cain Ackland, Phillip Raymond, Justin Sweeney. There is many more that right now I can't remember off the top of my head.

Totally agree with that mate. Thats why i think we seriously lack depth now - because we have wasted 2/3 years not recruiting well, not spending enough time developing rookies, and have picked up some very bad recycled players. Seems like since RL has come in that a lot more time/effort is being put into the rookies and development of younger players.

[Animal Enclosure]

Good post Cuz, I hope you're right but jeez it's frustrating to watch at present.

I think all the anti Ross sentiment is a result of many people being at the end of their tether with this club.

We always seem to be able to grasp failure while on the cusp of success and this just seems like it's heading that way at present.

A win against the odds is desperately needed.

[Cairnsman]

Good post Cuz, I hope you're right but jeez it's frustrating to watch at present.

I think all the anti Ross sentiment is a result of many people being at the end of their tether with this club.

We always seem to be able to grasp failure while on the cusp of success and this just seems like it's heading that way at present.

A win against the odds is desperately needed.

How the hell can we be at the end of our tether, it's got nothing to with tether, we have only won a single cup in over 100 odd years so tether has got nothing to do with it. If it was all about tether then the club wouldn't have one bloddy supporter. If it was about tether then we would all be carlton, collingwood or essendon supporters. For christ sake this club has got more tether than any other f*****g club in the history of sport. When did we all become a bunch of snivelling, whinging, whining bunch of sooks. I grew up going to the footy week in, and week out, rain hail or shine, and we would get floged week in, and week out. But you never ever, ever left early. I never got to the end of a tether even when it was raining and below zero and we were 100 down. NEVER! and neither did anyone else in the outer.

[Animal Enclosure]

Well good on you Cairnsman, you never left the footy early, surely you deserve some sort of medal struck in your honour. Don't attack me over a turn of phrase & suggest that I'm not 'equal' to you in terms of loyalty to St.Kilda when you have never met me.

Just to appease you oh saintly one, I've witnessed my fair share of St.Kilda beltings in my 34 years. I stood with my dad behind the Nepean Hwy goals throughout the 80's & wished for a day when I could experience the feeling that my Hawthorn, Essendon and Carlton mate regularly enjoyed.

A number of times it looked like the near impossible was going to come true & each time people who held their own egos in a higher regard than the club conspired to stuff it up.

If 'my tether' is a saying that offends you, well bite me. I'm sick of St.Kilda being also rans. I don't want to be told that we're in rebuilding mode in 2 years time because to rebuild at that time will be disastrous. The Gold Coast will be handed the best kids on a platter & whoever is unfortunate enough to be on the bottom can look forward to an ordinary top pick as a result.

I'll still be a member (have been since I was 10), still fork out for reserved seats for my family, still yell until I'm hoarse and support the boys that are trying their guts out.

So take my tether & wrap it around your self righteous throat.

[Behind Play]

Very disappointing to hear commentators saying on radio, there is no way the Saints can beat the BL. Three months ago we were going to win the flag.
A weeks a long time in this game.

[Cairnsman]

Well good on you Cairnsman, you never left the footy early, surely you deserve some sort of medal struck in your honour. Don't attack me over a turn of phrase & suggest that I'm not 'equal' to you in terms of loyalty to St.Kilda when you have never met me.

Just to appease you oh saintly one, I've witnessed my fair share of St.Kilda beltings in my 34 years. I stood with my dad behind the Nepean Hwy goals throughout the 80's & wished for a day when I could experience the feeling that my Hawthorn, Essendon and Carlton mate regularly enjoyed.

A number of times it looked like the near impossible was going to come true & each time people who held their own egos in a higher regard than the club conspired to stuff it up.

If 'my tether' is a saying that offends you, well bite me. I'm sick of St.Kilda being also rans. I don't want to be told that we're in rebuilding mode in 2 years time because to rebuild at that time will be disastrous. The Gold Coast will be handed the best kids on a platter & whoever is unfortunate enough to be on the bottom can look forward to an ordinary top pick as a result.

I'll still be a member (have been since I was 10), still fork out for reserved seats for my family, still yell until I'm hoarse and support the boys that are trying their guts out.

So take my tether & wrap it around your self righteous throat.

That wasn't a crack at you Animal. That was my rant about something that is more frustrating than anything at the moment and that is people attacking something that hasn't even had a chance to work. This club has developed a culture of eating it's own. We should all remember FORTIOUS QUO FIDLIUS. In the mean time we should try and enjoy the small things our club does, the players do, the team does.