Skill level not up to it - Goals That Should be Kicked...

[Teflon]

Just returned from watching us let an extremely winnable game slip by with what can only be termed poor basic skill errors - specifically players who BY FOOT cant take their chances when its required. Dont talk about coaches OR injury - we were out to 15 pts twice in this game and players went AWOL.

Lenny x 2 really gettable goals
Milne x2 (last set shot KILLED US...and a 2nd qtr "run around" that went nowhere)
C Gardiner - who did all the hard work and nearly kicked the ball at a right angle when shooting for goal...

and so it goes for another week.....opposition side take their chances and half chances.....saints miss running into an open goal......

We only lost by little more than a kick FFS ....you just cant week in week out NOT kick these goals. Up the other end Im watching Leon Davis, Dudak and f@rk even Obrien kick miracle goals and put on a skills display......TEAM LIFTING GOALS.

Our ball movement forward is still to slow and our forward line is a shambles. Fraser Gehrig needs to reconsider his future - its time Im afraid.

How many times did Collingwood run the footy the length of the field, score a goal from our fwd line with NO pressure? I cant believe players like Gram,.......run alongside an opponent waving their arms...allowing the guy with the footy to stop, prop and pinpoint a target FFS WHERE'S THE IMMEDIATE PRESSURE????

Luke Ball - awesome to see the skill you were lauded for onCe again on display.

M Gardiner - i thought his game was quite good tonight.

I thought Dal Santo and Goddard fwd at times worked - they know how to use the footy.

Infact our mids were good tonight to me our problems are ALL in our build up going forward and FWD line.

Dont blame the coach for tonights loss.....blame players who simply dont have the basic foot skills (Birrs, C Gardiner et al) to take their chances when it comes to kicking somegoals.

Collingwood must be wrapped...they played cr@p and just got 4 pts off a side who will struggle to play finals on that effort.

ps. Justin Kositzsche (?) needs to develop his football. The hypes over for me.

If I rambled I dont apologise. I hate losing to inferior sides who are well coached AND who have a coach getting consistent, top performances out of previous duds like Medhurst and "Leon Neon" (27 disposals tonight 8 hard ball gets FFS and kicks a couple...)

[Buckets]

Just returned from watching us let an extremely winnable game slip by with what can only be termed poor basic skill errors - specifically players who BY FOOT cant take their chances when its required. Dont talk about coaches OR injury - we were out to 15 pts twice in this game and players went AWOL.

Lenny x 2 really gettable goals
Milne x2 (last set shot KILLED US...and a 2nd qtr "run around" that went nowhere)
C Gardiner - who did all the hard work and nearly kicked the ball at a right angle when shooting for goal...

and so it goes for another week.....opposition side take their chances and half chances.....saints miss running into an open goal......

We only lost by little more than a kick FFS ....you just cant week in week out NOT kick these goals. Up the other end Im watching Leon Davis, Dudak and f@rk even Obrien kick miracle goals and put on a skills display......TEAM LIFTING GOALS.

Our ball movement forward is still to slow and our forward line is a shambles. Fraser Gehrig needs to reconsider his future - its time Im afraid.

How many times did Collingwood run the footy the length of the field, score a goal from our fwd line with NO pressure? I cant believe players like Gram,.......run alongside an opponent waving their arms...allowing the guy with the footy to stop, prop and pinpoint a target FFS WHERE'S THE IMMEDIATE PRESSURE????

Luke Ball - awesome to see the skill you were lauded for onCe again on display.

M Gardiner - i thought his game was quite good tonight.

I thought Dal Santo and Goddard fwd at times worked - they know how to use the footy.

Infact our mids were good tonight to me our problems are ALL in our build up going forward and FWD line.

Dont blame the coach for tonights loss.....blame players who simply dont have the basic foot skills (Birrs, C Gardiner et al) to take their chances when it comes to kicking somegoals.
Collingwood must be wrapped...they played cr@p and just got 4 pts off a side who will struggle to play finals on that effort.

ps. Justin Kositzsche (?) needs to develop his football. The hypes over for me.

If I rambled I dont apologise. I hate losing to inferior sides who are well coached AND who have a coach getting consistent, top performances out of previous duds like Medhurst and "Leon Neon" (27 disposals tonight 8 hard ball gets FFS and kicks a couple...)

I blame both. Coach picks the team and allows players with poor disposal to continually get a game. The players who cant seem to lift when required and leave the hard work up to a few who cant do it all on their own. Other than that agree totally with what you said!

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

Don't get down on Lenny he can't be perfect he was so dam good tonight he kept us in it don't worry about that.

Yeah he doesn't convert but how much does he set up with his tackle and pressure and clearance work.

LEAVE LENNY ALONE

[Teflon]

Buckets - who else is Lyon gonna bring in to the side right now that has reliable skills by foot - C Jones?

We've also got the little problem of BIG NAME players who arent taking the next step- Kosi - and a lumbering ex-Coleman medallist who,once the footy hits the ground, chases like Frankenstein and is a liability.

When an AFL player has THE MOMENT to run into open space inside 25 for a shot on goal with little pressure and misses......I struggle to lay blame at tyhe coach UNLESS the coach had more skillful options sitting in the 2's? please name ours??

[clobba]

lol its sorry as I was trying to convince my dad that getting rid of GT wasnt abad thing....ah welll it isnt soft tissue injuries just the gods stopping us from actually acheiving anything

[The_Dud]

Didn't Birss kick 2 goals...?

is it too much to say that Charlie Gardiner lost this game for us on his own?

[Teflon]

Didn't Birss kick 2 goals...?

is it too much to say that Charlie Gardiner lost this game for us on his own?

I think it is to much to say Gardiner lost this game on his own. But his is a good example to me of why we lost.

I was referring more to Birs field kicking which lets him down IMHO (think I listed the obvious goals?).

[Teflon]

Don't get down on Lenny he can't be perfect he was so dam good tonight he kept us in it don't worry about that.

Yeah he doesn't convert but how much does he set up with his tackle and pressure and clearance work.

LEAVE LENNY ALONE

No ones getting downm on Lenny - he was great tonight BUT his examples IMHO point directly to the type of finishing players we simply lack. No they cant all be Dal Santo's but at this level youd expect them to kick relatively easy critical goals.

[Buckets]

Buckets - who else is Lyon gonna bring in to the side right now that has reliable skills by foot - C Jones?

We've also got the little problem of BIG NAME players who arent taking the next step- Kosi - and a lumbering ex-Coleman medallist who,once the footy hits the ground, chases like Frankenstein and is a liability.

When an AFL player has THE MOMENT to run into open space inside 25 for a shot on goal with little pressure and misses......I struggle to lay blame at tyhe coach UNLESS the coach had more skillful options sitting in the 2's? please name ours??

In the end the buck stops with the coach. He is the one that is in charge of gameplans, training regimes, fitness conditioning, picking players and motivating them. The fact is that he continues with players that do not perform. Name me other than Fiora and G who else has been dropped to make a point??? The answer is no one we are starting to embrace mediocrity and that should not be allowed at any level. People have screamed out for Lyon to experiment with some of our younger guys in the scorps, but he doesnt.
Is it not a concern to you that out of a 22 tonight we had at least 4 players who played more of a tagging role and worried more about their opponent then getting the ball themselves? Hell yes we could have won the game the fact is the same problems would still be there because i do not rate the pies this year they have gone backwards! Just like the loss to Port we stuffed up on field and off it yet again! Tell me why the hell would you mark space with 5 minutes to go knowing damn well that we needed to pressure the opposition into coughing up the ball so we could try win it!
Why do our players seem to lack the confidence to kick for goal or take risks? Doesnt that ultimately fall on the coach's shoulders?

[Bernard Shakey]

It is still the fault of the coach.

It is his job to teach the team to play to the game plan.
If they are not skillful enough to do that, it is his job to teach them those skills.

Doesn't matter who is available in the 2s, although I would hope Geary is back next week and possibly Allen.

[Teflon]

Buckets - who else is Lyon gonna bring in to the side right now that has reliable skills by foot - C Jones?

We've also got the little problem of BIG NAME players who arent taking the next step- Kosi - and a lumbering ex-Coleman medallist who,once the footy hits the ground, chases like Frankenstein and is a liability.

When an AFL player has THE MOMENT to run into open space inside 25 for a shot on goal with little pressure and misses......I struggle to lay blame at tyhe coach UNLESS the coach had more skillful options sitting in the 2's? please name ours??

In the end the buck stops with the coach. He is the one that is in charge of gameplans, training regimes, fitness conditioning, picking players and motivating them. The fact is that he continues with players that do not perform. Name me other than Fiora and G who else has been dropped to make a point??? The answer is no one we are starting to embrace mediocrity and that should not be allowed at any level. People have screamed out for Lyon to experiment with some of our younger guys in the scorps, but he doesnt.
Is it not a concern to you that out of a 22 tonight we had at least 4 players who played more of a tagging role and worried more about their opponent then getting the ball themselves? Hell yes we could have won the game the fact is the same problems would still be there because i do not rate the pies this year they have gone backwards! Just like the loss to Port we stuffed up on field and off it yet again! Tell me why the hell would you mark space with 5 minutes to go knowing damn well that we needed to pressure the opposition into coughing up the ball so we could try win it!
Why do our players seem to lack the confidence to kick for goal or take risks? Doesnt that ultimately fall on the coach's shoulders?

Does the fact that players like C Gardiner handball instead of ta,king a shot on goal really qualify as the coaches "game plan" fault?

Does a crumbing fwd who misses set shots or tries to run riound the mark to miss another fall under the "coaches game plan" fault?

Does our captain who has an opportunity from an easy set shot dead in front just beforfe half time and misses (only to watch Dale Thomas demonstrate how its done at the other end to give the Pies the lead) come under "coaches game plan" fault?

Do you really think poor decision making by players under pressure in the heat of battle IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD is somehow the coaches fault?

Yes the coach is responsible for game plan - I dont think we lost tonight because of game plan. Yes hes responsible for motivation - we lost by 10 pts .........was motivation really lacking????? Was fitness really an issue tonight (also a coaches responsibility)?????? Yes hes responsible for player selection (and I didnt agree with retaining Gehrig OR not giving a Geary/Ferguson a shot) BUT with match ups in defence I can see why he made some selections he did....

Look to skill levels and finishing abilities of some of our players if you wanna see what lost us the game tonight.....its all just a bit to easy to say "game plan" yet again.

[The_Dud]

i will blame the coach for not getting the team to man up in the last 5 minutes

if they're not doing it on there own, then MAKE THEM do it

[Teflon]

It is still the fault of the coach.

It is his job to teach the team to play to the game plan.
If they are not skillful enough to do that, it is his job to teach them those skills.

Doesn't matter who is available in the 2s, although I would hope Geary is back next week and possibly Allen.

I dont think a coach OR his game plan can be blamed for poor player decision making and at this level poor basic skill levels such as kicking goals dead in front 25m out.

Game plan can be blamed for a lot but it has become the modern day "get out of jail" card for player failings IMHO.

[plugger66]

What is a real problem are kick ins. They got at least 2 goals from our points and most other times got it to the centre without any pressure. We were lucky to get it outside the 50 when we kicked in. This is a real problem.

[Teflon]

What is a real problem are kick ins. They got at least 2 goals from our points and most other times got it to the centre without any pressure. We were lucky to get it outside the 50 when we kicked in. This is a real problem.

Yeah agree TOTALLY. Was enormously frustrating to watch us labour away to get it half way down field while when it was their turn it mive swiflty and scored. We had NO pressure on ntheir ball carriers and simply allowed them to set up. I agree this is a REAL concern along with the dysfunctional fwd line.

[Richter]

Teflon, you might have been reading my mind. Agree with every word. A few things to add...

1/ Boy how we missed Roo.

2/ Our better players stood up tonight - Dal, Harvs, Lenny, Ball, Max, Sam Fish all played well.

3/ Some mid-tier players did ok - MG, King,Blake, Leigh Fisher, Birss (who did a fair job on Heath Shaw I thought, getting a couple for himself too), Gram, BJ

4/ TOO MANY passengers - especially in the forward line.....

- G-train: don't think he'll play again for the Saints.... I sense that after spending most of the 2nd half on the pine that both player and coach realise that now.

- C Gardiner: a CHF who doesn't kick goals..... that's a new one

- Kosi: a frustrating day at the office for the big guy

- Raph: didn't do much wrong..... but did nothing right either - can't imagine he got more than a half dozen touches - and knocked off the ball so easily it was embarassing

- Schneider: mostly anonymous, although seemed to get into it a bit more in the second half

- Dempster: I really don't see what RL sees in him. Didak killed him. Aimless kicking hurt us on the rebound too.

5/ Yeah Milne made a few poor decisions - but that's Milney - at least he got a bit of it and had a go. The best of a poor offensive line tonight.

6/ You have to say that Fiora, CJ and one of Allen/Ferg are likely to come in for G, Raph, Charlie Gardiner.