McEvoy or Rioli???

[Otiman]

See where they both are in 5 years time. If this place is still up and we can bring up old posts, i'm sure it will be interesting.

[sax]

Pretty ridiculous thread this one. It's far too early to be making these sort of calls - big men take longer to come through than little fellas.

However, looking back a year we can see that we picked Brad Howard with our second pick, in front of for instance, Bachar Houli and Alwyn Davey. At the present time that is not looking a real clever pick. Both Houli and Davey were touted at the time. Hopefully BH can come through in the next couple of years and show us what he can do.

Why is this a ridiculous thread? I made an observation and wanted to see other people's oppinions! I'm not saying we SHOULD have drafted Rioli! I stated in the origional post that it was to early to call. So you know, I actually think we picked the right person.
It was just a hyperthetical brought up for friendly discussion.

[congorozides]

I agree with most people that drawing comparisons with Cyril and McEvoy is unfair and premature.

HOWEVER i went to the Hawks game on Sunday in Launie and I am convinced that Cyril is a GUN. Not just the goals, but can the kid tackle and harrass! Very impressive player.

I think a fair comparison is Cyril and Raph. Cyril is already miles better than Raph - and Raph has had 4 pre-seasons of fitness conditioning and strength!

Saints to need to face the facts that Raph aint going to make it. Cyril proves the point.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

cyril at the moment is a flash in the pan lets see how he go's next year with the second year blues
he could prove me wrong but he reminds me of aaron Davey when he first came on the scene now look at him hardly a glimse on what ppl were saying he was going to be . time will tell but i would rather a sustained constant player over 6-10 years over a one year wonder

[Beej]

Greg Westaway wanted Rioli.

I heard the same thing. He spotted him as an 8 year old at the local park if I remember correctly. He said he'd never seen anyone thread a footy through a couple of jumpers like Rioli.

Very strange that the football department didn't take Westaway's advice. I would've thought that opinions from sh!t footballers would be highly respected in this game.

[congorozides]

cyril at the moment is a flash in the pan lets see how he go's next year with the second year blues
he could prove me wrong but he reminds me of aaron Davey when he first came on the scene now look at him hardly a glimse on what ppl were saying he was going to be . time will tell but i would rather a sustained constant player over 6-10 years over a one year wonder

id take aaron davey any day.
hed go all right in a good team.

[Beekay]

I think a fair comparison is Cyril and Raph. Cyril is already miles better than Raph - and Raph has had 4 pre-seasons of fitness conditioning and strength!

Saints to need to face the facts that Raph aint going to make it. Cyril proves the point.

They are different players with different bodies and suited to different positions. Ohhh but they are both aboriginals!

[congorozides]

I think a fair comparison is Cyril and Raph. Cyril is already miles better than Raph - and Raph has had 4 pre-seasons of fitness conditioning and strength!

Saints to need to face the facts that Raph aint going to make it. Cyril proves the point.

They are different players with different bodies and suited to different positions. Ohhh but they are both aboriginals!

i was waiting for someone to give me the "different players/different bodies " argument! I knew it was comin! lets keep making excuses for Raphthen.

the reason i compared them was because they were very similar position first round picks in the National Draft! Raph 7 and Cyril 11? Not their aboriginality. We can compare Cyril to Armo if that avoids any racism issues. Just thought it is a bit unfair to judge Armo yet. Give him another 12 months. Then we can compare.

I just cant help feeling that Raph has had more chances because of his high draft selection. as if we are forever trying to justify the pick.

[Beekay]

Don't get me wrong, I think Raph is very average.

Certainly don't think you were being racist or even close.

[Richter]

Pretty ridiculous thread this one.....

Why is this a ridiculous thread? I made an observation and wanted to see other people's oppinions! I'm not saying we SHOULD have drafted Rioli! I stated in the origional post that it was to early to call. So you know, I actually think we picked the right person.
It was just a hyperthetical brought up for friendly discussion.

Fair enough sax, I was a bit overcritical saying "ridiculous" I suppose. I think you probably answered your own question in your OP though - it is too early to call.

I think that last year's draft is not one that we need to be wringing our hands over though. Compare with others over the last 5 years

2003 - 1st pick Raph Clarke - showed early promise, now struggling

2004 - 1st pick A Mcqualter - delisted at the end of last year; picked up again as a rookie - unlikely to make it at AFL level

2005 - 1st pick traded for Fergus Watts - another big man recruited in a team crying out for the next generation of midfielders! - now delisted

2006 - Prob too early to call but at 2nd pick we took a pacey mid, Brad Howard, a smokie from Queensland in front of Houli and Davey, two who were talked up prior to the draft albeit Houli had an injury cloud over him.

2007 - Our obvious deficiencies midfield pace and the ruck - we picked up a potential gun ruckman with our 1st pick. Fair enough IMO.

............

2008 - we should continue to target pacey and skilled mids IMO

[Saints94]

Ben Mcevoy long term ruckmen

[Goose is king]

Iam happy enough with us taking a ruckman. King and Gardi have had injury riddled histories. So the second best ruckman in the U18's is probably a good idea. Maybe we need to do what no one wants to do and give up a good player to enable us 2 first round picks next year (unless our entire core group fire this year).

[Red]

If we drafted him he'd be playing in the vfl for the next couple of years.

[The_Dud]

i am getting sick of continually drafting "project players", and seemingly never getting a Selwood, or Palmer, or Rioli, or Houli, or any other first year player who makes an impact

when was the last time we had a first year player actually perform?

[Saints Premiers 2008]

i am getting sick of continually drafting "project players", and seemingly never getting a Selwood, or Palmer, or Rioli, or Houli, or any other first year player who makes an impact

when was the last time we had a first year player actually perform?

those are 4 players out of 160 approx that have been drafted over the previous two drafts...

some kids show a bit more...ours haven't yet...

[casey scorp]

Greg Westaway wanted Rioli.

Has he got an endorsed licence?

Oddly, the football department chose not to take his advice.

Maybe they're doing their job instead.

[True Blue Sainter]

Thing is...we drafted McEvoy after he had played alot of his recent footy as a CHF, not a ruckman. We should have gone for Rioli at 9, and a genuine ruckman with third round pick... oh i dunno! maybe McEvoy will prove me wrong, and i hope he does!

[The Oracale]

I don't know why people always jump the gun and cream themselves over the first junior player to show some kind of form at AFL level.

Every year there is the scenario that Player B - who was taken after Player A comes on a little stronger and shows a little more early on, and supporters jump the gun with threads like this that ask "why didn't we select Player B instead of Player A". Last year is was Essendon fans creaming themselves by telling everybody they'd dominated the draft - with managing to pick up Leroy Jetta at #18 and how stupid Carlton were for picking Sean Hampson at #17.

Fact: whether you beleive it or not, players are a product of their environment, Cyril was a good junior (pardon the pun) - yet never played TAC and was drafted being 4 kgs over his ideal playing weight. Cyril is playing in a very strong side and therefore his transition is arguably easier than that of a player who is thrown to the wolves in a struggeling side.

Fact: Despite being talked up and rated highly (then again, so was Caleb Mourish - and we all know how that worked out) - because he never played TAC footy and because he was half assed in his APS approach to footy, Cyril was an unknown quantity and therefore was deemed as a small risk, only a handfull of clubs were willing to take and I can absolutley confirm the Saints weren't one.

Fact: "Buckets" McEvoy (which is his TAC nickname - because he has massive hands that never drop marks) was an exciting prospect given that he had sound mobillity and impressive aerial marking abillity. In the TAC he competed with Matthew Kreuzer well around the ground which enabled Murray to break even in the midfield, while also being able to go forward and kick 5 goals while playing as a resting forward.

Fact: Despite Richmond fans objecture, McEvoy was the 2nd best ruckman in last years draft, not as complete a package as Kreuzer - but far and away in front of the rest. Some pundits even had McEvoy as highly rated as #5.

Thats my 2 cents worth.

[The Oracale]

Thing is...we drafted McEvoy after he had played alot of his recent footy as a CHF, not a ruckman. We should have gone for Rioli at 9, and a genuine ruckman with third round pick... oh i dunno! maybe McEvoy will prove me wrong, and i hope he does!

Sorry for interjecting again, but allow me to offer the view that the drafting game is never as cut and dry as that.

There is a common notion that big men who are mobile and can take a grab are worth their weight in gold and are deemed as more valued and more sought after commodity than a flaky crumber.

Therefore given the calculated risks associated with the drafting game on November 25 - you always take the player you both: rate higher, and know won't be around come your 2nd pick.

When in doubt - go the big man.

[borderbarry]

As I have previously posted elsewhere, if we had not picked up Scheider we would have taken Rioli.

[mad saint guy]

As I have previously posted elsewhere, if we had not picked up Scheider we would have taken Rioli.

Raises another interesting question. Would we have been better off not trading pick 26 at all?

Adam Schneider - Good goalkicking midfielder. Has had injury and consistency problems, but probably has 8 years of quality football left in him.

+

Sean Dempster - Medium defender/tagger who offers very little offensively and can not hold his own against strong-bodied players. Is young, but does not look comfortable at AFL level and is competing with a long list of defensive flankers for a game at St Kilda.

+

Ben McEvoy - Young ruckman/forward with good skills and footy smarts, but isn't particularly tall and lacks athleticism. Isn't a modern Cox/McIntosh type ruckman, but could potentially develop into a David Hille/Dean Brogan powerful ruckman who can drift forward.

Or...

Cyril Rioli - Very skilled, very smart midfielder/small forward with plenty of pace and applies good defensive pressure. AFL ready from his first season and could potentially play 15 years of AFL footy.

+

Dawson Simpson - 208cm, 105kg monster ruckman who is relatively new to footy and has shown huge improvement in a short amount of time. Is fairly athletic for his size and his skills are improving rapidly. Could very well end up the same size as Aaron Sandilands in a few years.

[The Oracale]

Dawson Simpson - 208cm, 105kg monster ruckman who is relatively new to footy and has shown huge improvement in a short amount of time. Is fairly athletic for his size and his skills are improving rapidly. Could very well end up the same size as Aaron Sandilands in a few years.

Dawson Simpson is incredibly overrated.

Due to his size (which on another point he's grown 3 cm since being drafted!) his contributions aside from rucking were vastly overrated. In 2006 he averaged 4 possessions a game - and they were mainly handballs, in 2007 he managed to bump it up to around 10.

He's not uber athletic - and his disposal isnt the best.

[evertonfc]

And what about Austin Wonaeamirri? Quality.

Why do they get continually overlooked?

Intensely frustrating watching this boy do what he did on the weekend.

From the moment I laid eyes on AW last year, he looked like a ready-made player to me. Maybe playing in the SANFL sullied his reputation for recruiters because he wasn't straight out of the u/18 comp, but geez, I really liked him from what I saw.

I thought he had exactly what we needed - pace, flair, defensive pressure and an eye for goal.

Have our recruiters got the image of Sean Charles, Allan Murray, Fred Campbell and, ahem, Raph Clarke burned in their memory or something?

I'm not suggesting anything like that...but we seem to aversion to rookie-ing young Aboriginal talent, whereas almost every other club seems to have scored a genuine indigenous talent off the rookie list.

I wish we'd take a punt on one or two of them.

(Although, having said that, we've got a pathetic rookie-list record full-stop, regardless of indigenous players.)

[saintly]

And what about Austin Wonaeamirri? Quality.

Why do they get continually overlooked?

Intensely frustrating watching this boy do what he did on the weekend.

From the moment I laid eyes on AW last year, he looked like a ready-made player to me. Maybe playing in the SANFL sullied his reputation for recruiters because he wasn't straight out of the u/18 comp, but geez, I really liked him from what I saw.

I thought he had exactly what we needed - pace, flair, defensive pressure and an eye for goal.

Have our recruiters got the image of Sean Charles, Allan Murray, Fred Campbell and, ahem, Raph Clarke burned in their memory or something?

I'm not suggesting anything like that...but we seem to aversion to rookie-ing young Aboriginal talent, whereas almost every other club seems to have scored a genuine indigenous talent off the rookie list.

I wish we'd take a punt on one or two of them.

(Although, having said that, we've got a pathetic rookie-list record full-stop, regardless of indigenous players.)

Austin was overlooked by every club until the rookie draft came along.

[spert]

As it stands now, McEvoy is showing promise playing in Casey Scorps, so he should be brought into the seniors as soon as possible. We have a brittle ruck lineup with King not a long-term solution, and need to bring young guys through. We also need to bolster positions all across the ground, but one thing at a time.