We have issues lets face facts....

[Teflon]

Yeah Richmond missed twice in the dying moments so we get 4 pts and yes we were Roo, X down (Dal played ok, Goose is window dressing at present for mine) but lets be serious....a genuine side would smashed us tonight.

We were comprehensively belted out of the middle - clearances etc we got killed. Simmonds murdered us AND even before Rieowldt went off our fwd line was not functioning. We had to rely on a sole crumber to kick a score or we'd been flogged easily......surely its time for Gehrig....

We are moving the ball slowly no question. When we moved it faster our fwd line looked dangerous.

We'll sruggle to make the 8 on this form and frankly the gap between us and Geelong/Hawks (who belted Pies easily) is enormous.

Sad thing is.....bad timing to be heading south.....draft pick wise.

We just rely to much on to few - especially up fwd - we dont get enough from the midfield in terms of score/clearances. We lack someone who can genuinely speed away from a contest and use it by foot depserately and we dont have a HFF line.

[cwrcyn]

Can't argue with much of that.

Number of emerging creative running players with leg speed????


Geary?


And who else........................................????????????????


Not much to get excited about

[Teflon]

agree re the run.

You could the difference several times tonight...Richmond opened us up when they dashed through the corridor and on many occasions ran round us..

Gram looks amazingly soft and not up to a tougher midfield role.
X can run the lines and has a go - I thought he was ok tonight and dont underestimate the impact of losing him.

But your right.....who else?

I was heartened to hear Lyon interviewed after the game say they were worried about Richmonds run because they have been running very well altely.....that tells me he knows we are deficient in that area but thats only gonna get better with an influx of that player type....not this year.

[BakesFan]

We were a far better side this week compared to last week.
At 4-3 and showing improvement we're not too far away.
My only major criticism at this point in time is our tackling. We're just not sticking them, too many opposition players are slipping through.

Don't underestimate The Tigers.
They went within 12 points of the Hawks last week. In many ways this was an even bigger game for them. There's no doubt it was a '8 point game' for both sides tonight; and it was a match played in that spirit.

It's a long season. We have a two week break to 'freshen up', work on our deficiencies and attack the rest of the season.
Chin up, old boy. It's not over yet.

GO SAINTS!!!

[Buckets]

Thing is that we do have the players already i think it is more mental when it comes down to the crunch! The talent is there it is the application that lacks at the present time. Why the hell would we want to start aiming at draft picks? We have for the last 5 years crucified Carlton for 'tanking' there is no way in hell that i want to have this team do the same i dont think that i could stomach that!
Why do you need to get the draft picks for every team who has done so there is another that hasn't! Hell how many teams that have tanked and got the picks actually won the premiership? Wouldn't think the success rate would be suprisingly high! FFS have a tiny bit of faith in this group we have the team they just need to apply themselves. You were only 1 1/2 years ago saying that with Lyon that we would go the next step. Now that they have not been playing fantastic footy it is not the coach's fault but the fact that we dont have a good enough team and never will be Yeah G may need to think of his immediate future however i think we have enough depth to cover him. Hell Lyon waited until half way through the last quarter to place either Kosi or Gards down in the forward 50 especially when we needed a tall forward down there!
Hell even bring in Allen or Big Mac to play forward maybe that will help but to throw the baby out with the bathwater is a bit rich!

[JeffDunne]

Our forward setup needs to be completely reworked - and fast.

Was pleased to see the longer the game went the more willing we were to attack the bloke with the pill. Let's hope the desperation we showed late will be how we start in future.

[ausfatcat]

Can't argue with much of that.

Number of emerging creative running players with leg speed????


Geary?


And who else........................................????????????????


Not much to get excited about

FFS I am sick of hereing about quick players, quick players don't do s*** for you if you can't win the ball thats where we fell down tonight.

[JeffDunne]

Why the hell would we want to start aiming at draft picks?!

It's an argument to justify mediocrity.

Nobody with half a clue would be suggesting anything but finals for this list.

[Teflon]

Thing is that we do have the players already i think it is more mental when it comes down to the crunch! The talent is there it is the application that lacks at the present time. Why the hell would we want to start aiming at draft picks? We have for the last 5 years crucified Carlton for 'tanking' there is no way in hell that i want to have this team do the same i dont think that i could stomach that!
Why do you need to get the draft picks for every team who has done so there is another that hasn't! Hell how many teams that have tanked and got the picks actually won the premiership? Wouldn't think the success rate would be suprisingly high! FFS have a tiny bit of faith in this group we have the team they just need to apply themselves. You were only 1 1/2 years ago saying that with Lyon that we would go the next step. Now that they have not been playing fantastic footy it is not the coach's fault but the fact that we dont have a good enough team and never will be Yeah G may need to think of his immediate future however i think we have enough depth to cover him. Hell Lyon waited until half way through the last quarter to place either Kosi or Gards down in the forward 50 especially when we needed a tall forward down there!
Hell even bring in Allen or Big Mac to play forward maybe that will help but to throw the baby out with the bathwater is a bit rich!

Settle down Alice - Ive got my views you yours.

You reckon its all just about "clicking" and mental aptitude (Im sure thats a part of it) Im also sure we dont have the flexibility in player type right now to challenge Geelong/Hawks. Dont beleive me? Have a look at the goals coming from Geelong WHO HAVE goal kicking mids who can also run and carry and then also have a look at our mids goal kicking stats - they dont stack up at all. Infact last year Geelong got nearly 70 od goals from Bartel, Liing, Ablett, Corey and Co....we got about 20 from, our lot. Whats the consequence of that?

WE rely on ALL our score to come from Roo, Gehrig, Kos and Milne. We become predictable (and weve seen that this year) and easy to shut down.

Im all for having "faith" but everfy now an againits actually refreshin to pull your head out of your....sand.....and take in some facts. We need to bring in some different player types to cover a basic lack of run and most wouldnt argue with that.

[Dal_Santos_Gal]

Sorry I disagree.

Lets look at it from the other side of the fence just for a second.

We are not playing great footy at the moment and to this point in the season we have not had the whole team firing at once yet we still have managed 4 wins out of 7.

It only takes confidence and some form and we became a very good side. Not an average side as we are at the moment.

This season we have had players up and down with form.
Players that I beleive are key to winning games week in week out.
Dal Santo, Gram, Kosi and Goose just to name a few.

Also our kicking at goal has been much below average this season. Kicking straight will make a huge difference which will add more scoreboard pressure not only will it make it harder on the other side, but it will add a bucket load of confidence to our players.
With confidence means players will take more risks and will run more with the ball (that is almost a given)

The biggest problem is our midfielders are not kicking enough goals,
after 7 rounds our midfield have kicked 11 goals. You take a look at Geelong their midfield have kicked 34 goals.
When our forwards go missing in parts of the game we don't have players like Dal, Hayes, Ball or Joey kicking a goal or two to keep the scoreboard ticking.

To say we are only going to head south at this stage is a little extreme IMO

Have a little faith! We are winning games and winning close games. Its the close games you REALLY need to win.


Go Saints!

[SainterX]

To me I still think we have the players to beat anyone. Like others have said including Dal Santos gal a little confidence can go a long way.

[Teflon]

Sorry I disagree.

Lets look at it from the other side of the fence just for a second.

We are not playing great footy at the moment and to this point in the season we have not had the whole team firing at once yet we still have managed 4 wins out of 7.

It only takes confidence and some form and we became a very good side. Not an average side as we are at the moment.

This season we have had players up and down with form.
Players that I beleive are key to winning games week in week out.
Dal Santo, Gram, Kosi and Goose just to name a few.

Also our kicking at goal has been much below average this season. Kicking straight will make a huge difference which will add more scoreboard pressure not only will it make it harder on the other side, but it will add a bucket load of confidence to our players.
With confidence means players will take more risks and will run more with the ball (that is almost a given)

The biggest problem is our midfielders are not kicking enough goals,
after 7 rounds our midfield have kicked 11 goals. You take a look at Geelong their midfield have kicked 34 goals.
When our forwards go missing in parts of the game we don't have players like Dal, Hayes, Ball or Joey kicking a goal or two to keep the scoreboard ticking.

To say we are only going to head south at this stage is a little extreme IMO

Have a little faith! We are winning games and winning close games. Its the close games you REALLY need to win.


Go Saints!

OK so lets take all that now and look at who weve beaten up.

Carlton....ahh,......young developing side
Essendon....ahh...young developing side...
Richmond (just)......ahh....you get the point

oh wait...we beat Sydney in Melbourne AFTER they also had the last shot on goal to win the game and missed????????

It aint all just gonna "click" magically....its time to snap out of the 2004 dream - we need some change starting with forwards like Gehrig and then in the midfield forsome run/carry and goal scoring ability.

[Sainternist]

Hey Teflon, it's the St.Kilda FC. When have we ever not had issues?

[CURLY]

Sorry I disagree.

Lets look at it from the other side of the fence just for a second.

We are not playing great footy at the moment and to this point in the season we have not had the whole team firing at once yet we still have managed 4 wins out of 7.

It only takes confidence and some form and we became a very good side. Not an average side as we are at the moment.

This season we have had players up and down with form.
Players that I beleive are key to winning games week in week out.
Dal Santo, Gram, Kosi and Goose just to name a few.

Also our kicking at goal has been much below average this season. Kicking straight will make a huge difference which will add more scoreboard pressure not only will it make it harder on the other side, but it will add a bucket load of confidence to our players.
With confidence means players will take more risks and will run more with the ball (that is almost a given)

The biggest problem is our midfielders are not kicking enough goals,
after 7 rounds our midfield have kicked 11 goals. You take a look at Geelong their midfield have kicked 34 goals.
When our forwards go missing in parts of the game we don't have players like Dal, Hayes, Ball or Joey kicking a goal or two to keep the scoreboard ticking.

To say we are only going to head south at this stage is a little extreme IMO

Have a little faith! We are winning games and winning close games. Its the close games you REALLY need to win.


Go Saints!

OK so lets take all that now and look at who weve beaten up.

Carlton....ahh,......young developing side
Essendon....ahh...young developing side...
Richmond (just)......ahh....you get the point

oh wait...we beat Sydney in Melbourne AFTER they also had the last shot on goal to win the game and missed????????

It aint all just gonna "click" magically....its time to snap out of the 2004 dream - we need some change starting with forwards like Gehrig and then in the midfield forsome run/carry and goal scoring ability.

Hey Teflon Collingwood finished fourth last year winning those sorts of games. Were not playing well and 4-3 having played both of last years Gran finlalists. I beleive Lyons approach is to gradually peak as we did last year hence the playing of Goose Dempster Bakes Goddard while underdone.

[Dal_Santos_Gal]

OK so lets take all that now and look at who weve beaten up.

Carlton....ahh,......young developing side
Essendon....ahh...young developing side...
Richmond (just)......ahh....you get the point

oh wait...we beat Sydney in Melbourne AFTER they also had the last shot on goal to win the game and missed????????

Sorry Teflon, I would have much rather be ZERO and SEVEN
Please forgive me

It aint all just gonna "click" magically....its time to snap out of the 2004 dream - we need some change starting with forwards like Gehrig and then in the midfield forsome run/carry and goal scoring ability.

I never said the word "click" I gave a list of reasons to why we are only playing average footy.
1. Key players not in form
2. Midfield not kicking goals
3. Confidence and what happens when you get it (EG: Taking risks and running with the ball)
4. Our ability not to kick straight on the scoreboard


I suggest you re-read my post.

[joffaboy]

Hey Teflon, it's the St.Kilda FC. When have we ever not had issues?

lol - teffers point on paces is correct though. We are one paced in the midfield, although Armo is a bit quicker than i thought. Joey gets tagged out of it, And while Dal, Lenny, and Harvs are great they, and the hard working Luke Ball are not quick.

We looked a bit better tonight because our passes were a bit better but long term we need to find some pace. I hear Cousins is keen for a guernsey.

[Teflon]

OK so lets take all that now and look at who weve beaten up.

Carlton....ahh,......young developing side
Essendon....ahh...young developing side...
Richmond (just)......ahh....you get the point

oh wait...we beat Sydney in Melbourne AFTER they also had the last shot on goal to win the game and missed????????

Sorry Teflon, I would have much rather be ZERO and SEVEN
Please forgive me

It aint all just gonna "click" magically....its time to snap out of the 2004 dream - we need some change starting with forwards like Gehrig and then in the midfield forsome run/carry and goal scoring ability.

I never said the word "click" I gave a list of reasons to why we are only playing average footy.
1. Key players not in form
2. Midfield not kicking goals
3. Confidence and what happens when you get it (EG: Taking risks and running with the ball)
4. Our ability not to kick straight on the scoreboard


I suggest you re-read my post.

Sper me the indignatio cause someone rains on your St Kilda parade but your post was all about "confidence" and form which to me doesnt resolve the issue of peronnel gaps in your playing ranks.

Which player of ours can take the balloff a pack and with blistering pace race straight the corridor and hit a leading fwd on the chest? Gram???

Why cant we as a club EVER have the discussion that says "maybe we aint bas good as we thibnk we are" without resorting to pouts?

[Teflon]

Sorry I disagree.

Lets look at it from the other side of the fence just for a second.

We are not playing great footy at the moment and to this point in the season we have not had the whole team firing at once yet we still have managed 4 wins out of 7.

It only takes confidence and some form and we became a very good side. Not an average side as we are at the moment.

This season we have had players up and down with form.
Players that I beleive are key to winning games week in week out.
Dal Santo, Gram, Kosi and Goose just to name a few.

Also our kicking at goal has been much below average this season. Kicking straight will make a huge difference which will add more scoreboard pressure not only will it make it harder on the other side, but it will add a bucket load of confidence to our players.
With confidence means players will take more risks and will run more with the ball (that is almost a given)

The biggest problem is our midfielders are not kicking enough goals,
after 7 rounds our midfield have kicked 11 goals. You take a look at Geelong their midfield have kicked 34 goals.
When our forwards go missing in parts of the game we don't have players like Dal, Hayes, Ball or Joey kicking a goal or two to keep the scoreboard ticking.

To say we are only going to head south at this stage is a little extreme IMO

Have a little faith! We are winning games and winning close games. Its the close games you REALLY need to win.


Go Saints!

OK so lets take all that now and look at who weve beaten up.

Carlton....ahh,......young developing side
Essendon....ahh...young developing side...
Richmond (just)......ahh....you get the point

oh wait...we beat Sydney in Melbourne AFTER they also had the last shot on goal to win the game and missed????????

It aint all just gonna "click" magically....its time to snap out of the 2004 dream - we need some change starting with forwards like Gehrig and then in the midfield forsome run/carry and goal scoring ability.

Hey Teflon Collingwood finished fourth last year winning those sorts of games. Were not playing well and 4-3 having played both of last years Gran finlalists. I beleive Lyons approach is to gradually peak as we did last year hence the playing of Goose Dempster Bakes Goddard while underdone.

Agree Curley - Collingwood ARE flat track bullies. Heard an interesting stat on them today - so far theyve played 2 of last years top 8 and lost twice .....so how are we different?

Collingwood have the luxury of a "soft" draw annually with 18 odd games at the G also. We dont.

[clobba]

pretty much how I feel though said with less acid

[GeorgeYoung27]

OK so lets take all that now and look at who weve beaten up.

Carlton....ahh,......young developing side
Essendon....ahh...young developing side...
Richmond (just)......ahh....you get the point

oh wait...we beat Sydney in Melbourne AFTER they also had the last shot on goal to win the game and missed????????

...or the converse who has beaten us

Geelong ....ahh,....say no more
Bulldogs...ahh,....undefeated this year
Port...ahh,...away against last years grand finalist

when looking at the first 6 rounds, the optimists would think we would be 5-2, the realists 4-3 and the pessimists 3-4. The only game we perhaps shouldn't have dropped is the WB (and maybe PA). But compare us to Collingwood, PA and NM, all last years prelim finalists.

[Dal_Santos_Gal]

Sper me the indignatio cause someone rains on your St Kilda parade but your post was all about "confidence" and form which to me doesnt resolve the issue of peronnel gaps in your playing ranks.

Which player of ours can take the balloff a pack and with blistering pace race straight the corridor and hit a leading fwd on the chest? Gram???

Why cant we as a club EVER have the discussion that says "maybe we aint bas good as we thibnk we are" without resorting to pouts?

Clearly I can't have an opinion, Sorry Teflon I agree with you 100%
Is that better.

Honestly I gave my opinion, "the other side of the fence" to how I am looking at it... And you think that you are "raining on my St Kilda parade"


Don't be so cocky, because you are not "raining" on my St Kildaparade. I have an opinion and because I have gone against the grain on this topic you decided that i am in some sort of dreamy parade.

To think we won tonight, its scary stuff

And the answer to your question with the ball. JOEY!

[Teflon]

OK so lets take all that now and look at who weve beaten up.

Carlton....ahh,......young developing side
Essendon....ahh...young developing side...
Richmond (just)......ahh....you get the point

oh wait...we beat Sydney in Melbourne AFTER they also had the last shot on goal to win the game and missed????????

...or the converse who has beaten us

Geelong ....ahh,....say no more
Bulldogs...ahh,....undefeated this year
Port...ahh,...away against last years grand finalist

when looking at the first 6 rounds, the optimists would think we would be 5-2, the realists 4-3 and the pessimists 3-4. The only game we perhaps shouldn't have dropped is the WB (and maybe PA). But compare us to Collingwood, PA and NM, all last years prelim finalists.

Thats true George except Im comparing us to the best because I, like manyh others at the start of 08, had us as a genuine flag chance and to be that your expected to beat sides like Carlton/ Richmond....not make them look good.

And Ports form...?? regardless of our history, after they were coming off a trip to Perth - was there a better time to beat them at home???????

Hmm..I see Gehrig as a microcosim of our teams performance...everyone banging onm about how hes kicked 59 goals last year - have a closer look at who he gets em against and it mirrors our teams performance right now IMO.

[Buckets]

OK so lets take all that now and look at who weve beaten up.

Carlton....ahh,......young developing side
Essendon....ahh...young developing side...
Richmond (just)......ahh....you get the point

oh wait...we beat Sydney in Melbourne AFTER they also had the last shot on goal to win the game and missed????????

...or the converse who has beaten us

Geelong ....ahh,....say no more
Bulldogs...ahh,....undefeated this year
Port...ahh,...away against last years grand finalist

when looking at the first 6 rounds, the optimists would think we would be 5-2, the realists 4-3 and the pessimists 3-4. The only game we perhaps shouldn't have dropped is the WB (and maybe PA). But compare us to Collingwood, PA and NM, all last years prelim finalists.

Thats true George except Im comparing us to the best because I, like manyh others at the start of 08, had us as a genuine flag chance and to be that your expected to beat sides like Carlton/ Richmond....not make them look good.

And Ports form...?? regardless of our history, after they were coming off a trip to Perth - was there a better time to beat them at home???????

Hmm..I see Gehrig as a microcosim of our teams performance...everyone banging onm about how hes kicked 59 goals last year - have a closer look at who he gets em against and it mirrors our teams performance right
now IMO.

The way you make it sounds though, is that the sky is falling and that we should be prepared to skip the finals this year so we can get draft picks. Don't know about u but there is no way i would accept that. This list has that ugly word 'potential' the only problem is that we have yet to harness our strengths! When we move the ball quickly and effeciently we look fast and good it is when we play 'tempo' footy and are indecisive in our movement is when we look slow, hell that first quarter against the doggies sure didnt seem that we were slow!

[Dan Warna]

we have a list pretty much good enough to bludgeon sides down without putting in 100% or without following the coaches game plan, not that there is much of a game plan to understand or follow in comparison to other sides.

we are winning playing selfish solo undisciplined football.

that would indicate we have a tremendous amount of talent and no discipline.

sadly it seems so far this current coach has only been able to harness that in a few games and a few quarters in some games.

nothing wrong wiht the list wrt talent. you are not going to change the list and get more talent than we have now.

[cwrcyn]

Occasionally, throughout a game, you need to be able to throw a quick player or two into the midfield just to break up the predicatbility of the midfield group and give the opposition coach something to think about.

We simply don't have this option available to us. We are predictable up forward and we are predictable and one-paced in the midfield, relying on the same 5 guys all the time.

Who are the players we can throw into the midfield outside the main group, and let's look at the ones who have been going in there this year

Blake - moves like treacle and has no sharp vision or reflexes
L.Fisher - moves a bit faster than treacle
Birss - a cruiser with no burst speed
Armitage - no quicker than Ball
X.Clarke - almost fit's the bill, but not quite
Schneider - no speedster


Armitage is the only newcomer to the group

.