We as supporters have to decide.

[GrumpyOne]

What do we want out of our team?

Do we want a team that is continually thereabouts with a chance of sneaking finals wins?

Do we want a team that plays entertaining football whatever the cost?

Are we prepared to get pantsed every now and again in the interests of good footy?

Will we be demanding the head of our coach at the end of every second season because of perceived lack of success? Or will we let him get on with the job of producing a game of football that is entertaining to watch?

We are the club.

We determine this.

There is no doubt that supporter rumblings were the reason that GT and Butterss were pushed out.

Lyon is producing the type of game that revolves around preventing the opposition from scoring and then knocking a couple of lucky ones in to grab the four points. The Sydney model. Never thrashed on the scoreboard, but always a chance to fluke one.

It will probably make sure he keeps his job.

But do we want to see that stuff?

We have to decide, and then back it all the way.

Because if we keep on eating our own, as we have done since yabby left, we will spend another 100 years wandering the wilderness before we win our second premiership.

The choice is ours..... choose an admin, choose a coach, set a player recruiting agenda, and effing well stick to it. We cannot keep changing every three to four years and hope to be successful.

And once we have decided..... all supporters commit 100% to the plan for at least a decade. No wavering, whinging or backstabbing.

Only then will we be in with a chance of the big prize.

[The_Dud]

i want the team to be given the opportunity to show off there ability, let them be bold, let them take risks, let them play one-on-one, let them ATTACK

if we get done by 10 goals, so be it, we weren't good enough, but at least we know we gave it all we have

i'd rather lose 100 - 160 then 40 - 60....

[Mr Magic]

i want the team to be given the opportunity to show off there ability, let them be bold, let them take risks, let them play one-on-one, let them ATTACK

if we get done by 10 goals, so be it, we weren't good enough, but at least we know we gave it all we have

i'd rather lose 100 - 160 then 40 - 60....

as a Saints supporter I didn't enjoy the 80's much. What yuo are advocating may well duplicate that era for us. Don't care if we get samashed, just play attractive footy!

Posts like this on from the Dud is why your idea GO won't work. Which set of supporters' ideas do you follow?

[The_Dud]

i want the team to be given the opportunity to show off there ability, let them be bold, let them take risks, let them play one-on-one, let them ATTACK

if we get done by 10 goals, so be it, we weren't good enough, but at least we know we gave it all we have

i'd rather lose 100 - 160 then 40 - 60....

as a Saints supporter I didn't enjoy the 80's much. What yuo are advocating may well duplicate that era for us. Don't care if we get samashed, just play attractive footy!

Posts like this on from the Dud is why your idea GO won't work. Which set of supporters' ideas do you follow?

so you would rather be a boring, mediocre side, or an entertaining, exciting unsuccessful side...?

and who says we wouldn't be successful playing asttacking football? at least give them a chance

[Mr Magic]

i want the team to be given the opportunity to show off there ability, let them be bold, let them take risks, let them play one-on-one, let them ATTACK

if we get done by 10 goals, so be it, we weren't good enough, but at least we know we gave it all we have

i'd rather lose 100 - 160 then 40 - 60....

as a Saints supporter I didn't enjoy the 80's much. What yuo are advocating may well duplicate that era for us. Don't care if we get samashed, just play attractive footy!

Posts like this on from the Dud is why your idea GO won't work. Which set of supporters' ideas do you follow?

so you would rather be a boring, mediocre side, or an entertaining, exciting unsuccessful side...?

and who says we wouldn't be successful playing asttacking football? at least give them a chance

Who says it has to be one or the other?

I'm not a coach and I would humbly suggest neither are you.
Yet you feel you know enough about football that the CLub we support should strictly follow your advice. You know better, with very little facts, than what the Saints coaching panel does?

Unfortunately I don't have the gall to pretend I know more than the professionals who are being paid to make the necessary decisions.

Do you actually know what our current gameplan is? Not a guess, actually know?

Do you know if the players are actually performing the gameplan to the coaches' expectations?

I don't know the answer to either of those 2 questions.

What I do know is that an awful lot of posters on Saintsational (at least 99.99% who have never coached at AFL/VFL level) think they know the answers and the 'simple solution to all our current ills'.

I'll bet they weren't posting during the first quarters of the Sydney, Bulldogs and Geelong games, and the second/third quarters of the Carlton game when our 'gameplan' seemed to be working fine?

[saintsRrising]

Evidently when we are having high scoring quarters (even if there are too many points kicked) and the team is looking good.......it is not the game plan they are following.


When the players are hesitant and looking shoddy with dreadful footskills and execution....it is the gameplan the players are following.


?????????????

[The_Dud]

so ur basing our gameplan on what you've seen in 5 quarters out of 24...?

i've watched Ross and our team for a year and 6 rounds, and i've watched every other team in that same time

its quite obvious the way we play

we don't play the type of football that is successfull in 2006/07, we play the kind that was in 2005

its not a coincidence that we are the lowest scoring side in the comp...

you don't have to be a AFL coach to see we areone of the most defensive teams in the comp, and all the successful teams play attacking football

[Mr Magic]

Evidently when we are having high scoring quarters (even if there are too many points kicked) and the team is looking good.......it is not the game plan they are following.


When the players are hesitant and looking shoddy with dreadful footskills and execution....it is the gameplan the players are following.


?????????????

I think you have it pegged sRr.

It is quite obvious to all of us in fandom that those quarters when the team is looking good, all the players are deliberately defying the coach by not playing to the gameplan (whatever we have deemed it to be?).

It is only after he (and the rest of the caoching panel) admonish them for scoring too heavily and playing too attractive footy, that they heed the coaches' instructions and revert to the gameplan (the one designed to lose us the game.

[The_Dud]

Evidently when we are having high scoring quarters (even if there are too many points kicked) and the team is looking good.......it is not the game plan they are following.


When the players are hesitant and looking shoddy with dreadful footskills and execution....it is the gameplan the players are following.


?????????????

I think you have it pegged sRr.

It is quite obvious to all of us in fandom that those quarters when the team is looking good, all the players are deliberately defying the coach by not playing to the gameplan (whatever we have deemed it to be?).

It is only after he (and the rest of the caoching panel) admonish them for scoring too heavily and playing too attractive footy, that they heed the coaches' instructions and revert to the gameplan (the one designed to lose us the game.

maybe those elusive quarters are more due to the opposition team playing badly then us playing well.....

[plugger66]

so ur basing our gameplan on what you've seen in 5 quarters out of 24...?

i've watched Ross and our team for a year and 6 rounds, and i've watched every other team in that same time

its quite obvious the way we play

we don't play the type of football that is successfull in 2006/07, we play the kind that was in 2005

its not a coincidence that we are the lowest scoring side in the comp...

you don't have to be a AFL coach to see we areone of the most defensive teams in the comp, and all the successful teams play attacking football

Correct. Last night was a disgrace the way we played. We controlled the ball early but never looked like putting scoreboard pressure on Port. It is how we play every week so it is the game plan. Poor skills maybe but the way we play shows up poor skills.

[joffaboy]

Evidently when we are having high scoring quarters (even if there are too many points kicked) and the team is looking good.......it is not the game plan they are following.


When the players are hesitant and looking shoddy with dreadful footskills and execution....it is the gameplan the players are following.


?????????????

lol -excellent point. Ross will have to get that attacking flair out of their system because according to the hysterics here all the gameplan does is defend and is boring

[Mr Magic]

so ur basing our gameplan on what you've seen in 5 quarters out of 24...?

i've watched Ross and our team for a year and 6 rounds, and i've watched every other team in that same time

its quite obvious the way we play

we don't play the type of football that is successfull in 2006/07, we play the kind that was in 2005

its not a coincidence that we are the lowest scoring side in the comp...

you don't have to be a AFL coach to see we areone of the most defensive teams in the comp, and all the successful teams play attacking football

Plus the 3 quarters against Essendon.

Do you believe that at qtr time against the Swans, Bulldogs and Cats, teh Coach instructed the team to stop doing what they had been successfully doing the previous quarter and to deliberately change the way they were playing to go defensive?

You truly, honestly believe that?

I don't and if I did I would be the first to ask questions of our Board as to what is going on.

Unlike you, and a number of other vocal disappointed posters seem to think, I believe that there are 2 parts to our 'gameplan' - one when we have the ball and another when the opposition has the ball. They appear to be 2 distinctly different sets of tactics.

But again, since I'm not part of the Match Committee/Coaching Panel, it is only an educated guess on my part.

[The_Dud]

maybe those quaters were so good for us because the opposition team had a poor quarter, not we had a good one

maybe once the opposition team catches on, we have no plan B at all

what frustrates me THE MOST, and also shows that it is a gameplan problem, is (and this was especially relevant last night) Ross REFUSING to play man-on-man and man up the spare one or two players that float in our forward line and continually cut off our forward movements then hurt us on the rebound

That one is ALL Ross

[asiu]

....but the way we play shows up poor skills.

agree bigtime with that bit

[aussierules0k]

[GrumpyOne]

I agree, we supporters really must decide what do we want out of our team, it's us that's letting the team down.
Really the club can only do so much, these decisions are best left with the fans. All we need to do is decide.

OK, I've decided we'll smash Tiggers this week, then go on and smash every other team this year.
Then... cos I, being a supporter have decided, we will romp into the granny and win the flag by 12 goals.

And so it will be.

Just call me The Decider.

Ok AOK, (alias The Decider), What are you going to do if we don't smash the Tiggers, if we don't make the 8, and as an obvious result don't get a sniff of the GF?

Call for RL's head? Spill of the Board? Cull of the players?

Or do we persevere with the style that RL is trying to introduce?

My point is that the impatience of our supporters is cruelling any chance we have of being a perpetually successful club.

[Behind Play]

My point is that the impatience of our supporters is cruelling any chance we have of being a perpetually successful club.[/quote]

Mate, I have been waiting 42 years to win another flag. With two new clubs coming into the comp. it is only getting harder. I am running out of time and patience.

[Rix4eva]

I think it's bit early to invade the coaches box, but I'm all for any clandestine operation that get's inside the inner circle when team selection is being made.

[satchmo]

I agree, we supporters really must decide what do we want out of our team, it's us that's letting the team down.
Really the club can only do so much, these decisions are best left with the fans. All we need to do is decide.

OK, I've decided we'll smash Tiggers this week, then go on and smash every other team this year.
Then... cos I, being a supporter have decided, we will romp into the granny and win the flag by 12 goals.

And so it will be.

Just call me The Decider.

Ok AOK, (alias The Decider), What are you going to do if we don't smash the Tiggers, if we don't make the 8, and as an obvious result don't get a sniff of the GF?

Call for RL's head? Spill of the Board? Cull of the players?

No, we must sack the supporters that didn't decide to win. The players obviously look to the supporters to see what level of mediocrity they accept, then play to that level.

[markp]

Something aint right here, and it needs to be fixed (preferably before this saturday!). I think it's more a player attitude and team unity issue than a game plan one.

However ugly the game plan and subsequent style of play is perceived to be (for the record, I hate it too), you'd think they were being asked to play a Rachmaninov concerto the way they go about it. The footy is still the same shape and the skills required are still basically the same. Players don't 'enjoy' playing that way? Stiff! It's their fricken job. We should be able to make it (or any reasonable game plan) work, Sydney seem to manage it (it nearly won them consecutive flags against a mighty WC), and I'm sure Geelong wouldn't make such a meal of it either for that matter.

I'm more concerned about players seemingly not playing for each other and not 'flying the flag' when a comrade is targeted or felled, than tactics being employed in the coach's box. Max screaming at Goose reminded me of the face-ripping Alves gave Max at another telling time for the club. It's just not a good look.

I think if we under-perform to the point that we don't make the finals (and perform strongly in them) this year, then everything should be up for review... we have the talent and the resources, it's reasonable that we set minimum acceptable standards of performance.

Let's hope that a team (or 2) that doesn't even exist yet doesn't win a flag before we do. We don't have limitless time or ammunition for this shot.

[The_Dud]

However ugly the game plan and subsequent style of play is perceived to be (for the record, I hate it too), you'd think they were being asked to play a Rachmaninov concerto the way they go about it. The footy is still the same shape and the skills required are still basically the same. Players don't 'enjoy' playing that way? Stiff! It's their fricken job. We should be able to make it (or any reasonable game plan) work, Sydney seem to manage it (it nearly won them consecutive flags against a mighty WC), and I'm sure Geelong wouldn't make such a meal of it either for that matter.

well if our skills are the problem (which i don't think they are) then wouldn't u devise a gameplan that doesn't rely so heavily on pin point chip kicks across and down the ground?

wouldn't u devise a gameplan that gave you the best chance to win?

[Behind Play]

However ugly the game plan and subsequent style of play is perceived to be (for the record, I hate it too), you'd think they were being asked to play a Rachmaninov concerto the way they go about it. The footy is still the same shape and the skills required are still basically the same. Players don't 'enjoy' playing that way? Stiff! It's their fricken job. We should be able to make it (or any reasonable game plan) work, Sydney seem to manage it (it nearly won them consecutive flags against a mighty WC), and I'm sure Geelong wouldn't make such a meal of it either for that matter.

well if our skills are the problem (which i don't think they are) then wouldn't u devise a gameplan that doesn't rely so heavily on pin point chip kicks across and down the ground?

wouldn't u devise a gameplan that gave you the best chance to win?

It doesn't matter about the game plan, according to RL's coaching staff the players are not training the way they are playing. Does that mean they don't listen to him and don't respect him.
Strange comments Ross, to tell the public the players are not doing what you ask. You should be asking yourself why?

[markp]

However ugly the game plan and subsequent style of play is perceived to be (for the record, I hate it too), you'd think they were being asked to play a Rachmaninov concerto the way they go about it. The footy is still the same shape and the skills required are still basically the same. Players don't 'enjoy' playing that way? Stiff! It's their fricken job. We should be able to make it (or any reasonable game plan) work, Sydney seem to manage it (it nearly won them consecutive flags against a mighty WC), and I'm sure Geelong wouldn't make such a meal of it either for that matter.

well if our skills are the problem (which i don't think they are) then wouldn't u devise a gameplan that doesn't rely so heavily on pin point chip kicks across and down the ground?

wouldn't u devise a gameplan that gave you the best chance to win?

I agree, skills are not the problem... there are just too many players under-performing (why is the $64 question).

But if I had a less skillful side than my opponent, I may try a more defensive game plan in an attempt to nullify his advantage.

[bozza1980]

However ugly the game plan and subsequent style of play is perceived to be (for the record, I hate it too), you'd think they were being asked to play a Rachmaninov concerto the way they go about it. The footy is still the same shape and the skills required are still basically the same. Players don't 'enjoy' playing that way? Stiff! It's their fricken job. We should be able to make it (or any reasonable game plan) work, Sydney seem to manage it (it nearly won them consecutive flags against a mighty WC), and I'm sure Geelong wouldn't make such a meal of it either for that matter.

well if our skills are the problem (which i don't think they are) then wouldn't u devise a gameplan that doesn't rely so heavily on pin point chip kicks across and down the ground?

wouldn't u devise a gameplan that gave you the best chance to win?

It doesn't matter about the game plan, according to RL's coaching staff the players are not training the way they are playing. Does that mean they don't listen to him and don't respect him.
Strange comments Ross, to tell the public the players are not doing what you ask. You should be asking yourself why?

It's not that strange.

What he his saying is that the side is directed to hold the ball and chip incessantly around.

However in the heat of battle the side finds itself overpossesing.

This could be a major problem or a minor one. It depends on whether you think the players being unable to play to instruction is a bigger problem than a game plan with obvious holes.

I think players can improve and a game plan is harder to tinker with, so I'm hoping that the players lift and carry out what is being asked of them.

Or it could just be an RL ploy to get the heat of the game plan??