Whats required to challenge?

[Teflon]

First if your looking for a "sack the coach" thread this ain it. If your looking for "sack all the players" this aint it.

We are 6 games into a season I really gave us a shot to challenge for a flag in and at 3-3 with tough games to come we need to get our skates on. So what do we do?

In my view:

1. GAMEPLAN

- We have to look at ways to move the footy quicker - less posession footy and play more corridoor/direct play.

- Can no longer afford a loose defender in our fwd line to tripple team Riewoldt - have to make them accountable

- Fwd set up has to become more dangerous. Id like to see X go forward and possibly Dal when tagged to at least ensure his foot skills are used in an area of the ground that exacts the most damage.

- Fwd set up needs time now to settle with 2 key fwd in Kos/Roo.....I dont see a role for Gehrig unless the games in Melb and Kosi has to ruck.....they must bge allowed to settle.

- Allen needs a go at some stage as we have to keep developing to go fwd - maybe worth giving him or Raph Clarke a role as a lead up HFF here...

2. PLAYERS

- Id like to see Maguire spelled unless theres an obvious match up - Ferguson must be given a shot at some point otherwise what are we doing retainming him?
- Armo/Geary stay in.....Jack Steven to get a run for at least a game or 2 at some point...
- Blake out - but only bought back in in front of Rix as "break glass in emmergency" ruck options.

- Future recruiting HAS to have as No 1 criteria an ability to hit a target (I dont care if you can rack 30 poss each week - players HAVE to be able to hit a target and score goals from outside 50)

Point is - even if we dont win a flag this season we HAVE to go foward and develop players. At present I feel we are sitting still (have been since 2005 IMO) and we must find the extra gear Geelong has found and overtaken us with.

thoughts?

[Otiman]

I'll rank our problems in order, and then elaborate.

1. Effort and Intensity
2. Gameplan
3. Ball Skills inc. shots at goal
4. Fitness/Pace




1. Effort and Intensity

Just isn't up there - Our players just don't look interested. We don't have the hunger to win, or the passion to play as a team. We are mentally weak and physically bullied in contests, we were blocked so many times by the port midfielders which gave them all the space they needed to make themselves look 3 strides quicker than us.

2. Gameplan

Our "accountable" style of footy just isn't accountable. We play a zone based defense, and when you have a marking contest of Lade vs Hayes, something is going wrong. We need to have the ability to at least send word out from the trainers to go man on man for periods at a time. Our forward thrusts break down across half forward, and something needs to be done about this.

3. Ball Skills

In an era when players are recruited with better skills than ever, we must have just taken this for granted and let players degrade into bad habits naturally. A huge step up in coaching in this department is required.

4. Fitness/Pace

We're not a slow side as most want to make out, as per point #1, we are bodied out of contests to make us look slower. We struggle to run out a game, but even though we have the fitness to run out games on occasion, or skill levels drop off way too quickly as we fatigue.

[Rix4eva]

We need to introduce kids, give them game time, develop and fast track them

I see this as an improvement on the many times tried and many times failed gop's who seem to have booked themselves a permanent position in the team, with Blake the classic example

No one can question Blake's courage and he tries his guts out yada yada, yeah we all know that
BUT

the fact is pure and simple Blake is one of many liabilities, who is taking up a place in the team, which would be best suited for right now and in the long term a young kid coming through

this week Birss comes in, FAIR DINKUM, what a another waste of time and space

Birss is another liability, we have too many already

simply cannot afford to carry so many slow, ordinary, poorly skilled, ineffectual footballers


I get the feeling that Lyon knows he's under pressure and this perhaps explains why he's playing it very conservatively with his team selection's, but IMHO, he's just delaying the inevitable with dumb team selection week in and week out

play the kids, nothing to do with waving a white flag and throwing in the towel

play the kids, becaus ethis is the only way we are going to improve

otherwise, we might as well book another midtable finish, once again, because with players, like Blake, Birss, L.Fisher, Dempster, C.Gardiner etc...running around that is our lot, the new Richmond

then throw in Gram, Maguire, Milne etc...

compliment that with the so called elite players in

Ball who the opposition don't worry about because his disposals do not hurt the opposition and he can barely kick over 30 metres

Dal Santo who is a magician at times with his sublime skills but seems to overdo the dissapearing act way too often

Kossie who could be anything, but "could be" seems to be the status quo

and we still rely on Robert Harvey way too much, this says it all really

not enough development for over five years and we are treading water

some might want to live in a time warp and overrate our list and the ability of some of our players like St.Kilda supporters generally do

but the facts are we are midtable at best, which is reflected by our 8th and 9th finishes in the past two seasons

the biggest problem with Lyon as I see it, is his inability to bite the bullet right now and play the kids

this is where our improvement will come from

maybe he needs to pretend that the season proper is the NAB cup, because currently we are in a holding pattern 8th, 9th......and if the current status quo is maintained, expect more of the same

we are looking at 11 or 12 wins, a finals appearance and 6th position at best

a finals appearance might give the flogs a semi, but it counts for jack shyte long term

and long term the only way we will win a premiership is if we start playing some new fresh young talent and developing them for the future


FAIR DINKUM

[Otiman]

I don't agree with the call to play the kids just for the sake of developing youngsters.

Play the blokes that give their 100% effort, week in week out, and can be relied upon to play good footy.

This means guys like Blake gets a gig every week, which most don't agree with, but he puts his body on the line, and if 22 blokes put an effort in like him every week, we'd be winning more games than we are now. Effort is infectious, if you see guys putting in full effort, it inspires you to do the same.

Football is 33% Skill, 33% Strategy, and 33% Psychology.

Ross Lyon is working on about 10% Skill, 90% Strategy, and 0% Psychology at present.

[Saintschampions08]

I don't agree with the call to play the kids just for the sake of developing youngsters.

Play the blokes that give their 100% effort, week in week out, and can be relied upon to play good footy.

This means guys like Blake gets a gig every week, which most don't agree with, but he puts his body on the line, and if 22 blokes put an effort in like him every week, we'd be winning more games than we are now. Effort is infectious, if you see guys putting in full effort, it inspires you to do the same.

Football is 33% Skill, 33% Strategy, and 33% Psychology.

Ross Lyon is working on about 10% Skill, 90% Strategy, and 0% Psychology at present.

Blake is a liability. Back up at best. You don't beat better teams by trying harder, you beat them by being better then them.

Geelong didn't beat Freo last night, because they tried 20% harder, they were just better.
Their foot skills were better, they used the ball better, they converted better.
They made the most of their chances.

A lot of times, that makes the difference between a top 4 team, and a 5-8 team.
Every team will have a bad day, but the teams that win when they have a bad day will finish better.

Geelong had a bad day, and won by a point.
They had superstars who stood up at key moments, and lifted their team.
They didn't have a Blake try hard and stand up, they had Selwood.

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

I don't agree with the call to play the kids just for the sake of developing youngsters.

Play the blokes that give their 100% effort, week in week out, and can be relied upon to play good footy.

This means guys like Blake gets a gig every week, which most don't agree with, but he puts his body on the line, and if 22 blokes put an effort in like him every week, we'd be winning more games than we are now. Effort is infectious, if you see guys putting in full effort, it inspires you to do the same.

Football is 33% Skill, 33% Strategy, and 33% Psychology.

Ross Lyon is working on about 10% Skill, 90% Strategy, and 0% Psychology at present.

Blake is a liability. Back up at best. You don't beat better teams by trying harder, you beat them by being better then them.

Geelong didn't beat Freo last night, because they tried 20% harder, they were just better.
Their foot skills were better, they used the ball better, they converted better.
They made the most of their chances.

A lot of times, that makes the difference between a top 4 team, and a 5-8 team.
Every team will have a bad day, but the teams that win when they have a bad day will finish better.

Geelong had a bad day, and won by a point.
They had superstars who stood up at key moments, and lifted their team.
They didn't have a Blake try hard and stand up, they had Selwood.

Pavlich kicks the goal and doesn't hit the post.

Dockers win is that coz they're better or tried harder on the night?

By the way i do agree with u

[vacuous space]

Honestly, what I want to see is this:

Centre

Ball, Dal and Hayes on the ball, Joey and Schneider running in off the wings. Schneids, Joey, Harves, Birss, X and Armo can play on the ball when the others are having a rest. No more Leigh Fisher or Jason Blake on the Ball - ever. Not unless the side is so injured that all the above guys are lost.

Ruck

King, Gardiner and Kosi in the ruck. Blake only in emergencies. I'd play McEvoy ahead of Blake. I never want to see Rix again.

Defence

Max, Goose and Sam Fisher sort out the talls; Baker, Gram and Leigh Fisher on the smalls. Goddard loose.

Forwards

Roo and Kosi. No Milne, no Gehrig, no Allen. Just send spare mids down there. That's it. Use Allen/Gehrig or Charlie if one of the talls in injured.

Gameplan
Shorten things up. Stop bombing out of Defence. Stop bombing over centre. Stop bombing into the forwards.

Move it forward. Through the corridor, up the wings, I don't care. If you're going to switch, do it fast. Don't hesitate. The longer it takes to get from one side to the other, the less effective the switch is going to be.

Win the ball, use it well, apply pressure to oppenents when they have the ball. If you attack them and they beat you, then so be it. But zoning off and watching them is just soft. Don't do that. Ever.

My lineup
S. Fisher - Hudghton - Baker
Gram - Maguire - L. Fisher
Goddard - Hayes - Schneider
Montagna - C. Gardiner - Harvey
X. Clarke - Riewoldt - Birss
Koschitzke - Dal Santo - Ball

Armitage - R. Clarke - Geary - McEvoy

[Saintschampions08]

I don't agree with the call to play the kids just for the sake of developing youngsters.

Play the blokes that give their 100% effort, week in week out, and can be relied upon to play good footy.

This means guys like Blake gets a gig every week, which most don't agree with, but he puts his body on the line, and if 22 blokes put an effort in like him every week, we'd be winning more games than we are now. Effort is infectious, if you see guys putting in full effort, it inspires you to do the same.

Football is 33% Skill, 33% Strategy, and 33% Psychology.

Ross Lyon is working on about 10% Skill, 90% Strategy, and 0% Psychology at present.

Blake is a liability. Back up at best. You don't beat better teams by trying harder, you beat them by being better then them.

Geelong didn't beat Freo last night, because they tried 20% harder, they were just better.
Their foot skills were better, they used the ball better, they converted better.
They made the most of their chances.

A lot of times, that makes the difference between a top 4 team, and a 5-8 team.
Every team will have a bad day, but the teams that win when they have a bad day will finish better.

Geelong had a bad day, and won by a point.
They had superstars who stood up at key moments, and lifted their team.
They didn't have a Blake try hard and stand up, they had Selwood.

Pavlich kicks the goal and doesn't hit the post.

Dockers win is that coz they're better or tried harder on the night?

By the way i do agree with u

My point exactly, Dockers played 20% better then Geelong for about 85% of the match. But it was the skill difference, where Geelong could hold on for 85% of the match, and then when the dockers released the pressure, they piled on 6 goals in 6 minutes.

Geelong didn't play well at all, they played on skill alone, not intensity or tough pressure, and they won.

Sure Blake will do well, because he always gives his 110%, every time, he won't stop trying....but sooner or later, he'll get beaten by someone who's just plain better then he is. Nothing he can do about that, and that's exactly what happens when we play the top teams.