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NeXuss wrote:All of this arguing is a total waste of time. Does it really matter who developed who? The fact is that while GT was coach, once our team got off the bottom, they played long, direct and exciting football. Irrespective of the result, when St.kilda played, their aim was to kick more goals than their opposition, apart from a couple of games which we are all aware of.
Look at our style now....it is terrible. I've only been to 1 game so far this year and I will not be going to any others. I saw the Carlton game which has been our best win so far. I remember early in the 1st quarter we had 17 of our 18 players in our defensive 50 metre arc. I think the only player not in there was Gehrig. He was in the square on the defensive side of the centre. Mind you, this was early in the first quarter.
I don't want St.kilda to play like that. I don't care whether we won the match. That is a crap style of football...it's boring, it's just plain stupid. This is not how you develop a premiership team. What's the point of Jason Gram winning the ball in the back pocket? When he looks up and takes a couple of bounces he then realises that no one is forward of the centre so he has to kick the ball long and to the boundary.
Is that the style or game plan you want to see? It's not what I want to see that's for sure. I want to see our half back line win the ball one on one then Gram streams out with 3 bounces handballs to Goddard who then pin points a long 55 metre pass to Montagna. He then plays on with a long kick to the square where Reiwoldt is surrounded by 3 defenders who do really well to spoil but the crumbs are brilliantly gathered by Schnieder who snaps truly off his wrong foot for a goal.
That's the type of footy I want to see. Not this stupid Sydney s*** that we have been playing now for 1 year and 4 rounds. The commentators call it accountable footy but I call it CRAP.
Since everyone has ignored my reply, I will post it as a new thread!!!!
Well there you have it.
Att : SENsaintsational
I dare you to tell me which parts of my little essay you disagree with!!! Go on, let me see some constructive criticism...you have the stage...go for it.
If I ignore you any longer will you start another thread to continue grandstanding?
I refuse to read stuff from Essendon supporters....
Poster formerly known as SENsaintsational. More wisdom. More knowledge. Less name.
meher baba wrote:
First rate post. At least, unlike most posters, you get that I and rodgerfox and some others (not Nexassssss) are not particularly pro-GT, but were simply never convinced that his sacking was likely to take us forwards rather than backwards.
It's the 'either with us or against us' mentality.
If you don't outright bag GT, or pull people up on posting misleading information, lies and exaggerations - you must be on the complete other end of the scale and love the man.
Many seem to be still trying to justify their opinions of his coaching when he was in charge.
He's gone. Accept that he may not have been as horrible disastrous as a coach as you thought, and move on.
NeXuss wrote:All of this arguing is a total waste of time. Does it really matter who developed who? The fact is that while GT was coach, once our team got off the bottom, they played long, direct and exciting football. Irrespective of the result, when St.kilda played, their aim was to kick more goals than their opposition, apart from a couple of games which we are all aware of.
Look at our style now....it is terrible. I've only been to 1 game so far this year and I will not be going to any others. I saw the Carlton game which has been our best win so far. I remember early in the 1st quarter we had 17 of our 18 players in our defensive 50 metre arc. I think the only player not in there was Gehrig. He was in the square on the defensive side of the centre. Mind you, this was early in the first quarter.
I don't want St.kilda to play like that. I don't care whether we won the match. That is a crap style of football...it's boring, it's just plain stupid. This is not how you develop a premiership team. What's the point of Jason Gram winning the ball in the back pocket? When he looks up and takes a couple of bounces he then realises that no one is forward of the centre so he has to kick the ball long and to the boundary.
Is that the style or game plan you want to see? It's not what I want to see that's for sure. I want to see our half back line win the ball one on one then Gram streams out with 3 bounces handballs to Goddard who then pin points a long 55 metre pass to Montagna. He then plays on with a long kick to the square where Reiwoldt is surrounded by 3 defenders who do really well to spoil but the crumbs are brilliantly gathered by Schnieder who snaps truly off his wrong foot for a goal.
That's the type of footy I want to see. Not this stupid Sydney s*** that we have been playing now for 1 year and 4 rounds. The commentators call it accountable footy but I call it CRAP.
Since everyone has ignored my reply, I will post it as a new thread!!!!
Well there you have it.
Att : SENsaintsational
I dare you to tell me which parts of my little essay you disagree with!!! Go on, let me see some constructive criticism...you have the stage...go for it.
If I ignore you any longer will you start another thread to continue grandstanding?
I refuse to read stuff from Essendon supporters....
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
That we still see posts dedicated to Thomas 30 games after he last sat in the box for us says volumes about his replacement and how enamoured we are of the new regime... including those who still need to spend time reminding people why firing Thomas was a decision welcomed by many.
.
It might also have lot to do with the constant bagging that Lyon has received right from his first press conference.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
saintsRrising wrote:It might also have lot to do with the constant bagging that Lyon has received right from his first press conference.
If Lyon hadn't produced such mediocre results - 13 wins from 26 games and the worst points for over that period - he might escape some of the criticism.
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
That we still see posts dedicated to Thomas 30 games after he last sat in the box for us says volumes about his replacement and how enamoured we are of the new regime... including those who still need to spend time reminding people why firing Thomas was a decision welcomed by many.
.
It might also have lot to do with the constant bagging that Lyon has received right from his first press conference.
SrS, just because people aren't happy with Lyon and his performance to date, doesn't mean they love GT.
Every time someone pots Lyon, doesn't mean you have to justify your incorrect assessments of GT as a coach.
NeXuss wrote:All of this arguing is a total waste of time. Does it really matter who developed who? The fact is that while GT was coach, once our team got off the bottom, they played long, direct and exciting football. Irrespective of the result, when St.kilda played, their aim was to kick more goals than their opposition, apart from a couple of games which we are all aware of.
Look at our style now....it is terrible. I've only been to 1 game so far this year and I will not be going to any others. I saw the Carlton game which has been our best win so far. I remember early in the 1st quarter we had 17 of our 18 players in our defensive 50 metre arc. I think the only player not in there was Gehrig. He was in the square on the defensive side of the centre. Mind you, this was early in the first quarter.
I don't want St.kilda to play like that. I don't care whether we won the match. That is a crap style of football...it's boring, it's just plain stupid. This is not how you develop a premiership team. What's the point of Jason Gram winning the ball in the back pocket? When he looks up and takes a couple of bounces he then realises that no one is forward of the centre so he has to kick the ball long and to the boundary.
Is that the style or game plan you want to see? It's not what I want to see that's for sure. I want to see our half back line win the ball one on one then Gram streams out with 3 bounces handballs to Goddard who then pin points a long 55 metre pass to Montagna. He then plays on with a long kick to the square where Reiwoldt is surrounded by 3 defenders who do really well to spoil but the crumbs are brilliantly gathered by Schnieder who snaps truly off his wrong foot for a goal.
That's the type of footy I want to see. Not this stupid Sydney s*** that we have been playing now for 1 year and 4 rounds. The commentators call it accountable footy but I call it CRAP.
Since everyone has ignored my reply, I will post it as a new thread!!!!
Well there you have it.
Att : SENsaintsational
I dare you to tell me which parts of my little essay you disagree with!!! Go on, let me see some constructive criticism...you have the stage...go for it.
If I ignore you any longer will you start another thread to continue grandstanding?
I refuse to read stuff from Essendon supporters....
What a cop out, what a friken soft @#$K
Oh, true colours show out.
You are not going to renew membership, not going to games, have a history of packing up your bat and ball and going to Essendon....and you call me soft.
Priceless.
You should take this act to the comedy festival.
Poster formerly known as SENsaintsational. More wisdom. More knowledge. Less name.
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
That we still see posts dedicated to Thomas 30 games after he last sat in the box for us says volumes about his replacement and how enamoured we are of the new regime... including those who still need to spend time reminding people why firing Thomas was a decision welcomed by many.
.
It might also have lot to do with the constant bagging that Lyon has received right from his first press conference.
Was that the press conference in which he gave the first sign of his inspirational qualities and the profound enthusiasm he has brought to the role in his classic statement "I never sought this job"??
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
spert wrote:Who was the last coach who got us into a Grand final -it wasn't GT or RL. Let's introduce Stan Alves to the argument..just for some variation.
OK. Offered his resignation to the players early in 1997. The players backed him as coach. He backed them as players. They took the game on and made a grand final.
In 1998 some of the players were unhappy with the nature of some of his sprays and ran to the president. Plymton would rather be mates with the players so instead of telling them to get on with it he sympathised. The slide had started. Lost a final badly against Melbourne and a close one up in Sydney. Had lost the players. Got the sack.
His success was backing the players to take it on. To back themselves.
His downfall was the president making decions on personal issues not football issues.
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
That we still see posts dedicated to Thomas 30 games after he last sat in the box for us says volumes about his replacement and how enamoured we are of the new regime... including those who still need to spend time reminding people why firing Thomas was a decision welcomed by many.
.
It might also have lot to do with the constant bagging that Lyon has received right from his first press conference.
Was that the press conference in which he gave the first sign of his inspirational qualities and the profound enthusiasm he has brought to the role in his classic statement "I never sought this job"??
As I said...RL has been bagged from Day 1....in the main for little more reason that some did not want his predesessor to have gone.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
That we still see posts dedicated to Thomas 30 games after he last sat in the box for us says volumes about his replacement and how enamoured we are of the new regime... including those who still need to spend time reminding people why firing Thomas was a decision welcomed by many.
.
It might also have lot to do with the constant bagging that Lyon has received right from his first press conference.
Was that the press conference in which he gave the first sign of his inspirational qualities and the profound enthusiasm he has brought to the role in his classic statement "I never sought this job"??
As I said...RL has been bagged from Day 1....in the main for little more reason that some did not want his predesessor to have gone.
Bagged by who. As far as I can recall he has had a dream ride in the media considering our form.
plugger66 wrote:
Bagged by who. As far as I can recall he has had a dream ride in the media considering our form.
Bagged by posters on this forum I believe sRr is referring to. Specifically those who were severely pissed off that Thomas was sacked.
Media has been thus far, fairly neutral I think. Only this week have there been people like Healy, Voss and Connolly starting to point out some deficiencies in the Saints style.
If he can't, if the window closes while Lyon's in charge, history will say a mistake was made when Rod Butterss fired Grant Thomas.
Not necessarily. Not a mistake to fire Thomas. We were on the slide already. Remains to be seen whether or not the right choice was made in Lyon.
The core of the Saints list was entering their prime at the time the change was made. While some speculated (maybe more on here, I don't know) about a slide, there was hardly concensus that it was the case during 2006. A fair part of the media pressure on Thomas came from the perception of many that the "premiership window" was still open and Thomas was missing it as a result of poor selection and match day tactics.
Don't get me wrong, it's still well within St. Kilda and Ross Lyon's power to show that the right choice was made. While I disagree with you, for the purposes of the above, I simply observe that as respect for the Saints diminishes, even barring changes of opinion by you and I, the "grass is greener" mentality will raise the estimation of his predecessor in the eyes of the agnostics.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
plugger66 wrote:
Bagged by who. As far as I can recall he has had a dream ride in the media considering our form.
Bagged by posters on this forum I believe sRr is referring to. Specifically those who were severely pissed off that Thomas was sacked.
Media has been thus far, fairly neutral I think. Only this week have there been people like Healy, Voss and Connolly starting to point out some deficiencies in the Saints style.
Don't get me wrong, it's still well within St. Kilda and Ross Lyon's power to show that the right choice was made. While I disagree with you, for the purposes of the above, I simply observe that as respect for the Saints diminishes, even barring changes of opinion by you and I, the "grass is greener" mentality will raise the estimation of his predecessor in the eyes of the agnostics.[/quote]
Agree to disagree then about Thomas and no question you're right that if Lyon can't produce results, and soon, his star looks considerably diminished next to Thomas'.
If he can't, if the window closes while Lyon's in charge, history will say a mistake was made when Rod Butterss fired Grant Thomas.
Not necessarily. Not a mistake to fire Thomas. We were on the slide already. Remains to be seen whether or not the right choice was made in Lyon.
The core of the Saints list was entering their prime at the time the change was made. While some speculated (maybe more on here, I don't know) about a slide, there was hardly concensus that it was the case during 2006. A fair part of the media pressure on Thomas came from the perception of many that the "premiership window" was still open and Thomas was missing it as a result of poor selection and match day tactics.
That is precisely what happened. Plenty on here were leading the charge with that exact perception.
Oddly, not a single one has conceded they were wrong.
rodgerfox wrote:
The core of the Saints list was entering their prime at the time the change was made. While some speculated (maybe more on here, I don't know) about a slide, there was hardly concensus that it was the case during 2006. A fair part of the media pressure on Thomas came from the perception of many that the "premiership window" was still open and Thomas was missing it as a result of poor selection and match day tactics.
.......
That is precisely what happened. Plenty on here were leading the charge with that exact perception.
Oddly, not a single one has conceded they were wrong.
I was in favour of Thomas being axed and I still think it was the right decision. We were on the slide, other teams had us worked out, we had no plan B and Thomas's autocratic style wasn't building cohesion in fitness management or the relationship with Casey. As for the 'window' being open, I always thought that the current group have another few years of possibility at least. There is not however a core group of 20-23 y.o's coming along behind our established players who are reaching their prime and I blame Thomas fair and square for that.
rodgerfox wrote:
The core of the Saints list was entering their prime at the time the change was made. While some speculated (maybe more on here, I don't know) about a slide, there was hardly concensus that it was the case during 2006. A fair part of the media pressure on Thomas came from the perception of many that the "premiership window" was still open and Thomas was missing it as a result of poor selection and match day tactics.
That is precisely what happened. Plenty on here were leading the charge with that exact perception.
Oddly, not a single one has conceded they were wrong.[/quot
e]
I was in favour of Thomas being axed and I still think it was the right decision. We were on the slide, other teams had us worked out, we had no plan B and Thomas's autocratic style wasn't building cohesion in fitness management or the relationship with Casey. As for the 'window' being open, I always thought that the current group have another few years of possibility at least. There is not however a core group of 20-23 y.o's coming along behind our established players who are reaching their prime and I blame Thomas fair and square for that.
Why were we on the slide?
To overcome our injuries GT gave us the lightest pre-season any team ever had in 2006. And it cost him his job because it did not work.
But regardless we were still a real force in 2006. Its amazing that we could win 10 of last 13 games and for the later part we were carrrying X, Raph, Kosi and Hamill who we needed to win the premiership but were severely under done.
We still only lost to Melbourne because we had 4 players gone by half time.
That was with a team the majority who were 23 years or younger. My major problem is that under RL only BJ, Chips and Monty have gone forward. The rest have stagnated or gone backwards.
