Changes vs Essendon

[meher baba]

Reading this thread makes me feel like I have ingested some illegal substances.

The consensus seems to be that we need an increase in pace and skill, but also for the likes of iora, Harves, Dal, C Jones and Gram to be dropped and M Gardiner (about as pacy as a Sherman tank) and Armo (marginally quicker than Gardi) or even Birss (slow and largely devoid of skills) to be brought in.

Apparently Charlie Gardiner is the answer too. We clearly would have been much closer to Geelong if we had selected players who weren't regularly good enough even to make emergency list at that club.

We are also worried about goalkicking accuracy, but seem universally to want to rid ourselves of our one reliable kicker - Gehrig - and even perhaps to delist him.

Get this straight: we didn't lose the game yesterday at the selection table. We lost it in the coach's box, on the training paddock and in front of the sticks (and Ray Chamberlain and his maggot mates didn't help much either).

The team we had on the ground yesterday was pretty close to the best we could field. I much prefer having Kosi as second ruckman than to have both King and Gardi in the 22 (I'm neutral as to which of the latter two are better: they both have their pluses and minuses).

Despite what I said earlier, I think C Gardiner for Fiora might be worth a try, as Fiora really hasn't reproduced his 2007 form in the first four games and his goalkicking is shocking. Milne could be sent to a park for a couple of weeks to practice his set shots and Schneider given a go in his role. And I would flirt with the idea of bringing Gwilt in for his ability to use his body to unsettle opponents (something we saw precious little of yesterday arvo).

But the #1 priority for this team is goal kicking practice: goodness knows what we were doing over the off-season.

The #2 priority is to position the players who can kick accurately for goal (Gehrig, Riewoldt, Schneider, Joey, perhaps Dal) in positions in which they can mark the ball and don't run them ragged playing "accountability football" so that they are too exhausted to concentrate on their set shots when they get them.

The #3 priority is finding some players who can put pressure on our opponents when they are trying to rebound. I'd have a go at giving Schneider and Gwilt this assignment.

We created more chances than Geelong yesterday. And a higher proportion of these were from open play, as opposed to the vast number of free kicks awarded by the maggots to the Cats. There is nothing too much wrong with our defence or midfield ATM. Our problems are all largely about what happens inside our forward 50, whether we have the ball or not.

[mischa]

The #2 priority is to position the players who can kick accurately for goal (Gehrig, Riewoldt, Schneider, Joey, perhaps Dal) in positions in which they can mark the ball and don't run them ragged playing "accountability football" so that they are too exhausted to concentrate on their set shots when they get them.

I like that. Could've sworn Roo was running manically up and down the length of the ground and to the wings all day long in order that the team be competitive...we need a more even contribution!

[plugger66]

Just about everyone in this thread would not have seen the scorps game last night but they are saying bring in this player and that players and drop this player and that player because we saw how poorly they played today. Well say the guys you want to bring in played just as poorly in a lower competition as the guys you want to drop. Would we still want them in. I would think not. If we are going to replace players it must be for guys who have some form in the lower competition so unless we have seen that game it is very hard to know who to bring in.

[Ralphy]

why would u drop dempster?

he played a good game for his first game yesterday i would look at fiora,Gilbert,L.Fisher,Harvey(he is injured only reason),Blake,

[bozza1980]

out X Clarke give him a break from the knock and get him into the damn weight room

Is there anything anyone can do in the weight room that would ensure that they could get up right away from a massive elbow to the head??

I'm pretty sure there isn't, but you'd hope a bit of strength might see him less likely to be brushed aside from one on one contests.

[Spinner]

Drop Blake, C Jones and L Fisher.

We are going nowhere fast with these blokes in the team.

[barks4eva]

IN

Ferguson HFF
Armitage to replace Harvey
Schnieder if fit
C. Gardiner
Geary
Stevens


OUT
Harvey injured
Gehrig
Blake
Fiora
Dempster
Jones



Absolutely under no circumstances play Birss ahead of the following

Armitage
Geary
Ferguson
Allen
Stevens
Eddy promote him now

Playing Birss is like shuffling deckchairs on the titanic

[barks4eva]

Just about everyone in this thread would not have seen the scorps game last night but they are saying bring in this player and that players and drop this player and that player because we saw how poorly they played today. Well say the guys you want to bring in played just as poorly in a lower competition as the guys you want to drop. Would we still want them in. I would think not. If we are going to replace players it must be for guys who have some form in the lower competition so unless we have seen that game it is very hard to know who to bring in.

Buddy Franklin was struggling in the VFL, played him in the AFL and abracadabra


Sometimes it takes players to be surrounded by more class to enable them to lift their game.

Countless examples of player's struggling to get a kick at VFL level yet when selected at AFL level they make good contributions.

Also showing some belief, lifts players confidence levels, leave them wallowing in the VFL and they can have this sapped away.

I know this might be all a bit laterally challenging for you, but it's a highly relevant point.

Besides Ferguson was BOG last week and the kid has NEVER been played on a HFF where he played most of his junior footy.

FAIR DINKUM just give the kid a FAIR GO.

Perhaps he's not up to it, I do not believe this to be the case, but at the very least give him an opportunity to prove otherwise.

[saint patrick]

Just about everyone in this thread would not have seen the scorps game last night but they are saying bring in this player and that players and drop this player and that player because we saw how poorly they played today. Well say the guys you want to bring in played just as poorly in a lower competition as the guys you want to drop. Would we still want them in. I would think not. If we are going to replace players it must be for guys who have some form in the lower competition so unless we have seen that game it is very hard to know who to bring in.

Buddy Franklin was struggling in the VFL, played him in the AFL and abracadabra


Sometimes it takes players to be surrounded by more class to enable them to lift their game.

Countless examples of player's struggling to get a kick at VFL level yet when selected at AFL level they make good contributions.

Also showing some belief, lifts players confidence levels, leave them wallowing in the VFL and they can have this sapped away.

I know this might be all a bit laterally challenging for you, but it's a highly relevant point.

Besides Ferguson was BOG last week and the kid has NEVER been played on a HFF where he played most of his junior footy.

FAIR DINKUM just give the kid a FAIR GO.

Perhaps he's not up to it, I do not believe this to be the case, but at the very least give him an opportunity to prove otherwise.

Hawthorns Team of the centurys CHB Chris Mew struggling to a gig in Rosebud ones in the Nepean league is a fair example of what you are refering to Barks

[Eastern]

IN

Ferguson HFF
Armitage to replace Harvey
Schnieder if fit
C. Gardiner
Geary
Stevens


OUT
Harvey injured
Gehrig
Blake
Fiora
Dempster
Jones



Absolutely under no circumstances play Birss ahead of the following

Armitage
Geary
Ferguson
Allen
Stevens
Eddy promote him now

Playing Birss is like shuffling deckchairs on the titanic

His name is Jack STEVEN, there is no S on the end. Also, he is currently doing yr 12 at St Bedes in Mentone meaning that he is unable to attend any of the "Day" training sessions. He is definately a project player who won't play senior footy this yr. The same applies to Eljay Connors !!

[plugger66]

IN

Ferguson HFF
Armitage to replace Harvey
Schnieder if fit
C. Gardiner
Geary
Stevens


OUT
Harvey injured
Gehrig
Blake
Fiora
Dempster
Jones



Absolutely under no circumstances play Birss ahead of the following

Armitage
Geary
Ferguson
Allen
Stevens
Eddy promote him now

Playing Birss is like shuffling deckchairs on the titanic

Eddy just promote him and what have an extra player on the list. Only 6 changes. Couldnt get a few more in. Ferg play him HFF even though he hasnt played there for 5 years in any footy. And finally have you seen a Scorps game or should we just promote guys who are not even close to senior footy.

[Ghost Like]

IN: Armitage, C. Gardiner, Schneider (Geary if Schneider still injured)

OUT: Harvey (Injured / Rested for 2 weeks, misses trip to SA & freshens up), Gehrig (Needs to fire up & figure out if he really wants to be out of retirement) Fiora (Sadly out of form, has pace but not using it correctly)

[Eastern]

IN





Absolutely under no circumstances play Birss ahead of the following

Armitage
Geary
Ferguson
Allen
Stevens
Eddy promote him now

And finally have you seen a Scorps game or should we just promote guys who are not even close to senior footy.

Plugger. I take it you never travelled from Hawthorn to Cranbourne before you learnt to ride a bike !!

[Spinner]

IN

Ferguson HFF
Armitage to replace Harvey
Schnieder if fit
C. Gardiner
Geary
Stevens


OUT
Harvey injured
Gehrig
Blake
Fiora
Dempster
Jones



Absolutely under no circumstances play Birss ahead of the following

Armitage
Geary
Ferguson
Allen
Stevens
Eddy promote him now

Playing Birss is like shuffling deckchairs on the titanic

100% Agree....Thats the players that we severly lack...the Hamill, S Johnson, A Didak mould.

[Spinner]

Just about everyone in this thread would not have seen the scorps game last night but they are saying bring in this player and that players and drop this player and that player because we saw how poorly they played today. Well say the guys you want to bring in played just as poorly in a lower competition as the guys you want to drop. Would we still want them in. I would think not. If we are going to replace players it must be for guys who have some form in the lower competition so unless we have seen that game it is very hard to know who to bring in.

Buddy Franklin was struggling in the VFL, played him in the AFL and abracadabra


Sometimes it takes players to be surrounded by more class to enable them to lift their game.

Countless examples of player's struggling to get a kick at VFL level yet when selected at AFL level they make good contributions.

Also showing some belief, lifts players confidence levels, leave them wallowing in the VFL and they can have this sapped away.

I know this might be all a bit laterally challenging for you, but it's a highly relevant point.

Besides Ferguson was BOG last week and the kid has NEVER been played on a HFF where he played most of his junior footy.

FAIR DINKUM just give the kid a FAIR GO.

Perhaps he's not up to it, I do not believe this to be the case, but at the very least give him an opportunity to prove otherwise.

Agree.

It seems no players actually improve through the VFL Scorpians competition.

[Saint_in_SA]

We should play the kids ahead of our struggling fringe, finish in the bottom two and get some decent picks. No more of this finishing 8-9th - that is Richmondesque!

Even if it takes Rix or one of the many other GUGS that we possess to fake a long term injury to promote from the rookie list, let's do it! (maybe I am crossing the line now... hmmm)

With the system that is in place, there is no doubt that this kind of mediocrity is richly rewarded by the powers that be, no matter how much they dismiss such concerns.

Wasn't that long ago that everyone on here was going on and on and on about our newfound DEPTH and how GREAT our recruiting has been! Hail Beveridge! Remember that! Wow, how the tide has turned all of a sudden and a few opinions have changed on that subject..... makes me feel like a beverage..... (sips beer)...

Let's be realistic, we won three of the four NAB Cup games by a bee's diaphragm without playing great and we have been very average ever since.

[HarveysDeciple]

dropping Jones would be ridiculous.

Offers us genuine leg speed and worked his arse of defensively.

So many on chopping block ahead of him.

Out: Fiora, Blake, L.Fisher
In: Geary, Armitage, C.Gardiner.

[saintsRrising]

Wasn't that long ago that everyone on here was going on and on and on about our new found DEPTH and how GREAT our recruiting has been!

.

Perversely I think the big issue is not so much our depth players.....but rather than the thick layer of what we thought was cream...has so far this year proven to be a thin skim with many of our "stars by reputation" under performing.

The middle group of players are also a bit off the boil too.

The next two games will show whether they can lift or not.

The plus is that 3 of the 4 teams we have played are in the current top 4.

Hail Beveridge! Remember that! Wow, how the tide has turned all of a sudden and a few opinions have changed on that subject..... makes me feel like a beverage..... (sips beer)...

.

On Bevo...I spoke with a former saints Club Doc about a year ago.

He had many interesting things to say including on Bevo and recruiting.
He said that Bevo was a great one for spotting football talent BUT that
*he took scant regard for any medical history or problems (The Doc when he was at the club had to veto a few...and sometimes rather than be consulted had to intervene to make sure the players were properly reviewed.

*that other factors such as someone being a bad apple or having a poor mental attitude etc were not properly looked into and this often bit is on the bum.

His advice was that Bevo had a great eye...but could not be left to make decisions by himself.

After hearing this looking back at our recruiting with fresh eyes you can see the pattern of this.

I remember that St Mart for example jumped up and down about Sweeney being recruited due to his social problems (bad apple). When St Mart was certainly right.

and there is the nub of the probalem...someone like St Mart new about his issues....but the Club did not due another pre-work to discover it prior to drafting. They were too seduced by his Robo like skills rather than being fully aware of errant attitude.

But also horribly when you look back over our recruiting over the last 8 years you certainly see a recruiting trail with brilliance in it yes, but also yes a lot of bad apples and mentally brittle players.....and dash of application and work ethic missing.

[saint64]

My concern is around our lack of defensive pressure in the forward half. We won't beat the top sides unless we address this. Our weakest players in that area on Saturday were Gehrig, Milne and Harvey. I think it might be time for all three to be rested - replace with M. Gardiner (if fit), Schneider (if fit) and either C. Gardiner or Armo. Sorry Harvs - you will probably prove me wrong next week, but I just can't see you making that Premiership team.

[saint08]

i reckon the actual changes we will see this week are:

out : gherig, fiora, X clarke , harvey(inj)
in : Allen, Geary , Armitage, and C gardiner

Time for a new broom. time for some forward pressure. It worked in NAB cup.


then hopefully following week :
in M Gardiner, Baker , harvey and Schneider.

out depends on which of Allen, Geary , Armitage,C gardiner , C jones and leigh fisher are in form.

[midas_touch]

Out: Fiora, Gehrig, Harvey
In: C Gardiner, Armo, Geary (or Schneider if hes ready).

[Little Dozer]

One more chance for G-train but Blake and Fiora have to go. Don't mind who comes in as long as they have a fair dinkum dip and play for the guernsey. Blake has a dip but has zero football ability. Fiora has all the ability in the world but no passion or hunger for the contest.