Worth $600,000?

[Richter]

You guys are not comparing apples with apples though. Nick is a leadup half forward not a FF.

In the last five years he has consistently been in the top 5 for marks per game in the AFL -

2004 - 1st

2005 - 3rd

2006 - 2nd

2007 - 1st

2008 - 2nd so far

He has also been in the top 20 for goalkicking in those years too - with Fraser Gehrig ahead of him for St Kilda.

If there were stats for goal assists i think you'd find him top 10 for those also in the last 5 years.

Seriously there are many important questions to be asked about our team's structure and strategy than focusing on Roo's performance. The stats would suggest that we need to be getting the ball into Roo's hands MORE often not less.

[To the top]

The photograph in "The Age" of Riewoldt flying against 4 opponents in an attempt to mark is most instructive than this comment.

So where were our players?

And one of the players attempting to spoil? - Scarlett.

Let's ask some questions starting with why Riewoldt is put into such a position in the first place.

Pictures do not lie.

[krabb]

If we had 22 players with his talents...we would probably be heading for our 3rd premiership cup.

He's worth every penny he's paid...more than i could say for some others in the side.

[barks4eva]

If we had 22 players with his talents...we would probably be heading for our 3rd premiership cup.

He's worth every penny he's paid...more than i could say for some others in the side.

Exactly, well said, agree entirely

[st.byron]

The photograph in "The Age" of Riewoldt flying against 4 opponents in an attempt to mark is most instructive than this comment.

So where were our players?

And one of the players attempting to spoil? - Scarlett.

Let's ask some questions starting with why Riewoldt is put into such a position in the first place.

Pictures do not lie.

thought exactly the same thing. Roo vs. many is an all too frequent happening.

[Lennon]

And Lennon, if you don't want to have a debate and would rather just throw in generic insults p*ss off over to Big Footy where you'll find plenty of like--minded buddies.

I would've thought the Bomber Thompson line would have indicated I was simply frustrated.

And with the direction the "debate" in this thread was taking when I posted, I think I was justified in feeling that way.

I'd tried engaging in that "debate" earlier in the thread... maybe some people were being a little reactionary after the loss, but a post like this does not deserve a better response than the one I gave:

$600,000 for riewoldt?
you have got to be joking
every time Roo gets the ball with in 20m i dont know what will happen, will it be a goal? point? out on the full? shank it 70 degrees to the right? only god can answer that, but he is not worth $600,000!

Oh, and the by the way... bit funny to attack someone for "trading in generic insults" and be insulting yourself while doing it.

[bigcarl]

The photograph in "The Age" of Riewoldt flying against 4 opponents in an attempt to mark.

that would mean that three of our forwards had no opponent in the seconds leading up to that picture being taken.

[plugger66]

The photograph in "The Age" of Riewoldt flying against 4 opponents in an attempt to mark.

that would mean that three of our forwards had no opponent in the seconds leading up to that picture being taken.

Or they were still getting back from the backline after running down there to flood.

[bigcarl]

The photograph in "The Age" of Riewoldt flying against 4 opponents in an attempt to mark.

that would mean that three of our forwards had no opponent in the seconds leading up to that picture being taken.

Or they were still getting back from the backline after running down there to flood.

true. i meant to put that in.

plugger, how did you rate gilbert's efforts when used as a half forward? kicked a couple of nice goals.

[st.byron]

And Lennon, if you don't want to have a debate and would rather just throw in generic insults p*ss off over to Big Footy where you'll find plenty of like--minded buddies.

I would've thought the Bomber Thompson line would have indicated I was simply frustrated.

Oh, and the by the way... bit funny to attack someone for "trading in generic insults" and be insulting yourself while doing it.

Understand your frustration at what I agree was an over the top piece of vitriol directed at Roo.
Re the insults, posting "Your all tools, all of you" is a direct insult and you probably got a yellow card. So you should.

[plugger66]

The photograph in "The Age" of Riewoldt flying against 4 opponents in an attempt to mark.

that would mean that three of our forwards had no opponent in the seconds leading up to that picture being taken.

Or they were still getting back from the backline after running down there to flood.

true. i meant to put that in.

plugger, how did you rate gilbert's efforts when used as a half forward? kicked a couple of nice goals.

Did quite well but his kicking may still be a problem even though it wasnt yesterday.

[bigcarl]

The photograph in "The Age" of Riewoldt flying against 4 opponents in an attempt to mark.

that would mean that three of our forwards had no opponent in the seconds leading up to that picture being taken.

Or they were still getting back from the backline after running down there to flood.

true. i meant to put that in.

plugger, how did you rate gilbert's efforts when used as a half forward? kicked a couple of nice goals.

Did quite well but his kicking may still be a problem even though it wasnt yesterday.

he looks ungainly and awkward in his action, but looks can often be deceiving. can make a very effective half forward imo. try manning up both him and riewoldt.

[plugger66]

The photograph in "The Age" of Riewoldt flying against 4 opponents in an attempt to mark.

that would mean that three of our forwards had no opponent in the seconds leading up to that picture being taken.

Or they were still getting back from the backline after running down there to flood.

true. i meant to put that in.

plugger, how did you rate gilbert's efforts when used as a half forward? kicked a couple of nice goals.

Did quite well but his kicking may still be a problem even though it wasnt yesterday.

he looks ungainly and awkward in his action, but looks can often be deceiving. can make a very effective half forward imo. try manning up both him and riewoldt.

Isnt Rooy on the wing.

[bigcarl]

Isnt Rooy on the wing.

we both know that's not going to happen.

how about kosi at chf flanked by gilbert and riewoldt. a gun contested mark flanked by two quick lead up forwards? so instead of one go-to man you'd have three

[plugger66]

Isnt Rooy on the wing.

we both know that's not going to happen.

how about kosi at chf flanked by gilbert and riewoldt. a gun contested mark flanked by two quick lead up forwards?

Not enough skills below their feet IMO. No true roving player in that group.I am afraid the 3 talls is not going to work on our forward line with how slower the ball comes in which means Kosi must be the second ruckman which in turn means that either King or Gardiner cannot play.

[Quixote]

Isnt Rooy on the wing.

we both know that's not going to happen.

how about kosi at chf flanked by gilbert and riewoldt. a gun contested mark flanked by two quick lead up forwards?

Not enough skills below their feet IMO. No true roving player in that group.I am afraid the 3 talls is not going to work on our forward line with how slower the ball comes in which means Kosi must be the second ruckman which in turn means that either King or Gardiner cannot play.

No. Make the tough call, drop Fraser, play two genuine rucks and two very capable forwards.

[Lennon]

"Your all tools, all of you" is a direct insult and you probably got a yellow card. So you should.

Fair enough. It was 2am.

*shrug*

[plugger66]

Isnt Rooy on the wing.

we both know that's not going to happen.

how about kosi at chf flanked by gilbert and riewoldt. a gun contested mark flanked by two quick lead up forwards?

Not enough skills below their feet IMO. No true roving player in that group.I am afraid the 3 talls is not going to work on our forward line with how slower the ball comes in which means Kosi must be the second ruckman which in turn means that either King or Gardiner cannot play.

No. Make the tough call, drop Fraser, play two genuine rucks and two very capable forwards.

Well I suppose the question gets down to whether King or Gardiner give more value in the ruck than G does up forward. Not sure but as G has been great for us over the years I think he deserves one more chance. May not be an issue this week if Gardiner doesnt come up.

[sunsaint]

Yes
but the question should be what is the worth of a 3 gamer in Harry Taylor who ran with and matched Roo.

[To the top]

The questions to be asked are:-

1) Can Riewoldt bring more to the team notionally being named as a mid-fielder, able to make himself an option around the ground?

2) If he is used in such a role, who is our nominal target half-forward option and could Koschitzke fill that role?

3) Is there still a place for Gehrig in our attack, as a full forward playing from the square? Or is the run off him a liability too large in today's all ground game?

4) Is there still a place for Milne, as a specialist forward pocket and noting the questions placed against Gehrig? Or do we bite the bullet and give an opportunity to one of the leg speed players we have drafted (Howard, Steven)?

5) Can Goddard stand up in the mid-field, including for centre bounces, to give us the body mass under the ruck contest?

6) Can Maguire improve following his legacy of injury - and confidently lead the defence?

7) Can we not afford to use both King and Gardiner as our rucking options because of what they bring to that division (King's expertise and experience, Gardiner's expertise, experience, aggression and athletic ability)? In that case playing Koschitzke as a ruckman is not an option (which it is not in my opinion)?

8) How can we best use Ball - given a couple of shanks out of bounds on the full and Ball not making the distance running inside 50, we actually had more scoring shots than Geelong - recognising also that a point is a scoring shot at the other end of the ground because you have given possession away?

9) Is it time to review what Fiora and Blake bring to the team, and look at options with an ability to improve with experience?

10) Should we consider playing Riewoldt at full-forward to bring more mobility (and urgency) to our forward line?

11) Should the tasks set for Gilbert be more structured to assist in his development as the successor to Hudgden at full back, and is there another identified option as an alternate and viable full back (Allen?).

12) Given our back flank options (including now Dempster who was recruited from Sydney), can Sam Fisher play an alternate role noting he was a CHF when drafted from West Adelaide?

13) What is the development programme for those drafted and playing at Casey - and when do they get the opportunity to show-case their capabilities at AFL level - noting Collingwood fell into a hole a couple of years back because they did not use their list and have now rectified that mistake?

14) How can we maximise the skills of Dal Santo, to release him from the heavy tag he attracts as the perceived premium and most dangerous with the ball mid-fielder on our list?

15) How do we maximise the running rebound of Gram, who is now a target for other clubs because he is our running defender who can disrupt the defensive structure of our opponents? Have we some-one else who can compliment Gram with leg speed run from defence and who we can free up as the alternate if Gram is defensively covered?

16) As an extension of this, how do we best use the utility skills of R. Clarke? Can he be used to free Gram from the defensive application by moving Gram forward for periods (into the mid-field)?

17) How do we settle X. Clarke to give him the maximum opportunity to show his skills - should he play forward, mid or back?

18) Can we identify a 188cm/190cm mutiple goal kicking (and I mean hungry for a goal) forward, capable over the head and below the knees?

19) Why is it that Harvey remains clearly our premium deliverer to our forward options - and he was so missed after receiving the injury against Geelong?

[Iceman234]

I like your questions TOT and it is almost worthy I think of it's own thread.

The questions to be asked are:-

1) Can Riewoldt bring more to the team notionally being named as a mid-fielder, able to make himself an option around the ground? I would love to see Roo used in the middle more – as a tall midfielder and would only need to be in there for a few minutes at a time.

2) If he is used in such a role, who is our nominal target half-forward option and could Koschitzke fill that role? Leave Kosi FF – Charlie Gardiner in.

3) Is there still a place for Gehrig in our attack, as a full forward playing from the square? Or is the run off him a liability too large in today's all ground game? I love G, but atm I see him as a liability – but if Roo is played up the ground a bit more often, there would be a spot for G sitting in a pocket.

4) Is there still a place for Milne, as a specialist forward pocket and noting the questions placed against Gehrig? Or do we bite the bullet and give an opportunity to one of the leg speed players we have drafted (Howard, Steven)? Still definitely a place for Milne. Harshly dealt with by supporters.

5) Can Goddard stand up in the mid-field, including for centre bounces, to give us the body mass under the ruck contest? Yes but not just yet – let’s give him til round 14-15 to completely get back on track, he could be the X-factor in that crucial run home.

6) Can Maguire improve following his legacy of injury - and confidently lead the defence? Yes but see above re BJ.

7) Can we not afford to use both King and Gardiner as our rucking options because of what they bring to that division (King's expertise and experience, Gardiner's expertise, experience, aggression and athletic ability)? In that case playing Koschitzke as a ruckman is not an option (which it is not in my opinion)? If fit we should play them as the ruck combo every week. Leave Kosi at FF and give him a chance to go one out against oppo FB’s.

8) How can we best use Ball - given a couple of shanks out of bounds on the full and Ball not making the distance running inside 50, we actually had more scoring shots than Geelong - recognising also that a point is a scoring shot at the other end of the ground because you have given possession away? Have said in other threads, love his in and unders, tackling etc. He needs to set himself as the next Harvey – the best 20 metre lace out kick in the league.

9) Is it time to review what Fiora and Blake bring to the team, and look at options with an ability to improve with experience? Have been a fan of Fizz, but right now he’s struggling. Back to casey for a while. Blake tries his heart out but not up to our best 22.

10) Should we consider playing Riewoldt at full-forward to bring more mobility (and urgency) to our forward line? No, see above.

11) Should the tasks set for Gilbert be more structured to assist in his development as the successor to Hudgden at full back, and is there another identified option as an alternate and viable full back (Allen?). I thought Allen was being groomed as a forward. Gilbert is one who may find himself back at Casey for a wake up call in a couple of weeks.

12) Given our back flank options (including now Dempster who was recruited from Sydney), can Sam Fisher play an alternate role noting he was a CHF when drafted from West Adelaide? Didn’t know he was a CHF when drafted. But I would leave Sam alone – he is brilliant at what he does.

13) What is the development programme for those drafted and playing at Casey - and when do they get the opportunity to show-case their capabilities at AFL level - noting Collingwood fell into a hole a couple of years back because they did not use their list and have now rectified that mistake? I know nothing about them – so can’t comment.

14) How can we maximise the skills of Dal Santo, to release him from the heavy tag he attracts as the perceived premium and most dangerous with the ball mid-fielder on our list? NDS needs to harden up in the ability to break tags. His team mates also need to be aware of it though and run across the lines of the tagger. NDS – if being beaten – needs to gain an ability to then shut down his tagger, rather than let him run off him ala Ling.

15) How do we maximise the running rebound of Gram, who is now a target for other clubs because he is our running defender who can disrupt the defensive structure of our opponents? Have we some-one else who can compliment Gram with leg speed run from defence and who we can free up as the alternate if Gram is defensively covered? Leave Gram as he is for now, but tell him to back himself with his first option – he seems to be rabbit-in-headlights again, go with your first option Grammy.

16) As an extension of this, how do we best use the utility skills of R. Clarke? Can he be used to free Gram from the defensive application by moving Gram forward for periods (into the mid-field)? Not at the moment, Raph needs to play some good football at Casey and get some quality ball. Rabbit-in-headlights again.

17) How do we settle X. Clarke to give him the maximum opportunity to show his skills - should he play forward, mid or back? Mid and forward, but if it’s not working and we’re getting smashed take Kosi back and have X beside him ready for the back half crumb or handball.

18) Can we identify a 188cm/190cm mutiple goal kicking (and I mean hungry for a goal) forward, capable over the head and below the knees? Ummmm not yet. I was hoping Charlie would be given this role and let him have a few games to grow into it.

19) Why is it that Harvey remains clearly our premium deliverer to our forward options - and he was so missed after receiving the injury against Geelong? Because he is The Great Man and always will be. I want to see Bally groomed into delivering those classical chips into the leading forwards.

[The_Dud]

[quote="Iceman234"]Fair dinkum Dud, put your other eye in…

Captain’s goal at the 13 minute mark of the first? To give us the lead? LOL With about 107 minutes to go – yep a Captain’s goal.

Start of the second Roo kicked his third and final goal of the night – yeah momentum momentum momentum momentum etc etc etc …….

He then kicked one more behind – the one he shanked with us having a bit of momentum.

When Roo shanked that Captain’s goal, I said to a mate “Johnno Brown would have kicked thatâ€

[Iceman234]

sorry, i didn't know you got more for goals in the last quarter

Apparently they are worth six points as well as any other goal.

Captain’s goals are great when they come at the 13 minute mark of the first to put us in front.

They’re great when they come at the 2 minute mark of the second.

But that was Roo’s second last score til he missed that goal early in the last.

That would have brought us back to 27 down and a huge momentum swing.

FFS he’s my son’s hero and I have him on a pedestal, but he should have kicked it.

It wasn’t a 55 metre shot. It needed to be kicked and he didn’t nail it.

Didn’t see Brown’s shot v Collingwood, sorry.

But I guess the AFL cloned him for a reason.

[The_Dud]

so if he had have missed one of his early shots, and got the one in the last, you would rate him a better player or better kick for goal....?

how bout his 3 last quarter goals in the rain against the Bombers a year or two back to win us the game by under a kick?

how about him throwing himself in to contestes repeatedly ALL game against 2 or 3 opponets, or can captains only show their worth on the scoreboard....?

[Hard at it]

Riewoldt is an absolute gun there is no disputing that, but no way is he a better goalkicker than a guy like Fev. Lets not hang the guy on one shot, but kicking on the full from about 35m in the last qtr when we had the momentum is just not good enough. Those percentage stats dont really tell you anything, because that shot Riewoldt missed from 35 wont even count on the stats you gave. It also depends on how far out, or what angles you are shooting from. Fev has plenty of his shots from beyond the 50m arc so obviously its going to be pretty hard for him to have the same percentage accuracy as Rooey who either doesn't make the distance or is looking to lay it off when in the same position