Nick Dal Santo - 2nd Week in a row

[vacuous space]

i can't wait to see the breakdown of these regarding clearences and contested possessions

6 contested possessions and two clearances. Both down on his averages.

[n1ck]

Dal shouldnt be played in the guts.

Move him to half forward or half back, bring in Armitage, was in the best for the Scorps this week.

Hopefully Schneiderman will be back next week.

i say move Dal to Half back, drop Gram (he has been woeful all season) and bring in Armo. Gardiner for Gehrig, and Schneider for Fiora.


That is, if there are no injuries. Injuries change all the selections.

[The_Dud]

so he got 18 possessions and a third were contested

i can't see how this is such a terrible return playing on the best tagger in the game?

[Iceman234]

Dud, check the year on the tape you're watching.

It is supposed to read Round 4 2008.

I am NOT a Dal basher, but I can open both eyes.

Dal needs to harden up and learn to shake a tag, as elite players can do.

Ling flogged him today, because Ling IS an elite level player.

Dal is a level below him, thus he was beaten by him.

Ling not only tagged him, and blanketed him, but picked up a lazy 28'ish very damaging possessions.

At some stage also, Dal has to take responsibility for his opponent, even if it's him who's supposedly being tagged, and try to lock him down.

The last time Ling was beaten? Who cares, Ling is elite. FACT is he beat our supposedly elite player today, a player who couldn't come up and answer him.

[SuperSaint]

i can't understand some of what i'm reading

Dal has never been a huge ball winner, and he had 18 possesions (i can't wait to see the breakdown of these regarding clearences and contested possessions) and 7 tackles against the best tagger in the league, and people are saying he should be dropped?!!?

why don't we wait and see how he goes next week, without the number 1 tagger in the league on him

again, please, someone show me the last player to beat Ling

I am with you 110% on this, Ling was one of Geelongs best last year. Its rather ironic I think because it was only the year before 2006 the geelong supporters were calling for his blood. Saying he was too slow and the game had gone past him. Its amazing if you keep with it things can change.

Yes but watch Ling's workrate......that's why he turned it around. If and only if, Dal Santo also had such a workrate level, however I'm sorry to say he hasn't.

[The_Dud]

yes, Dal isn't in form, and yes, he does need to improve (who doesn't)

Ling is in career best form, in a team that is the best in the comp, and he beat Dal today

does Dal deserve to be dropped?
no
was Dal anywhere near our worst today?
no

there is a reason Geelong tagged Dal and no one else

if Dal isn't playing to the standard Ross wants him to, then Ross needs to be a leader and sit him down and fix the problem. Play him on the ball 100% of the time for 100% of the game and tell him he expects him to tear it apart

some of the statements about Dal in this thread have been way uncalled for

[SuperSaint]

Dud, check the year on the tape you're watching.

It is supposed to read Round 4 2008.

I am NOT a Dal basher, but I can open both eyes.

Dal needs to harden up and learn to shake a tag, as elite players can do.

Ling flogged him today, because Ling IS an elite level player.

Dal is a level below him, thus he was beaten by him.

Ling not only tagged him, and blanketed him, but picked up a lazy 28'ish very damaging possessions.

At some stage also, Dal has to take responsibility for his opponent, even if it's him who's supposedly being tagged, and try to lock him down.

The last time Ling was beaten? Who cares, Ling is elite. FACT is he beat our supposedly elite player today, a player who couldn't come up and answer him.

Good to read that there are others here that also see things for how they really are. We all want the team to progress but need to be honest in our appraisal of why certain players are not performing. Ling works his butt off and I applaud him for turning his game around and becoming an elite player. Dal does not have the same level of intensity and work rate. Today was a ggod opportunity to compare Ling's efforts around the ground to Dal's. Watch closely!

[vacuous space]

Dal shouldnt be played in the guts.

Disagree entirely. Even after two lean weeks in the clearance department, he's still third on the team in that area. I'm a believer in having your best clearance guys in the centre and he's one of them. With the exception of the doggies game, he's been winning enough contested ball. IMO Dal's wasted anywhere but the centre.

[The_Dud]

Dal shouldnt be played in the guts.

Disagree entirely. Even after two lean weeks in the clearance department, he's still third on the team in that area. I'm a believer in having your best clearance guys in the centre and he's one of them. With the exception of the doggies game, he's been winning enough contested ball. IMO Dal's wasted anywhere but the centre.

absolutely agree

if you want Dal to get the contested possessions and clearences, then put him where they are!

[n1ck]

You are trying to make him into a player he is not.

Put him where he can use his skills effectively and efficiently.

If that means he only gets 15-20 possessions a game off half back, but at 90% effiency, id rather that him get slaughtered physically, 20+ disposals at 60% andwe get clobbered in the guts.

Give him the time and space he craves to get and deliver the ball like we all know he can.

[SuperSaint]

Of course he should be played 'in the guts'. That way he can learn very quickly what it requires in work rate and effort to take the next step in his career because right now, he is not doing enough given the natural ball talent he has been blessed with.

Early in his career he was being compared to the great Ian Stewart and we all know where he made a name for himself.

[n1ck]

'Very quickly' ??

"VERY QUICKLY"?!?

Its been 4 years.

[The_Dud]

You are trying to make him into a player he is not.

Put him where he can use his skills effectively and efficiently.

If that means he only gets 15-20 possessions a game off half back, but at 90% effiency, id rather that him get slaughtered physically, 20+ disposals at 60% andwe get clobbered in the guts.

Give him the time and space he craves to get and deliver the ball like we all know he can.

so you complain when he doesn't win the contested ball and doesn't get clearances, yet you then say you want him played off half back????

you can't have both, make up your mind

IMO he should be played in the guts ALL game, and lets just see how well he goes

[n1ck]

Ya damn right and its a problem the coaching staff have to fix.

Not bagging Dal, I believe he should be used to his strengths which are not getting the contesting possessions, but delivering the ball lace out to leading forwards and occasionally kicking the odd goal.

I think he is better suited in a different position.

I am stating my opinion that he is not performing at his optimum in the middle.

By the way i never complained at any of his stats so i dont know where you pull that crap from.

[SuperSaint]

'Very quickly' ??

"VERY QUICKLY"?!?

Its been 4 years.

That is the worry but a backline position is going to make it more difficult for him to change his present playing nature. We don't want him to be reactive and putting him in the midfield will put more pressure on him to become offensive and hopefully a harder ball player.

[vacuous space]

You are trying to make him into a player he is not.

I reckon most of the people in this thread are guilty of that. Dal is never going to be Luke Ball. He's never going to dominate the hard ball. But when the ball's on the ground he's the second best player at the club at getting it and considering 40-60 percent of all taps go to ground, you want your best ground level players on the ball. In order, those are Ball, Dal, Lenny then Joey. Those four guys need to play in the centre.

[n1ck]

Lenny, Ball, Joey, Dal - my rankings for our 4 main midfielders at getting the contested ball and delivering it efficiently under pressure / duress to a teammate.

[Buckets]

so he got 18 possessions and a third were contested

i can't see how this is such a terrible return playing on the best tagger in the game?

Problem with that Dud is that half way through the 3rd quarter Dal's possession tally read 3 kicks 8 handballs and that was when he was on the bench alongside Hayes and Joey! It wasn't until the last quarter when Lyon's decided to move him that he got more of the ball. Hell even the commentators on AW were saying the best way to negate Ling was to drag him to the back line because that is where he doesn't dominate as much! He got 7 of those 18 when the game was dead!
Dal needs the biggest harden the &^%& up rocket because he is capable of so much more than what he has showed this season!

[The_Dud]

so he got 18 possessions and a third were contested

i can't see how this is such a terrible return playing on the best tagger in the game?

Problem with that Dud is that half way through the 3rd quarter Dal's possession tally read 3 kicks 8 handballs and that was when he was on the bench alongside Hayes and Joey! It wasn't until the last quarter when Lyon's decided to move him that he got more of the ball. Hell even the commentators on AW were saying the best way to negate Ling was to drag him to the back line because that is where he doesn't dominate as much! He got 7 of those 18 when the game was dead!
Dal needs the biggest harden the &^%& up rocket because he is capable of so much more than what he has showed this season!

well isn't that the coach's fault?

[vacuous space]

Lenny, Ball, Joey, Dal - my rankings for our 4 main midfielders at getting the contested ball and delivering it efficiently under pressure / duress to a teammate.

And you're basing these rankings on...?

Dal's been number one at the club for CPs for two years running. He's been the most efficient midfielder in the league over the last three years.

For all his touches, Joey has two more CPs on the year and one less clearance. Lenny has more clearances than Dal and Joey combined, but he hasn't been dominating the contested ball. Ball has. He's a genius. And he's moving much more freely this year than he has in quite some time. Ball and Dal are underrated, particularly and disturbingly by this forum.

Fact is, while we dominated the clearances today, we still got beaten at ground level. Dal is a ground level specialist. We need him where the ground balls are there to be won. He was limited by an AA calibre tagger today. That's not going to happen every week. Essendon doesn't have a matchup for him. Dropping him is insane to me.

[Buckets]

so he got 18 possessions and a third were contested

i can't see how this is such a terrible return playing on the best tagger in the game?

Problem with that Dud is that half way through the 3rd quarter Dal's possession tally read 3 kicks 8 handballs and that was when he was on the bench alongside Hayes and Joey! It wasn't until the last quarter when Lyon's decided to move him that he got more of the ball. Hell even the commentators on AW were saying the best way to negate Ling was to drag him to the back line because that is where he doesn't dominate as much! He got 7 of those 18 when the game was dead!
Dal needs the biggest harden the &^%& up rocket because he is capable of so much more than what he has showed this season!

well isn't that the coach's fault?

The point that i'm trying to make though is that he had 11 disposals up to half way through the 3rd for a player of Dal's supposed ability that is not good enough! Ling or no Ling he has plenty of time to try and negate taggers but has yet to prove he can do it!

[n1ck]

Lenny, Ball, Joey, Dal - my rankings for our 4 main midfielders at getting the contested ball and delivering it efficiently under pressure / duress to a teammate.

And you're basing these rankings on...?

Dal's been number one at the club for CPs for two years running. He's been the most efficient midfielder in the league over the last three years.

For all his touches, Joey has two more CPs on the year and one less clearance. Lenny has more clearances than Dal and Joey combined, but he hasn't been dominating the contested ball. Ball has. He's a genius. And he's moving much more freely this year than he has in quite some time. Ball and Dal are underrated, particularly and disturbingly by this forum.

Fact is, while we dominated the clearances today, we still got beaten at ground level. Dal is a ground level specialist. We need him where the ground balls are there to be won. He was limited by an AA calibre tagger today. That's not going to happen every week. Essendon doesn't have a matchup for him. Dropping him is insane to me.

last two years?

Lenny - knee, Ball - OP. Lenny did his knee two years ago and was killing the competition at clearances and contested ball until the injury. Last year he was just getting the miles back into his legs. We all know the problems Bally has had with his groin / adductor. No power in his legs, couldnt stand up in tackles, no burst of pace. How could he possibly dominate contested ball. This year hes getting back to his best.

Tell me who else could possibly have beaten Dal in those stats over the last two years. Joey? Hes only just established himself in the starting midfield over the last 2 years. Two years ago he was a skinny little kid!

I never said drop him. Never. I said move him forward to a pocket or a HFF or back to a flank, where he can play to his strengths and use his skills more effectively.

[Iratedebate]

The point that i'm trying to make though is that he had 11 disposals up to half way through the 3rd for a player of Dal's supposed ability that is not good enough! Ling or no Ling he has plenty of time to try and negate taggers but has yet to prove he can do it!

Correct. Dal's work ethic is deplorable. He inflates his stats late in games when the game is virtually dead.
DalSanto had 18 touches....... big f...ing deal, how many were damaging? Ling not only stopped Dal from having an effect on the game but he destroyed us the other way. If DalSanto is having a bad day fair enough, but that's when he needs to be working hard defensively. Allowing a tagger whose responsibility first and foremost is to stop his opponent, get 28 touches is an absolute disgrace. DalSanto doesn't work hard enough, how can anyone dispute that.

[devil saint]

The point that i'm trying to make though is that he had 11 disposals up to half way through the 3rd for a player of Dal's supposed ability that is not good enough! Ling or no Ling he has plenty of time to try and negate taggers but has yet to prove he can do it!

Correct. Dal's work ethic is deplorable. He inflates his stats late in games when the game is virtually dead.
DalSanto had 18 touches....... big f...ing deal, how many were damaging? Ling not only stopped Dal from having an effect on the game but he destroyed us the other way. If DalSanto is having a bad day fair enough, but that's when he needs to be working hard defensively. Allowing a tagger whose responsibility first and foremost is to stop his opponent, get 28 touches is an absolute disgrace. DalSanto doesn't work hard enough, how can anyone dispute that.

Agree entirely. The crux of this debate is that not only did Ling stop Dal from being damaging, Ling was damaging himself. This is where Dal had a bad game. He should have been working hard to keep Ling out of it if he couldn't get his own hands on the ball.

[sunsaint]

In the past I have been yelled down for saying NDS was lazy, and an outside receiver who should be kicking more goals.
Oh how the tide has turned
It amazes me how some players are protected species on this board and in the media while personally I will go into bat for any player that may not have the flashy skills but gives his all (Read Blake, CJ and Rix)
I have said it before but I have a theory about players who are "gifted" like NDS. They go through the junior ranks clearly so much ahead of their opponents, they learn how to coast. Thats fine at that level but when you get into the big league, for the first time you come across players who have been trained in how to stop you. And suddenly you struggle big time, and many never get past it. At this point NDS seems to be in this category.

I think R Lyon wanted NDS on Ling so may be he could learn something off the carrot head. Ling led NDS to the ball, ran harder in offence, played closer when geelong didnt have it and scored. All the things a true AA and league elite midfield player shoud be doing.

I dont want him dropped, that would be rediculous, but if he is not prepared to run out 100% of the game, it might be time to move him into a pocket, either forward or back.