Geez, you'd think we just had our 10th straight loss

[Oh When the Saints]

Yeah we got smashed for a half of football.

It happens. Even to the good sides. We did it to Carlton in '95 and they didn't lose another game ...

"Fundamentally football is about getting your hands on the ball." We got smashed in this area last night ... up to RL to figure out why and fix it.



But fair dinkum ...... it's 1 game out of 22. We have a 2-1 start to the season and have shown in patches that we can put together unbeatable football.

It's going to click for 3-4 quarters at some stage.


We've won 5 out of our last 6 and have some incredible depth pushing through which will almost certainly be included next week ...


Bit of perspective. Yes, it was bad.


But fair dinkum. There's 20 weeks to go.

[The Saintsational Man]

I think everyones angry at the way we played.

Whether it be our 1st loss or our 10th, the effort by both coach and players was pathetic, all we can take from that game was the first quarter.

I'm not suprised every1's angry.

[Oh When the Saints]

What does anger achieve?

[The Saintsational Man]

Not much, but the anger derives from passion.

Shows were passionate, as Metallica calls it;

"Healthy Anger"

Fair enough?

[Oh When the Saints]

Of course it's fair enough .... but raving and ranting and calling it the Apocalypse because we got beaten in a half of football?

I wish people got that angry about important things.

[The Saintsational Man]

Buddy.....remember for some people, football "IS" their life.

Many supporters spend money they really don't have on memberships so they can come to see the saints play.

Sometimes it's all they think about.

All they dream about all week.

[Dan Warna]

from being significantly in front to a substantial defeat is pretty demoralising.

had it been a close tussle from woe to go with the doggies edging ahead at the end, well thats fine.

but to be so substantially outplayed, outcoached, outrun is a message that st kilda has to significantly lift its game.

the fault lies across the lines for this one.

were we too cocky? were we too arrongant? did we stop doing the 1%, was the coach too slow to make the changes? did the coach make changes?

this reminds me of 'that game against hawthorn' under timmy, and also the game last year, where hawks adjusted for our play and overcame us, where we didn't change our play at all.

IMO we showed what we can do for 1 quarter, the rest of the game we showed nothing.

[Saintschampions08]

I think we've been on the verge of this for a while. 4 games under a goal, dismal skills at times, and the first quarter against carlton don't do much to help.

[backit]

We got beaten for 3 quarters last night, beaten for 1 quarter against the blues and break even in another and beaten for 2 quarters against the swans and break even in another. We cant win games by not winning the majority of the game, we have been lucky previously by being able to win thru important parts of a game and hang on. Its not a good sign going forward if we cant establish a winning edge during a game and keep the opposition out.

It may be early but there were signs last night that are enough to give concern even to the most optimistic supporter (which we all are or we wouldn't be venting on here).

[plugger66]

Of course it's fair enough .... but raving and ranting and calling it the Apocalypse because we got beaten in a half of football?

I wish people got that angry about important things.

Get it right. It was 3 quarters for a start. As for incredible depth, it is only incredible when you win some of the players didnt look that good last night and there were ni injury excuses and not much in the reserves or they would have been in the ones.

[clarky449]

This is unacceptable though we should be playing all 4 q's esspecially a list like ours no matter who we play we should still be playing ALL Q's if we play like the 1st Q for the all 4 q's we will match it with Geelong

[The_Dud]

maybe its becuase we've played poor the last 3 weeks, and like many said, if we didn't improve, as soon as we came up against a half decent side we would get found out

haven't shown any improvement from round one, i can easily see us being 2-4 after round 6 unless Ross drastically improves certain aspects of our gameplan

even my C Division coach could work it out, its called MAN UP

[Saintschampions08]

maybe its becuase we've played poor the last 3 weeks, and like many said, if we didn't improve, as soon as we came up against a half decent side we would get found out

haven't shown any improvement from round one, i can easily see us being 2-4 after round 6 unless Ross drastically improves certain aspects of our gameplan

even my C Division coach could work it out, its called MAN UP

I wouldn't have a problem with us not manning up...as long as we actually got some of the ball

[Dal_Santos_Gal]

its called lieing down, curling our toes up (as GT would say) and watching the bulldogs run all over us for 3 qrts.
Not even a yelp from our side.

You don't mind losing as long as your team puts in and loses only because the other side was better on the day.

You don't go to watch a 6 goal lead dissolve within 40 minutes of football and then get done by 6 goals.

St Kilda waved the white flag during the 2nd qrt and showed no fight for the rest of the match.

THAT is the reason plain and simple why allot of us are feeling bitter about last nights result.

[marksnsparks]

G'day all. As they say on radio, it's my first post so I'm a bit nervous...

I can't help thinking RL is a bit one dimensional. I was there last night and at quarter time I had a strange feeling of dread, when I should have been rapt. Why? Because just like against the Swannies, I knew the the opposing coach would change gameplan at quarter time and because we don't have a plan B, we wouldn't be able to adapt. I agree with a few other people on this forum that last night was bound to happen at some point.
Maybe it's RL's inexperience I don't know...I don't pretent to have any answers, I'm still learning the game myself, being a pom and a Saints supporter since only 2003, member since last year.

[Sam23]

its called lieing down, curling our toes up (as GT would say) and watching the bulldogs run all over us for 3 qrts.
Not even a yelp from our side.

You don't mind losing as long as your team puts in and loses only because the other side was better on the day.

You don't go to watch a 6 goal lead dissolve within 40 minutes of football and then get done by 6 goals.

St Kilda waved the white flag during the 2nd qrt and showed no fight for the rest of the match.

THAT is the reason plain and simple why allot of us are feeling bitter about last nights result.

Yup, spot on.

[joffaboy]

its called lieing down, curling our toes up (as GT would say) and watching the bulldogs run all over us for 3 qrts.
Not even a yelp from our side.

You don't mind losing as long as your team puts in and loses only because the other side was better on the day.

You don't go to watch a 6 goal lead dissolve within 40 minutes of football and then get done by 6 goals.

St Kilda waved the white flag during the 2nd qrt and showed no fight for the rest of the match.

THAT is the reason plain and simple why allot of us are feeling bitter about last nights result.

Yup, spot on.

So you two dont think they were trying?

They were trying alrigh, but the Bulldogs were just way too good.

I said it last week that we are way off the pace. We beat the bye by 40 points - so what, we fumbled bumbled, ran into each other , handballed to stationary targets, and generally played very poor football.

The coach knows this and said so after the game. He also knows that the Dogs, Hawks, Cats, and Pies are way ahead of us at the moment.

Our mids were smashed, and looke pedestrian after halftime. They are all one paced and dont know how to rove to King.

We have to be competitive against Geelong. We have to starve them of the ball and win the clearances.

I dont expect them to beat Geelong like i didn't expect them to beat the Dogs (well mabye after qtr time ), I DO expect a full four qtr effort.

Not time to cut your wrists, but even this early it seems we are destined to be an also ran this year, unless we can improve, and improve dramatically.

[spert]

A loss is one thing -it's how you lose. A good competitive game that results in a loss to us is tolerable, but a turn around like last night is pretty much like being beaten by 12 goals, and that is not tolerable -it's crap

[Saintschampions08]

its called lieing down, curling our toes up (as GT would say) and watching the bulldogs run all over us for 3 qrts.
Not even a yelp from our side.

You don't mind losing as long as your team puts in and loses only because the other side was better on the day.

You don't go to watch a 6 goal lead dissolve within 40 minutes of football and then get done by 6 goals.

St Kilda waved the white flag during the 2nd qrt and showed no fight for the rest of the match.

THAT is the reason plain and simple why allot of us are feeling bitter about last nights result.

Yup, spot on.

So you two dont think they were trying?

They were trying alrigh, but the Bulldogs were just way too good.

I said it last week that we are way off the pace. We beat the bye by 40 points - so what, we fumbled bumbled, ran into each other , handballed to stationary targets, and generally played very poor football.

The coach knows this and said so after the game. He also knows that the Dogs, Hawks, Cats, and Pies are way ahead of us at the moment.

Our mids were smashed, and looke pedestrian after halftime. They are all one paced and dont know how to rove to King.

We have to be competitive against Geelong. We have to starve them of the ball and win the clearances.

I dont expect them to beat Geelong like i didn't expect them to beat the Dogs (well mabye after qtr time ), I DO expect a full four qtr effort.

Not time to cut your wrists, but even this early it seems we are destined to be an also ran this year, unless we can improve, and improve dramatically.

Pretty much.

If anyones watching the Roos V Hawks game, you can see how much better they're kicking is.
Theirs a lot less fumbling. They run harder to create more space. But most importantly, they get a chance, they kick it well and use it.

[Beej]

Well-coached, well-organised sides don't lose games of football after being 7 goals up.

The signs have been there for a while now. Against Collingwood last year when we threw away a match winning lead in the last quarter. What about the Eagles at the Dome when when we came out all guns blazing yet somehow conspired to lose.

Only difference between last night's effort and the two I mentioned in 07 is that Lyon doesn't have a lengthy injury list to hide behind.

How many truly good performances can you count since Lyon has been in charge? I can count one - Banger's 350th - and we almost threw that one away in the last quarter as well. You could probably include our win against the Hawks last year as a good performance, but it ends there.

We have wonderful footballers. Sam Fisher, Max, Goddard, Ball, Hayes, Roo, Kosi, X, Gram, Joey etc etc... they are all elite - we know it, the
press know it, the bookmakers obviously know it. The only thing between
us and a flag is a coach who can get the best out of these footballers.

The unrest on the board is because we think these players are being wasted by mismanagement and ineffective tactics.

If this brand of footy wins us a flag, however unlikely it seems at the moment, we'll all gladly take it, but how many of us actually enjoy the style of footy we're producing under Lyon?

Ross talks about "playing to our strengths" and "attacking the game" - does he take us for idiots?

It's going to take a turn around of mammoth proportions to get us playing a brand of footy that can challenge the likes of Geelong and Hawthorn from here.

Would absolutely love to be proven wrong but I just don't see it under Lyon.

[saintsRrising]

We have wonderful footballers. Sam Fisher, Max, Goddard, Ball, Hayes, Roo, Kosi, X, Gram, Joey etc etc... they are all elite - we know it, the
press know it, the bookmakers obviously know it. .

Well I guess that depends on your definition of elite.

It seems to me your defintion is based on the players having at some time played elite football...or being labled as capable of it...rtaher than actually being elite in the here and now.

Gram had an elite year in 2006...but 2007...no afraid not....2008???? We will have to wait and see.

Ball...curently......no. maybe later in the year if he recovers ok from his surgery. He is way better than he was in 2006...but is not currently elite.

X....has never been elite.

Joey...had a great last year.....but elite? = No. Was very good last year. May become elite but currently is not.


Kosi?? Well yes he once had a streak of about 5 red hot games (definitely elite)...but after that I am afraid has been on the whole only a good average footballer.

Goddard. When struck down by his knee I think yes he was just about to become elite. Hopefully in say 4 or so games he will be.


So your etc etc elites is really just Hayes, Roo, Dal, Sam Fisher and Max.

Apologies to Banger who was elite, but is now just very good.

[SainterX]

This time 3 and 4 years ago we were classed as way better than Geelong? How have we gone backwards, I seriously doubt that Geelong have only gone forward, so where have we gone wrong? We pushed the Cats around, and surely nobody believed what Paul Chapman said when he said the better team lost the 04 Wizard Cup final.

[Beej]

We have wonderful footballers. Sam Fisher, Max, Goddard, Ball, Hayes, Roo, Kosi, X, Gram, Joey etc etc... they are all elite - we know it, the
press know it, the bookmakers obviously know it. .

Well I guess that depends on your definition of elite.

It seems to me your defintion is based on the players having at some time played elite football...or being labled as capable of it...rtaher than actually being elite in the here and now.

Gram had an elite year in 2006...but 2007...no afraid not....2008???? We will have to wait and see.

Ball...curently......no. maybe later in the year if he recovers ok from his surgery. He is way better than he was in 2006...but is not currently elite.

X....has never been elite.

Joey...had a great last year.....but elite? = No. Was very good last year. May become elite but currently is not.


Kosi?? Well yes he once had a streak of about 5 red hot games (definitely elite)...but after that I am afraid has been on the whole only a good average footballer.

Goddard. When struck down by his knee I think yes he was just about to become elite. Hopefully in say 4 or so games he will be.


So your etc etc elites is really just Hayes, Roo, Dal, Sam Fisher and Max.

Apologies to Banger who was elite, but is now just very good.

All those players, at their best, would get a game for any other club with the exception of Geelong imo. They're all potential All-Australians, I don't think I'm overrating them by saying that. The problem is bringing the best out of them, that's Lyon's job.

Best way to get the best out of your top players? By playing to their strengths. Lyon's not doing that. He's sucked their attacking flair away and is turning them into dire, defensive-minded footballers.

Bookmakers stand to lose a lot of money by pricing us at around $6 for a flag and I read somewhere that we're the most backed side to win the Premiership. Either we have a very, very good list or we are the most overrated side ever.

Which is it?

One thing is for certain, we enough quality in the side that we shouldn't be giving away a seven goal lead to lose a game of footy.

[Oh When the Saints]

How far does our patience need to extend?

Mark Williams coached the most talented side in the AFL for 3 years and kept failing before he finally got them to a flag.

Mark Thompson coached one of the most talented (and largely unchangd) lists in the AFL for 4 years before he got it right. And there were some shocking parts of that journey.


25 weeks into his coaching career, can we already make a judgment on Ross Lyon?

[Dal_Santos_Gal]

How far does our patience need to extend?

Mark Williams coached the most talented side in the AFL for 3 years and kept failing before he finally got them to a flag.

Mark Thompson coached one of the most talented (and largely unchangd) lists in the AFL for 4 years before he got it right. And there were some shocking parts of that journey.


25 weeks into his coaching career, can we already make a judgment on Ross Lyon?

Does not matter about the coach OWTS, but I do understand your point.
But we had the chance to win a flag back in 2004 and then in 2005, but really 2004 was ours for the taking and we slipped up, since then 06 and 07 has past.
We have been waiting 4 years ourselves.