Dal Santo HOW GOOD IS HE?

[rogerwa]

class act

[sunsaint]

Well said vacuous space and bigcarl!
If anything, dal santo is UNDERRATED.
Look how hard he is tagged, compared to any of our other midfielders.
Coaches fear him, other supporters fear him.
Like bigcarl said, vc's stats show that just because he's possibly the silkiest skilled player in the league, doesnt automatically qualify him to be only an outside reciever.
If he kicked 20 goals a season, he would be the complete midfielder.
I think we will see a fitter, stronger Nick Dal Santo in 2008.

Yeah but...if you look at pro-stats NDS is a loong way off http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/pla ... t=LT&fc=E6
but of the players listed in OP's top eight CP's
exlcude Tuck he is a KP backman most possies he gets are hard won.
exlcude Judd he is a true utility that can play any position on the ground.
Westy is an outsider
you look at Gary Ablett, Simon Black, Jude Bolton, Daniel Cross(out for 6 games), Brett Kirk, Daniel Kerr they are in and under players.
The original question was, NDS - under/over rated? And sadly for the poor kid being tagged a brownlow medalist before your career has even begun has been a big burden.
I agree and hope that NDS is going to have a big '08, all the pieces are in place for him to do so this year.

[bigcarl]

Yeah but...if you look at pro-stats NDS is a loong way off http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/player_rankings?.

interesting. those stats do tell a different story. where does one get reliable stats on things like this?

not that they'd change my opinion of nds as a player

[brown-coat]

Sublime skills of epicness.

When the tight tag is on he fades into an average player. Has to learn to run off the tight tags.

[bigcarl]

Has to learn to run off the tight tags

or we could give him a bit of help in that regard, within the rules of course. perhaps we could whack a tag on his tagger or at least make sure than every guy out there is aware of who is tagging dal

[vacuous space]

Yeah but...if you look at pro-stats NDS is a loong way off http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/pla ... t=LT&fc=E6

Pro-Stats have a different way of measuring CPs and I don't know how they do it. Just guessing by the numbers, I'd have to say that their CPs are based a lot more on hardball gets than the Champion Data CPs are. While Dal does quite alright when it comes to hardball gets, he's definitely not elite in that category. Most of the other ten guys I listed are.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Yeah but...if you look at pro-stats NDS is a loong way off http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/pla ... t=LT&fc=E6

Pro-Stats have a different way of measuring CPs and I don't know how they do it. Just guessing by the numbers, I'd have to say that their CPs are based a lot more on hardball gets than the Champion Data CPs are. While Dal does quite alright when it comes to hardball gets, he's definitely not elite in that category. Most of the other ten guys I listed are.

For mine, I want to see a lot more detail on how they go about things like player rankings before I take pro-stats over champion data. Going through the prospectus etc. CD is very transparent about the way they develop in interperet stats, pro stats delivers a lot of information that seems to differ from CD (especially around contests) but I find it difficult to interperet as I don't have the same context for it.

Which is unfortunate, as pro-stats is free.

For example, I have no idea what NDS overall ranking via prostats is meant to tell me (I suspect only that he's not in and under). I have no idea how they've gone about deciding what is and isn't a contested possession, so I have no context to infer their relevance to the way he plays.... using CD statistics, because I know they rate a contested possession as a value judgement on any possession acumulated (i.e. a player receives the ball via hardball get, looseball get, handball recieved (contested/uncontested) or mark (contested/uncontested)) and then delivers a percentage, we han infer that NDS is an inside player who wins most of his possessions in traffic, but who hue to low numbers for handball receives and marks is beatable via a good tag (i.e. you can't shut him down completely, but you can stop the rest of the team using him as a link player).

Which is all only a measure of how NDS wins his possessions, it doesn't even begin on how he actually excecutes them, which is where Dal really stands out.

Based on Champion Data, I believe Dal is a top flight midfielder that needs to overcome his taggers to be a Brownlow medallist. Based on prostats I have a vague ranking average of 57.4...

I'd love to be able to get more out of prostats, but at this stage i find the insert from champion data in the middle of the footy record more useful for updates, and the AFL prospectus the stats bible.

[terry smith rules]

never read so much c**p on this site

nds is read is a great player, has the potential to be a superstar

it never ceases to amaze me how

some people want every player to be everything, eg they want the silky skills type to become grunt, they want the grunt to become creative, they want the receiver in and under, they want the in and under to kick goals.

watch the game

not all players are the same, that is why we love the footy, a great team needs a balance of all types

a balanced saints side needs nds, cutting through packs, breaking lines, delivering, stepping and kicking goals from 55, we don't want him getting crunched under 3 opposition that is the job for someone else

fqf

[miss_xt]

never read so much c**p on this site

nds is read is a great player, has the potential to be a superstar

it never ceases to amaze me how

some people want every player to be everything, eg they want the silky skills type to become grunt, they want the grunt to become creative, they want the receiver in and under, they want the in and under to kick goals.

watch the game

not all players are the same, that is why we love the footy, a great team needs a balance of all types

a balanced saints side needs nds, cutting through packs, breaking lines, delivering, stepping and kicking goals from 55, we don't want him getting crunched under 3 opposition that is the job for someone else

fqf

Sensible post. Well done.
How good is Dal Santo...



Very good to look at!

[Zippy]

He has his flaws (accountability), but he's still awesome. Even the Harveys/Buckleys of the world have flaws

A quick challenge - think of five better midfielders in the AFL.

I can't. Maybe three or four. Judd (uninjured), Bartel, Kerr on a good day?????

[plugger66]

He has his flaws (accountability), but he's still awesome. Even the Harveys/Buckleys of the world have flaws

A quick challenge - think of five better midfielders in the AFL.

I can't. Maybe three or four. Judd (uninjured), Bartel, Kerr on a good day?????

Hayes.

[devil saint]

Bartel?

WE alone have at least two midfielders better than him - Dal and Lenny.